ROSS’S GAME DUNGEON: DEUS EX - HUMAN REVOLUTION

Hm, so you're familiar with GitS and Akira? And even mention some stock anime poses. I guess game dungeon on "Oni" is not far away

After Playing Deus Ex GOTY I can safely say Deus Ex: Human Revolution isn't a Deus Ex game mechanically either. Deus Ex: Human Revolution doesn't have anywhere near the same level of experimentation nor exploration as Deus Ex GOTY. For example in Deus Ex GOTY you can jump 10 feet in the air over a fence whereas in Deus Ex: Human Revolution you can barely jump at all. Deus Ex GOTY had this great feeling of breaking the system. Not on the level of Morrowind but pretty close. Whereas in Deus Ex: Human Revolution it confines you to that system and forces you to work with it. In Deus Ex: Human Revolution you can only play the way it wants and any sense of experimentation isn't real. You didn't discover something new the designers put something to seem like it's new. Do you see the difference? Deus Ex GOTY sense of mostly unbound freedom accompanies most manners of play. Deus Ex GOTY serves the player whereas the player serves Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The difference in core design philosophies are very subtle but very different.

 

The levels are also less expansive and intricate than Deus Ex GOTY's which serve to confine the player's freedom even more so. Going back to Deus Ex: Human Revolution after playing Deus Ex GOTY I feel like I'm being constricted in every possible manner.

 

IMO Deus Ex: Human Revolution despite the branding doesn't feel a Deus Ex game . It goes against all the core design philosophies that were laid out by Deus Ex GOTY and I can't help but feel frustrated with it. After hearing what Ross said about the rest of the game I'm really starting to hate Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Nurses regularly have to move people who weigh upwards of 300 pounds and who are basically incapable of moving themselves. You bet your ass they would be pressured into augmenting in the HR universe.

Great review and I agree on the writing and general themes of the game being too far removed from reality when Deus Ex 1 was very grounded in reality. But I'm generally too much of a fan of cyberpunk stuff to not really mind this and actually rather enjoyed it, especially the Robocop vibe. None of it bothered me personally but you gave a fair explanation on why it bothered you.

 

And yeah... giving people a free concussion is merciful apparently. Though I guess it's merciful compared to stabbing them or giving them flechette poisoning.

 

Nurses regularly have to move people who weigh upwards of 300 pounds and who are basically incapable of moving themselves. You bet your ass they would be pressured into augmenting in the HR universe.

 

Hell yeah, nursing is no cakewalk for sure.

This series of reviews has really changed the way I view Ross as a reviewer, in the sense that I hope he doesn't move forward with his plans to start reviewing more popular games. I like Ross a lot, and I don't enjoy disagreeing with him for 30 minutes instead of being entertained and informed about a game I might have never heard of.

 

Just a few points:

 

Does he really suppose the original Deus Ex wouldn't have taken a more elaborate production design if it had the graphical capacity to do so in 2000, when nearly all cyberpunk aesthetic weird in some way (look at, just like he said, the Matrix--the fashion there isn't too far from Human Revolution).

 

I get that Ross hates non-Western stuff, I just wish he didn't have to telegraph it so much. What Taggart was doing is supposed to be showing he's nervous. People in fact do make awkward hand gestures all the time, and sometime you have to exaggerate that in dramatic setup to make it more obvious for the player. We get that you hate anime Ross, but not everything you dislike about this game is caused by anime.

 

He also never seems to consider that the idea is that people are being whipped up into a frenzy about augments by Illuminati in total disregard for facts like how many jobs are really lost, which is exactly what people like Donald Trump do in real life--take a relatively minor issue that doesn't effect a lot of people but involves a minority that is out of the mainstream and make them into a scapegoat. It's not hard to see relation between augs and undocumented workers (i.e. illegal immigrants), and Ross doesn't mention that construction is basically the main area where augs take jobs from naturals, getting sponsored by they're employers so they essentially become indentured servants---which isn't that far from undocumented immigrants. Not to mention, Ross is wrong about nurses having no need for augs, as they are in fact one of the main professions to use mechanical exoskeletons for moving patients around (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/panasonic-assist-suit-robot-exoskeleton-aids-factory-workers-nurses-care-workers-1550399).

