Ross’s Crazy Mouse Design

The level of thought you've put into this is astounding.  Most people think "mouse for computer" and don't bother with all the specifics, but your method of thinking is spot-on.  I'll admit, all I look for in a new mouse is "working buttons, working scroll wheel and overall functionality".  I've never used one with side buttons or anything like that.... and by no means do I think this was a waste of your time.  You outlined what your ideal new mouse should feature in a clear, concise manner. 

 

I sincerely hope you can, in fact, find a new mouse that fits all the criteria you've listed.  

 

(I'm guessing trackballs aren't your thing, since you never mentioned them in the graphic....)

No, it doesn't exist, it's not even close.  So it's always a tradeoff of what do I hate not having the most, which shifts in my brain.

 

As for trackballs, those are a tease, because a lot of trackballs have an EXCELLENT shape to the frame, but I'm complete garbage with trackballs.  I would want a mouse in a trackball frame.

I really love the Logitech G502.  It has those buttons on the side as well as being programmable do doing whatever you want.  The scroll wheel is also amazing, because it has a lock to turn it from normal scrolling to a wheel you can spin to quickly scroll through stuff.  The best part is the weight though, it comes with weights you can put into the mouse to change how it feels and where it's heaviest.  It's great!  No middle button though, but you can press the mousewheel, and that's programmable.  It does have a grip on the side for whatever reason, though.  There's also a wireless version!

Had a Logitech.. I think it was MX1100, wireless, which was a huge heavy chunk, but was as if moulded after my hand, and ran for months off of two AA batteries.

 

Lost it when I accidently dropped it into a cup of tea (yes, really).

 

Replaced it with an MX Master, since the 1100 was out of production, and that thing is too tiny and badly angled in every way possible, for my hand, and its built-in chargeable battery barely lasted a day when it was new; At this point in its life, the thing has become a de-facto wired device.

17 hours ago, Ross Scott said:

My mouse is starting to die on me and that made me frustrated trying to find a new one.  I ended up making a graphic of a mouse I'm pretty sure no one besides me wants, but some of you might find some individual parts of it appealing.  I wasted time making this, but it felt cathartic.

 

 

This is a blog post. To read the original post, please click here »

 

FYI, wireless doesn't HAVE to add weight... The G502 Lightspeed is proof of that. The non-wireless version was significantly heavier. You can also do fully wireless charging at the same time, thereby becoming a purely wireless mouse without need of a charge cord/station or replacement batteries.

I have a mouse made out of smooth glossy plastic, and that sucker collects dirt so frequently that I have to wash it every few hours(!). Been a while since I used regular mice and been wondering if a mouse with patterned texture wouldn't have that issue. Thanks

I forgot to comment on the Mionix Naos in the thread for the GUI video. I was like "hey, that's my old mouse!" when I saw it. Mine became near-useless as well, I'm gonna bet it was the scroll wheel's click and/or the mouse buttons themselves.

 

As to what I replaced it with? I'm gonna second/third the Logitech G502. Specifically, I use the HERO variant. It hits most of your wants, I'd say. The scroll wheel DOES have buttons right next to it, but one of them does this neat thing where it "unlocks" the scroll wheel and lets you spin it freely for faster scrolling. The sensitivity-changing buttons are off to the side of the left mouse button, and you probably won't hit them by accident. The thumb buttons are pretty unobtrusive and your hand will rest in such a way that you definitely won't accidentally press them.

As for the shape I really like the Cooler Master Spawn because of this ring finger rest:

 

There's no thumb or pinky rest, I hate them, they get in the way.

 

Honestly though, it sounds like you might have to build a custom mouse to get everything or even half of what you want.

Well Ross, I threw your infographic up on the nerdiest place I know, the Linus Tech Tips forum, if I see any interesting hits/responses I'll drop them here.

