Videochat November 2019

That encoding related stuttering you described sounds like a memory leak. Also, were you using Google Hangouts or Gmail while your web browser was open? Those cause memory leaks on my PC all the time.

LInux is great for software development and little niches. But try anything beyond that, and the entire DIY aspect quickly regresses into a cargo cult of little rituals you have to do in order to get what you want out of it

1 hour ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

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You look like you've been in a time capsule for about a decade or so.

Modern Linux distributions are easier to install AND use than Apple, forget Windows.

You absolutely can use nothing but Linux without even seeing the console for months.

I have an elder friend who didn't show Windows to his son, until he turned 13 or 14 years and was forced to use Windows in school. Instead, the first OS this boy saw was Linux. And when he finally had to learn Windows, he was shocked by just how ugly and illogical it is compared to Linux. This is a small example that shows that all those talks about how Linux is “user unfriendly” and “hard to understand” are caused by the fact that people already have their brains raped by Windows. In psychology this is known as “Baby duck syndrome”.

7 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

LInux is great for software development and little niches. But try anything beyond that, and the entire DIY aspect quickly regresses into a cargo cult of little rituals you have to do in order to get what you want out of it

Another opinion from mid-2000s.

There is exactly one thing for which Windows is suited better: games. That's all. Everything except gaming is better done in Linux.

I found out about Linux (almost by accident) in 2008, and by 2010 I wasn't even booting my PC into Windows anymore, aside from gaming. Since I don't play many games, I guess I could just remove the goddamn thing from my HDD to free up some space.

3 hours ago, ScumCoder said:

Another opinion from mid-2000s.

There is exactly one thing for which Windows is suited better: games. That's all. Everything except gaming is better done in Linux.

I found out about Linux (almost by accident) in 2008, and by 2010 I wasn't even booting my PC into Windows anymore, aside from gaming. Since I don't play many games, I guess I could just remove the goddamn thing from my HDD to free up some space.

And yet, I still need to pull up the man pages everytime I need to make a tarball

7 hours ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

i really don't think traumatizing, or making fun of users, who can't get used to such systems is good, or kind, or nice at all, to me this goes against everything humanity has done, i just don't understand why grandma can't browse her facebook and have a good time, as much as the hex editing reverse engineering power user

I actually think that both user groups you mentioned can be satisfied with Linux. A newbie (like your grandma) can have a great time on a user-friendly distro (e.g. Linux Mint, elementary OS) doing basic things like web surfing or using office applications; in fact, I'd go so far as to say that they'd have a better time using Linux. The actual people having problems with Linux are power users that already have everything figured out on Windows (like Ross). They're going to have a hard time because a lot of the more complicated use cases require more hoops to jump through on Linux or simply aren't documented well. I'm not saying this is a non-issue—it definitely is one—, but it's a different thing altogether.

2 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

 but once grandma starts to wish she could use windows only apps, that's when everything goes downhill i immagine

That scenario was imagining someone who really is a total newbie with not much experience to warrant the use of Windows apps, so I wouldn't imagine that to be much of an issue anyway.

I do agree with your sentiment on the decentralised nature of Linux being a detriment for mass adoption. It's not really an OS per se, there's a whole community with its schisms and what-not. Someone new to computers definitely isn't going to install a distribution all by themselves, it's usually a tech-savvy relative helping out.

1 minute ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

i mean i kinda got confused when you brought up grandma again, and i wasn't sure where my point was going anymore, i just left like that and i tried to start over again

“Bringing Up Grandma Considered Harmful”

So much division.... At least we can all agree that Vi is much better than emacs

40 minutes ago, Im_CIA said:

So much division.... At least we can all agree that Vi is much better than emacs

Ed is the standard text editor.

19 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

is this a horror game or is this some kind of weird simulation, are we in the wrong time line?

ed is a text editor predating monitors (people used teleprinters back then), so it's very obtuse. I guess you could compare using it to wandering in the dark only being able to see what's right in front of you.

Anyway, this is a great conversation, but it is getting massively off-topic.

Well this got interesting very quickly... @RaTcHeT302 Has many good points, especially regarding the superiority complex of many of the Linux supporters. (which were very strongly confirmed as existing by @ScumCoder) I grew up with DOS, and am not afraid in the slightest of the CLI, but even I can clearly see the benefit of the GUI for making everything work much easier, and much faster for a user. Even one that knows exactly what they need to do in the command line.