 

If Ross doesn't like the tinting, that's fine, but this is cyberpunk. Unrealistic, dramatic tinting is the name of the game: look at The Matrix, again, and the color green.

 

I could go on and on, but I'll just boil it down to this: I really liked Human Revolution and I'm sure Ross knows a lot of people did to. I also know that he doesn't like Bioshock, for example, another game that takes a series he liked in a different direction. But whatever his reasons, I really don't want a repeat of this saying how great System Shock 2 was how Bioshock is garbage by comparison because it isn't more of the same.

 

More generally, I just don't want Ross to become a more long winded Zero Punctuation about how all games from the last 10 years are garbage.

Wow, this is a good critique. I knew there were plot wholes but I never realized how unbelievable it really was. Augmentations would give anyone a physical advantages but in reality only a few people would end up with them due to entry and maintenance costs. Would this really cause riots in the streets, etc? This is why I watch you Ross.

Very good episode rose! I enjoyed it a lot and the lord of the ring joke is halurious! Thanks!

I really enjoyed this series. I'd love to see your take on VtMB sometime.

 

This video also reminds me of how sad I was to learn that the GitS IP was used to make a multiplayer cod knock-off rather than a fully fleshed out single player experience. Oh well.

And yeah... giving people a free concussion is merciful apparently. Though I guess it's merciful compared to stabbing them or giving them flechette poisoning.

JC Denton was probably giving equally bad concussions due to his nano-augumented strength. Think about it, he has to be hitting a person pretty hard in order knock them out with a baton. I'm surprised that his baton didn't snap in half from all the force he's using. Tasers, pepper spray and poisoned crossbow darts aren't exactly merciful either. I guess mercy doesn't mean without pain.

 

I get that Ross hates non-Western stuff, I just wish he didn't have to telegraph it so much. What Taggart was doing is supposed to be showing he's nervous. People in fact do make awkward hand gestures all the time, and sometime you have to exaggerate that in dramatic setup to make it more obvious for the player. We get that you hate anime Ross, but not everything you dislike about this game is caused by anime.

It still doesn't excuse the fact that it's hamfisted as hell. Wouldn't it feel patronizing if the game felt you were so stupid that it had to explain to you how a character was feeling so blatantly? That's how that scene came across to me.

 

 

I could go on and on, but I'll just boil it down to this: I really liked Human Revolution and I'm sure Ross knows a lot of people did to. I also know that he doesn't like Bioshock, for example, another game that takes a series he liked in a different direction. But whatever his reasons, I really don't want a repeat of this saying how great System Shock 2 was how Bioshock is garbage by comparison because it isn't more of the same.

It's his channel so Ross can say whatever he likes on it and if you don't like it maybe you should go somewhere else. I happen to like the more critical direction Ross went with Deus Ex: Human Revolution because quite frankly it wasn't very good. It was more about aesthetic than anything of substance unlike Deus Ex GOTY offered.

More generally, I just don't want Ross to become a more long winded Zero Punctuation about how all games from the last 10 years are garbage.

Well if your not the AAA video games industry's general audience then yes, for the past 10 years most games have been nothing but mediocre garbage and it's pretty clear that Ross thinks this way. If you look at his Top 25 Most Anticipated Games! video all the games he's interested in are from indies because like me he has lost all hope in the AAA video games industry getting better. At this point the entire future of gaming lies on their shoulders and that's not good because they can be as spotty as AAA video game developers. But they're the only chance we have at making original, innovative games again. The AAA video games industry is on it's last legs and is becoming more desperate by the second. It's only a matter of time till we see AAA video games industry crash again just like video game crash of 1983.

pa29EM-YTwo

Wow, this is a good critique. I knew there were plot wholes but I never realized how unbelievable it really was. Augmentations would give anyone a physical advantages but in reality only a few people would end up with them due to entry and maintenance costs. Would this really cause riots in the streets, etc? This is why I watch you Ross.