 

(For reference, topic here:  https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1213607-super-weird-and-specific-mouse/ )

 

This was DM'd to me, if you don't mind vertical mice Ross:  https://www.amazon.com/Evoluent-VM4R-VerticalMouse-Ergonomic-Connection/dp/B00427TAIK

The Logitech G900 seems kinda close, but has scroll wheel. You can explicitly customize the side buttons to your preference in an ambidextrous fashion.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Spectrum-Professional-Wireless-Ambidextrous/dp/B01CEFEMFW/

 

My best scroll wheel alternative was that I remember there being such a thing as mice that replace the wheel with a touch strip in the middle. But near as I can tell this idea had an abortive launch around Windows 8 and hasn't gone anywhere. Certainly it has never gone into a good mouse. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Sculpt-Bluetooth-Windows-Tablets/dp/B008OEHPPM/

 

Honestly I think you'll have to accept defeat on the scroll wheel front. Which is annoying, because now I'm paying attention to mine and also think it is uncomfortable.

 

 

"Ross doesn't like wireless"

 

OK, that Ross dude really have problems

 

P.S. Why not make a custom one? Sounds like you just want a different wheel position - everything else should probably be feasible to find in a market mouse.

 

The wheel and the button are actually separate controllers, so with some 3d printing it should definitely be possible to move the wheel to the side and replace it will a button

Finally watched your video about GUI yesterday and you kinda got on a tangent about flaws of current HIDs, namely keyboard and mouse inefficiencies. I went from the RAT 7, to the Roccat Nyth minus 2 thumb buttons (6 and 7), to the Swiftpoint Z. Shit is crazy expensive, but I'd never go back provided it's supported indefinitely. Buttons are placed in a much more anatomically logical way. Ironically, when I got it, I figured the gyroscope would be the bigger useless gimmick over the pressure sensitive buttons. Pressing M1 firmly to rapidfire is bad when you're taken by surprise as you'll be dumping your magazine at the sky if you react strongly enough. Pressing M2 and having 3 pressure depths [normal M2, 1/2 dpi, 1/4 dpi] isn't comfortable to juggle, especially in heated moments. Eventually I realized I could use the gyroscope for useful alternative binds, and that was when I felt sure it was worth the money to me. It does have auto-profile switching, though I've basically never used it.

I've had it for a few days under 25 months, here's a graphic of my current binds: 

There's an all binds list that's clean enough, though I figure this is much more comprehensible for the layman. You can really go crazy with your bind depth; I haven't since all I really do on my PC is browse the internet, play shooters, and rarely photo edit.

 

Not a mouse, but the only other HID I'm interested in that I don't own is the Wooting keyboard. Mechanical, analog-input keys that seems to have a similar level of software complexity to the Z. Expensive, but cheaper than some name brand mechanical keyboards that have binary only switches. Kliksphilip has 2 oldish videos playing around with one.

My idea doesn't fit Ross's request (although I think my set up is worth considering, Ross, as I've been using this set up for over ten years, and I've tuned it well for memorization purposes that you mention in your video). I originally posted this in the discord channel, and I don't want to go through and edit anything, so here's the copied and pasted version:

 

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Ross, I have a logitech g600 mouse that I've been using for ?ten? years now, and I use it in many ways you're saying you like in your video. It's basically a naga alt mouse, and I have an effective 43 button mouse with a spare 86 buttons (when accounting for alt profiles I can cycle through).

The g button on the far right is what's used to quickly toggle the "g keys" which is simply the alt functions for everything on the mouse.

 

You can program dang near any marco to the buttons that you want; bypassing that memorization list you complained about in your mouse video.

 

I can use my mouse for a LONG time, depending on what I'm doing without needing to touch the keyboard.

It also uses all fingers except for your pinky, but honestly, if you want two fingers on the side buttons you can move your hand over and use all of your fingers!!

the cons: the software gets clunky as heck, as per usual in my experience with logitech. one big hurdle i've gotten over is to reflash the firmware to the mouse (i got a program sent to me by logitech that I can send you if you like this route).

 

finally, this mouse is CHEAP! i have seen it online for 10 to 20$ or less, and i bought 4 of them. there's also a fantastic keyboard called the logitech g510 (which I also bought 4 of) that gives you 18 programmable macro keys on the side with several profiles. this is my dream mouse and keyboard combo, and I think it will serve a good chunk of your interests.

 

 

I can explain the key layout and why it works for anyone else interested.

 

First: my methodology. I wanted the mouse to have commonly used keystrokes, and I wanted the secondary commands to line up as closely with the first layer of commands so that if I forget what I programmed these buttons as I could think about what the first layer (which is used most commonly) was and remember what it was. Also, you'll notice i'm using some seemingly circuitous button combinations for common functions, and that's because other OSes have the same commands as what I have here, so if I plug my mouse into another computer I have a chance that MOST things are still working.