Because of that, I've gotten to the point that I only really recommend LMDE to people looking to start out on Linux after using Windows for a while. Plenty of GUI everywhere and for everything. The biggest thing that people need to learn with it is that you only get your programs from a single app, not not individually from wherever you download them. If you need to add a repo though, that's where it gets complicated. (though not as much so with what comes with LMDE)

Once people get past the learning curve for the repo system, they can usually do anything they want in LMDE, excluding certain Windows stuff. (like most games, or Photoshop) For anyone used to Android as a primary OS, (there's more and more of them every year) Linux is very easy to learn.

I just wish that more games would make a Linux version, as Linux has a significantly lower overhead, causing more system resources to be available for game use. Too bad game designers prefer to use DX12 instead of Vulcan. (despite Vulcan/OpenGL being superior in many ways, and on-par in all the rest)

6 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

I just wish that more games would make a Linux version, as Linux has a significantly lower overhead, causing more system resources to be available for game use. Too bad game designers prefer to use DX12 instead of Vulcan. (despite Vulcan/OpenGL being superior in many ways, and on-par in all the rest)

Fuck games. Linux should just be a tool for industry professionals. The more esoteric, less people I have to compete with to get my next job.

8 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

Fuck games. Linux should just be a tool for industry professionals. The more esoteric, less people I have to compete with to get my next job.

It really should, but games are the ones that would benefit the most from the additional resources, and there are WAY more people interested in increasing their gaming performance for free, hence the use of games as the pushing force.

I like how Ross says Amnesia is bad and someone suggests SOMA as better game. I thought soma is universally hated. It would be interesting to know what Ross would think. I would bet he's also going to hate it.

Stadia is almost dead already, most people in the industry does not believe in it.

On topic of Linux: wine isn't easy, especially on nvidia. If you want a game to be running on Linux you may just ask people to run the game in specific manner so they come up back with ready solution (it may not work the same on your machine though). I dunno why people recommend lutris or playonlinux - those are launchers that are meant to run scripts that someone else did. If you are running weird games, then well - those aren't going to help you.

Some of those characters in the game reminded me of comic book characters: Jonah Jameson, ra's al ghul, Doctor Strange.  

On 11/8/2019 at 12:53 PM, RaTcHeT302 said:

if grandma can't browse facebook she won't care about linux

All my elder relatives use Linux only. They actually find it way more friendly than Windows, for exactly the same reason why the 13-years-old boy that I mentioned: they have a fresh pair of eyes and can judge objectively. (Before you ask: for certain reasons my grandparents got into Internet only around 2010 and they pretty much had no experience whatsoever with computers before that).

On 11/9/2019 at 1:57 PM, BTGBullseye said:

especially regarding the superiority complex of many of the Linux supporters. (which were very strongly confirmed as existing by @ScumCoder

 

Superiority complex is when someone considers himself superior. This does not apply to me in any way, shape or form.

Au contraire, I consider myself a painfully plain and average person in pretty much every aspect. This is the very reason why I find all those "LInux is for geeks" bullshit ridiculous.

On 11/9/2019 at 8:51 PM, Im_CIA said:

Fuck games. Linux should just be a tool for industry professionals. The more esoteric, less people I have to compete with to get my next job.

Okay, I admit that I do agree with you here. (Also I like how this instantly reminded me of your previous pearl about post-2004 games).

On 11/10/2019 at 3:17 PM, NightNord said:

I thought SOMA is universally hated. It would be interesting to know what Ross would think. I would bet he's also going to hate it.

You might not like it, but this is the first time I've heard that sentiment. I have to assume you're not thinking of another game since you mentioned Frictional's Amnesia in the same sentence. In fact checking Wikipedia it looks like it was reviewed fairly well and sold more than Amnesia. (they are very different games though)

I just finished SOMA the other day thanks to the free Epic promotion and it was quite good. Not perfect by any stretch. The problems it had seemed like they were a result of budget. The story is nothing special if you're already familiar with digital immortality and AI. No idea if Ross would like it. Might be too boring / tedious in parts. I'm a big fan of stealth games and still felt the hiding and waiting was pretty annoying in this one.