To be fair, the riots were more due to people freaking out that the thought of augmented super soldiers basically instating martial law, since they only happened after a Picus fueled media-frenzy about "leaked" satellite footage of said super-soldiers.

Plus, you know, rioters gotta riot. And, as always, it started as a peaceful protest.

The fashion show with gay club music from Postal 2 was where I lost it.

It's his channel so Ross can say whatever he likes on it and if you don't like it maybe you should go somewhere else. I happen to like the more critical direction Ross went with Deus Ex: Human Revolution because quite frankly it wasn't very good. It was more about aesthetic than anything of substance unlike Deus Ex GOTY offered.

 

You can say it wasn't very good and so can Ross, but most people would disagree with you. I'm just telling Ross as someone whose donated to him, not a huge amount but some, that there's at least one person who has given him money who doesn't like the direction he seems to be headed.

 

Well if your not the AAA video games industry's general audience then yes, for the past 10 years most games have been nothing but mediocre garbage and it's pretty clear that Ross thinks this way. If you look at his Top 25 Most Anticipated Games! video all the games he's interested in are from indies because like me he has lost all hope in the AAA video games industry getting better. At this point the entire future of gaming lies on their shoulders and that's not good because they can be as spotty as AAA video game developers. But they're the only chance we have at making original, innovative games again. The AAA video games industry is on it's last legs and is becoming more desperate by the second. It's only a matter of time till we see AAA video games industry crash again just like video game crash of 1983.

 

Original, innovative games like No Man's Sky?

Are you going to Game Dungeon Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines sometime?

Original, innovative games like No Man's Sky?

You completely missed what I said. I said indies can be as spotty or worse than AAA developers. But indies at least have the opportunity to make games that are innovative and original whereas AAA game developers do not. AAA developers are under the constant pressure of corporate oversight and deadlines. AAA developers barely have room to breath and I feel sorry for them because they have no alternatives outside of risky ones. Unless publishers start wanting to make innovative and original games I don't see how anything will change for the AAA games industry.

 

Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Mankind Divide, Bioshock, etc weren't made because their publisher wanted to push this medium forward or because they loved the medium, no they were made to make a profit. Those games were average and serviceable because that's all they needed to be in order to appeal to the average consumer which also happens to be the largest consumer base. This is how marketing works.

 

Since I want to see this medium at it's best I hate average games. I consider them a waste of my fucking time and if I don't have single good thing to say about them then by all means they should forgotten, left to wallow in their shallow mediocrity as failures of their medium. It's not enough for a game to be serviceably average, it needs to be exceptional or at least be exceptional at something.

 

Also Hello Games isn't indie anymore since No Man's Sky was marketed largely by Sony. They were independent but not anymore when they accepted help from sony to hype the living fuck out their game.

Deus Ex was created during the "John Romero is going to make you his bitch" era.

While I don't know Romero had much part in creation of Deus Ex, it is safe to assume that he was busy making Daikatana with Ion Storm Austin.

However his almost crazy entrepreneur genious game developer rock star attitute must have been mimiced by Ion Storm Dallas, who made Deus Ex.

 

Fast forward to 2011, Square Enix bought the Deus Ex franchise and with a giant mega corporation funding a video game comes the cons with it.

There was no way a AAA publisher backed up studio to create a Deus Ex game to come close to the scope of the original. You lose the freedom

you have with almost indie like development of late 90's.

 

And hell even Jim Sterling has 2 videos on the newest Deus Ex where Square Enix tried to gimp the game at any way they could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sBtkU2eJ4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVbj4GuuZTA

 

And also the insane production values these games have must be mentioned, where up to 100 million dollars can be spent on AAA games.

Not to mention the insane sales expectanties from Square Enix does not help at all, Tomb Raider selling 3.4 million copies is a comercial failure apparently.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-26-tomb-raider-has-sold-3-4-million-copies-failed-to-hit-expectations

 

So yeah people want to make great video games but the insane cost of making shiny graphics causes them to be under a mega corperation's leash

where it gets harder and harder to make the product you were meaning to.

