Indenial

That was the joke. Dropped frames aren't black, that's a display driver problem. You should have known that. And more vagueness and avoidance... it's obvious that I'm not going to get a decent answer from you, because let's be honest, you don't have it. I guess know enough, you're full of shit like I expected from the start.

Hmm.. In my head it sounded a little more funny, in a doctor cox kinda way, but maybe I'm more annoyed than I think I am, because I'm a bit tired of this whole discussion myself actually. Says you? Then explain how you're so sure that it's "dropping" frames. I've told you exactly how I'm testing, so you could check it yourself, but you're still expecting me to just take your word for it. Do you really think I will? Tell me how you know, because they don't have the same duration here. When I start both synchronized, MPC clearly finishes the vid before VLC with a time difference that about matches the framerate difference, so the amount of frames they both display should be equal. Only the speed differences seems to be speed. I could show test results, but it's your turn this time, especially since you're the one claiming VLC is dropping frames. I really want to end this whole discussion with some actual proof, so I can at least submit it to either VLC or MPC.

I'm not sure and I have no idea how to test that besides taking a longer video and sit next to it with a stopwatch, while also having a framecounter, but I don't really want to go through that much trouble. It's hard syncing an external framecounter with a player and besides, you wouldn't really know if you were just watching. Anyway, when I play 30fps vids in MPC and another player it does outrun it slowly gaining at least a noticeable time difference in sound and a little in video, but it takes a while and it only happens with some vids (maybe NTSC only, that could be it), most of them do play at correct speed. This was actually the first non-30fps that did this. I wouldn't be surprised if the MPC developers didn't even know about this, it's that subtle. Edit: you could download an MP4 version of FM from youtube, play it synchronized in both players and you should be able to notice it

Oh please, he's not a kid anymore, he can take it and otherwise they're crocodile tears. How about thinking: poor visitors that might needlessly changing their player because of his frontpage statement, or at least poor Ross for getting bad advice. There are people who do care and this argument is for them. I know this would offend the socials (hence my nickname), but it still had to be said. Now grab your lollipops and stuffed animals and go play outside again, chop chop!

You could at least try. If I'm wrong, I won't like it, but I'm not going to be a dick about it. I've trusted both VLC and MPC. I don't want to use a crappy player, so because of the staements here, I've checked it out. I never heard any of these comments anywhere else (search google), so excuse my skepticism. I don't care about being right, I want a good player. Let me start then. 60 second FPS test done with FRAPS on multiple players, including mediainfo data. Source is some mp4 vid someone send me (wanted a legal thing so I could link to it). Downloadable here (you need the downthemall addon) Official framerate from video data: 23.976 fps Testresults: MPC: Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 1445, 60000, 23, 25, 24.083 1446, 60000, 23, 26, 24.100 1445, 60000, 23, 25, 24.083 VLC: Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 1439, 60000, 23, 24, 23.983 1439, 60000, 23, 24, 23.983 1439, 60000, 23, 24, 23.983 Mplayer: Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 1439, 60000, 23, 25, 23.983 Jetaudio: Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 1439, 60000, 23, 25, 23.983 XBMC: Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg 1439, 60000, 23, 25, 23.983 General Complete name : D:\DOWNLOAD\50345844.mp4 Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : Base Media Codec ID : isom File size : 6.02 MiB Duration : 1mn 10s Overall bit rate : 720 Kbps Encoded date : UTC 2011-05-10 22:01:14 Tagged date : UTC 2011-05-11 22:01:14 Video ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : [email protected] Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames Format settings, GOP : M=5, N=12 Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 1mn 10s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 608 Kbps Maximum bit rate : 1 830 Kbps Width : 640 pixels Height : 360 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 fps Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.110 Stream size : 5.08 MiB (84%) Writing library : Vimeo Encoder Encoded date : UTC 2011-05-10 22:01:14 Tagged date : UTC 2011-05-10 22:01:14 Audio ID : 2 Format : AAC Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Format profile : LC Codec ID : 40 Duration : 1mn 10s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 109 Kbps Maximum bit rate : 133 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions : Front: L R Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz Compression mode : Lossy Stream size : 934 KiB (15%) Encoded date : UTC 2011-05-10 22:01:14 Tagged date : UTC 2011-05-10 22:01:14 My conclusion: VLC doesn't seem to be losing frames, but MPC is playing to fast, so it only seems to show more frames.