 

Of course there is the other side of the coin where giving too much freedom to a developer, cough Tim Shafer, can lead to disasterous things.

So what sould be done in conclusion? I don't really know, I'm just a physicist.

Great review! Mankind Divided did address a number of his concerns - the tinting is gone, largely, and the issue with augmentations is over the killings, not transhumanism.

 

Some problems:

 

He also never seems to consider that the idea is that people are being whipped up into a frenzy about augments by Illuminati in total disregard for facts like how many jobs are really lost, which is exactly what people like Donald Trump do in real life--take a relatively minor issue that doesn't effect a lot of people but involves a minority that is out of the mainstream and make them into a scapegoat. It's not hard to see relation between augs and undocumented workers (i.e. illegal immigrants), and Ross doesn't mention that construction is basically the main area where augs take jobs from naturals, getting sponsored by they're employers so they essentially become indentured servants---which isn't that far from undocumented immigrants.

 

This. Its also a factor in MD, to a degree.

 

Also, critiquing the unbelievability of dialog in HR when comparing it to the original is nostalgia glasses to the max. I love the original, but the review even started with a snippet of dialogue that is more insane than anything in human revolution - and that snippet is not rare. Really the only people who make sense in DX are the main characters - terrorists in the midst of a mission do not discuss philosophy with each other like they're around a water cooler.

 

Finally I would say that like the original, HR is designed to be played stealthy. It looked like from the video that shooting up the place is where narratively it fell apart; I wouldn't know because like DX Classic, it never occurred to me to do it any way but stealthy.

 

But, apart from the critiques of his critique, a number of things were spot on:

- The tint obviously. I didn't mind it, and appreciate the designers trying to go for a given look that emphasises their theme, but its still out of place.

- Some of the tech, like Hengsha the dual city, is pretty far fetched. In general having the prequel be more high tech than the sequel is fine, given when they were built, but having a city like that be built in the next two decades is unrealistic.

- The ending (the very ending) was silly: human computers when they have AIs as complex as Eliza Cassan? Why? And the 'ending machine' was dumb.

- Pritchard the IT guy was annoying, though he gets better.

Also Hello Games isn't indie anymore since No Man's Sky was marketed largely by Sony. They were independent but not anymore when they accepted help from sony to hype the living fuck out their game.

 

No, that's incorrect. They've been supported by Sony, but they have published their own game - they're indie because they're independent from any publisher. The amount of money involved has no bearing on this, although it's strongly related to the term if you're going for a statistical analysis.

 

terrorists in the midst of a mission do not discuss philosophy with each other like they're around a water cooler.

As someone who has served in the army, I can say it's probably true - talks tend to focus around sports, sex, and the commanders' bullshit orders as they come - but after some time doing patrols with someone, you talk more and more about things like "what the hell am I doing here, guarding this piece of desert?" and there's always some guy that's eager to talk about the bible once we've exhausted all other topics. So yes, it can be lead to some philosophical conversations!

Also, some of the NSF guys in Liberty Island complain about JoJo being their superior officer. So even the conversations that aren't about philosophy hit the mark.

 

As a fan, I don't really mind Ross doing RGDs on popular games as long as he has some unique insight about them, like the plot analysis in this one compared to the previous Deus Ex games. It helps me formulate WHY I personally didn't like Human Revolution as much - the world just seemed odd, like an episode in a sitcom: Everyone struggles with the same issue, and progress is made in parallel rather than on a personal level. It's like a hive-mind, only stupider.

So there's merit even if he's tackling a well-known subject. I understand why people might be against it since it might seem tired and old, but he looks at things from a new perspective. Also, more people might be more knowledgeable on certain subject than Ross is, so it can lead to an outcry. But I still think his opinions add something new to the conversation, and therefore, currently I'm fine with whatever Ross wants to put out - whether it be RGDs on old games, new games, Ross Rants, Moon Gaming, whatever!

This series of reviews has really changed the way I view Ross as a reviewer, in the sense that I hope he doesn't move forward with his plans to start reviewing more popular games. I like Ross a lot, and I don't enjoy disagreeing with him for 30 minutes instead of being entertained and informed about a game I might have never heard of.

Well for the record, I'd rather get back to lesser known games, but I'll try and cover some of your points.

 

Does he really suppose the original Deus Ex wouldn't have taken a more elaborate production design if it had the graphical capacity to do so in 2000, when nearly all cyberpunk aesthetic weird in some way (look at, just like he said, the Matrix--the fashion there isn't too far from Human Revolution).

The thing is, making a character look cyberpunk v. making them look normal doesn't require more graphical power than another. Deus Ex has some cyberpunks, but they're a small number. Some are drug dealers, or more eclectic types hanging out in clubs, or part of a larger government organization. There's a difference between more fleshed out production v. LAVISH. I feel like you're implying every game would take things to ludicrous levels as opposed to exercising restraints that make sense for the setting. Deus Ex could have easily been more futuristic and less realistic if it wanted to, regardless of budget, but I think it's grounding had to be at least partially a conscience decision. It doesn't really take any more effort to make a sci-fi military base than it does to make a modern one.

 

I get that Ross hates non-Western stuff, I just wish he didn't have to telegraph it so much. What Taggart was doing is supposed to be showing he's nervous. People in fact do make awkward hand gestures all the time, and sometime you have to exaggerate that in dramatic setup to make it more obvious for the player. We get that you hate anime Ross, but not everything you dislike about this game is caused by anime.

First off, I don't hate all non-Western stuff. I think highly of many Kurosawa movies, I've read about 500 pages of Musashi (haven't finished it, it's a long book). I've read The Art of War. Eventually I hope to learn more about the teachings of Confucius. Yes, it's true I'm not fond of most anime, but I see value in some of it too. I do appreciate the wanton imagination that comes from some of it. As someone who generally doesn't like anime, I can't deny that I think Akira is a work of art. It's really blow-your-mind material. While I don't put it on the same level, GITS portrays a very interesting world also and I think it has a great soundtrack as well.

 

I attribute SOME of what I was seeing to the anime overtones (come on, they have a FF poster on the wall), because I seriously don't see this in any other sort of western media, like the overly humble researcher or some of the animation decisions. As for Taggart, here's the deal:

 

At the time he was doing that gresture, he was CONFRONTING Jensen, trying to throw him off guard, projecting confidence. If he's trying to act nervous, his body language didn't match AT ALL. Furthermore, he's a public official for a serious organization, that gesturing throws everything out of sync. People at that level with connections to government have a lot of composure about them and are essentially part of a different class. Even if they're caught red-handed with something, people like Taggart didn't get to where they are without being smooth operators. In the same way you expect a professional poker player to keep his cool, his whole job is public relations and staying composed under pressure (that is, if he was on the defensive, which he wasn't at the time). I'm sorry, but the anime-like gestures for that character just ripped me right out of it. If it had been for Pritchard, I might not have thought of it the same. Ultimately, it's a culmination of many different things. Really it's the police response to the terrorists that sent me over the edge, and that's not anime-related at all, that's just purely writing about what the author clearly didn't understand.

 

He also never seems to consider that the idea is that people are being whipped up into a frenzy about augments by Illuminati in total disregard for facts like how many jobs are really lost, which is exactly what people like Donald Trump do in real life--take a relatively minor issue that doesn't effect a lot of people but involves a minority that is out of the mainstream and make them into a scapegoat. It's not hard to see relation between augs and undocumented workers (i.e. illegal immigrants), and Ross doesn't mention that construction is basically the main area where augs take jobs from naturals, getting sponsored by they're employers so they essentially become indentured servants---which isn't that far from undocumented immigrants. Not to mention, Ross is wrong about nurses having no need for augs, as they are in fact one of the main professions to use mechanical exoskeletons for moving patients around (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/panasonic-assist-suit-robot-exoskeleton-aids-factory-workers-nurses-care-workers-1550399).