That V-sync thing was a hunch, I remember I had some strange results with it once. I didn't validate it, but otherwise I can't explain any frameloss, because I can't see it, measure it, find it by testing, with external or internal tools, or simply running MPC and VLC together with the same video, synchronized. There's not a single difference. How do you know? I can make similar claims as you, I've got multiple systems, ati, nvidia cards, so I can easily claim VLC beats MPC on all my systems too. Saying a program could be wrong is hardly proof that it is. It's like saying the flying spaghetti monster exists because I can't prove it doesn't.

That game seems to pop up everywhere lately, like it's being rediscovered. I'm gonna check it out too. A close call, but my winner is: With the purple tentacle as a close 2nd..

Your name is quite applicable in this situation... You're in denial of the fact that VLC is a shitty player. My nick is actually meant ironic. So, about calling me a fanboy, look up the term "projection", then your anti-mac signature. Give it a sec If I would choose to be a fanboy of anything (glad I left that phase behind me) I would choose XBMC. I love that player, it's just not something you can used a default player, considering it's a complete media center (you can't associate it f.e.). My previous version (1.4. something) and the latest. It's just 1%, so it's virtually unnoticeable, but it's there and since I've got bit-compared perfectly equal picture quality on both VLC and MPC, this tiny difference is actually placing MPC below VLC for playing these kind of video's. But.. the reason I'm putting it here is for the irony of FM episodes going MP4, being 30fps, used to be non MOD8 (pre-35) and VLC getting mentioned as the possible problem. Now, let me put something positive about MPC to show that I'm impartial: MPC supports more formats by default and has the ability to play incomplete files (well avi's as far as I've tested), which is why I like it. That, and the left-click pause thing, but that's just personal preference. I've got mplayer, mpc, vlc, xbmc, winamp, jetaudio, wmp (ofc), and probably more on my machine, but I consider both VLC -and- MPC as the top players, but neither of them is perfect. I don't have this problem at all, with mkv, mp4, avi, anything. Even when I turn "drop late frames" function back on. 0 lost frames on suckerpunch 720p mkv that's running in the background right now (20 minutes or so). Does your card have a forced v-sync setting? If that's on, it's likely the reason. I'm positive that any problems with any player out there is either minor, or caused by the videocard drivers/configuration and can be fixed with some settings. It's playing perfect here, that's why I'm sure. I remember that when I bought my previous videocard, a 8800GTS, I was also shocked with the horrible video quality, but changing some videosettings fixed that, so it wasn't the player.

Where does all this nonsense come from anyway? VLC is one of the best players out there. If any player has problems it's MPC, it can't even play MP4's at 30fps, it plays them faster. If a video isn't mod8 in height it crashes. And VLC quality is perfect unless you have a nvidia card, but that's easily fixed too: http://git.videolan.org/gitweb.cgi/vlc.git/?a=commit;h=b545e479ca5bad8fbde534a534dfe22cdfa80e3 Besides, even if you have MPC, you don't even need a codec pack. Both players have internal codecs.

This game is awesome. After playing during the daytime at first I realized that there's only one way this should be played: midnight, alone, total darkness and headphones on. I'm a bit desensitized to horror games too, but this was like trying a habanero pepper after being used to jalapeno's. Let's just say I woke the neighbors a few times. If it's too much, ease into it by playing resident evil first, then silent hill, then this.

"..The MP4 file format was later developed as an industry standard, the developments was greatly based on the MOV file format to the point that they were exactly identical at first. The changes that were introduced were very minor and mostly involved data tagging information." And MP4 isn't that open btw, it's an industry standard and has patents. Don't just make statements without checking them first please, it only makes things more confusing.

MOV and MP4 are basically the same thing

BTW, youtube already handles the portable-player version: All you need is a yt-download tool and there's dozens of those. Examples: a browser userscript like yousabletube (see picture), a tool like youtubedownloader, or a site like keepvid. But a non-machinima version would be a must though, because that huge ugly watermark logo of theirs is just obnoxious. It completely ruins the suspension of disbelief.

Tip: go to the latest youtube video and convince people to vote for MKV here so the future releases there will also have better video. A little politics never hurts in getting things done your way

...I was thinking it and then you said it.... I like those discussions nonetheless. While wading through the insults, overamplified opinions there's usually still interesting information in there. Also: I like to play everything in XBMC.. Now, silence means it's ok, a free psychological evaluation means it might be slightly sub-optimal. Use it, don't hate it.