See this is where I think it really falls short of Deus Ex. Besides not making very compelling arguments for augmentations being a big deal, they don't try to show any REAL reasons that employment is being lost that you as the player could see even if the public is fixated on augmentations. The short version is the concerns of the citizenry seem very real in Deus Ex, whereas HR's narrative felt incredibly artificial to me and felt like it was entirely rhetoric. They needed better propaganda in other words. I found it easier to believe the cult of the Omar was trying to actively advance evolution because they explained what they were doing and why. HR really likes to dodge the "why" and keep things as vague as they can. That's not good for what's your central premise. You're right in that I may have been hasty about nurses and possible a couple other occupations, however we're ALREADY in an employer's market, people are going to be tripping over each other for jobs and HR could have tried to explain the dynamics of that more, but it really felt like it was all augs, all the time.

 

I could go on and on, but I'll just boil it down to this: I really liked Human Revolution and I'm sure Ross knows a lot of people did to.

Hey, I think the gameplay was great, I honestly can't decide which I like better, HR's or DX's. A lot of the combat was excellent. Coloring aside, I also thought it had great art design, IF it was a different game. The thing to understand is this is a PREQUEL. So when you make a prequel or sequel that clearly shows signs of not respecting the source material, how can you expect a fan of the original to be comfortable with that? It would be kind of like adding Roman Chariots and Naval Battles to Lord of The Rings or The Hobbit. Cool concepts on their own, but doesn't really belong in what's already an established universe. So try to appreciate this from my perspective, it's one of my favorite games being invaded by a different intellectual property. It doesn't mean that the new concept is bad, but it's not unreasonable to see how that can ruffle feathers. I'm sure there are games you appreciate that you would not want to see a sequel mixed with an IP you thought was a poor fit for it.

 

Look, it's obvious there's talent behind DX:HR, but I honestly think the Deus Ex IP is holding them back and I'd rather play the game they would make without DX being an anchor around their neck. Something where realism isn't as much of an issue as it is for DX fans and they could go wild. I think they have the chops to pull off something truly imaginative that could be a modern classic if they were to launch a new IP.

 

I also know that he doesn't like Bioshock, for example, another game that takes a series he liked in a different direction. But whatever his reasons, I really don't want a repeat of this saying how great System Shock 2 was how Bioshock is garbage by comparison because it isn't more of the same.

That wouldn't be my argument at all, in fact, quite the opposite, but let's not get into that, this is long enough. The larger point to take home is expectations for successors / sequels / prequels of existing IPs are different than fresh ones.

 

More generally, I just don't want Ross to become a more long winded Zero Punctuation about how all games from the last 10 years are garbage.

Won't happen. I think we have more great games than ever, it's overwhelming. Hell, I made a list and had LOADS of runner-ups! Why would I do that if I thought modern games were garbage? Hell, I mentioned Party Hard in the last episode, that game was like crack for me. I literally have a list of hundreds of games (old and new) that grabbed me enough to warrant further research on because they looked like they could be pretty cool at first glance. I think you have me all wrong if you think what I'm writing is just pedantic bandwagon griping.

As someone who has served in the army, I can say it's probably true - talks tend to focus around sports, sex, and the commanders' bullshit orders as they come - but after some time doing patrols with someone, you talk more and more about things like "what the hell am I doing here, guarding this piece of desert?" and there's always some guy that's eager to talk about the bible once we've exhausted all other topics. So yes, it can be lead to some philosophical conversations!

 

I guess I meant on an active mission where they are surrounded by enemies and moments from dying, but thanks for the insight! I am not a terrorist nor have I served in any military, so it just seemed odd and out of place to me, but I am happy to adjust my expectations

 

Ross's videos ARE great usually because they offer a different take on things than the 'conventional' view. I guess I always took the augmentations storyline at face value in HR, but it IS a little ridiculous when you step back from it. I really liked HR, and as a huge fan of the original I was pretty happy with HR bearing the DX name, but it was a first title in this series by the new developer, and I like that they improved on the problems in Mankind Divided.