 

Second: the first layer of buttons. This is more intimidating than it looks. These are all one or two button presses on the keyboard.

• Enter, delete and backspace are button i use the most commonly so I put them in the most convenient thumb pressing locations. these buttons are grouped here as well because they are related in that I can make a newline or get rid of a line, and I can do it in front of the new line character or behind it. enter also is handy for all instances where you want to press enter other than a newline, which is a lot.
• Cut copy and paste are in such and order that I can run my finger up the keys until I recite in my mind "cut copy paste" and I remember which is which. and if i start using them in rapid succession i know exactly which key to press, and this saves me from having to lean forward in my chair quite a bit. this is what you want
• undo and redo seem natural in these two locations, i can't explain it. and I grouped them next to each other for memorization purposes. windows+d is here because it's kind of a loaner function that needed a single slot and there isn't a third function that goes with undo and redo. it works very well here.
• the back column here I use quite a bit. it lets me jump to the top or bottom of a page, and I put them at the top and bottom of the column for intuitive purposes, i.e. "go to top" "go to bottom". and space is here because i often need to add a space between something or several spaces if I'm writing code. it can also be used to navigate down web pages, and play and pause videos, which I do A LOT
• i left the left and right scroll clicks as back and forward because that's very handy, and it matches all other mice functions in case i switch mice (it sucks going from god-tier mouse to plebeian mouse). DPI cycling is what you think it is. mode shift is to switch profiles on the mouse, which I have.

 

Third: the second layer of buttons: the second layer of these buttons is meant to match the first layer's function as closely as possible

• the first column has: backspace an entire word or delete an entire word. I have played around with having enter be "shift enter" instead of ESC, however this resulted in many messages being sent prematurely and so I made it ESC instead, and I can remember this because if I rotate the mouse counterclockwise towards me the button is in the upper left of the mouse, just like the ESC key on the keyboard (i sometimes move ESC around and this is where human memory can start to fail)
• column 2 i use ALL THE TIME, especially ctrl+r (refresh). the middle button will allow me take highlighted text, copy it, open a new tab, paste it and press enter to search (again, i use this several times per day). the top key is if I already have something on the clipboard and I have my browser active i can, with my mouse anywhere on the screen press that button and it opens a tab, pastes and presses enter.
• column 3: reopen tab gets used all the time. alt is to show waterfox's menu bar, and alt tab is to go back to the last window i was using (i want this to actually do a alt+tab then hold tab so i can press tab to choose a program or click one from the pop up, but i haven't figured out how to easily do that yet).
• column 4 let's me page up, page down and shrink what's on the screen.
• the secondary function for the middle click is going to be Ross's favorite. I CAN CLOSE A TAB WITH MY MOUSE ANYWHERE ON THE SCREEN INSTANTLY!! then the right and left scroll clicks are for navigating tabs in the web browser and then there's the calculator in case i want to open that, which i do all the time.

 

This post is getting long, and I'm running out of time. I'll add more if anyone cares.

 

 

Here are the pics that are supposed to be in my previous post; the links that this website generated are broken from what I see, and I cannot edit the post.

 

 

https://files.catbox.moe/5jkx4f.PNG

17 hours ago, FullBusinessSuit said:

My idea doesn't fit Ross's request (although I think my set up is worth considering, Ross, as I've been using this set up for over ten years, and I've tuned it well for memorization purposes that you mention in your video).

This is a very cool setup. I also find it useful that it is not only something that you have tried out but something that you have been using for years.

 

Ross's request said that he didn't want a mouse like that because he was concerned about accidentally hitting side buttons. He probably has other concerns like weight since he doesn't need/want a wireless mouse. (Who wants to bother with batteries anyway when the mouse is always plugged into a Desktop PC?) How is your experience with the mouse?

• How often do you accidentally hit side buttons?
• How do you think this compares to the Logitech G502 Hero?
• How is the weight and the grip of the mouse? (Is hard to pick up and move with the side buttons? Do the buttons add extra bulk?)

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He probably has other concerns like weight since he doesn't need/want a wireless mouse. (Who wants to bother with batteries anyway when the mouse is always plugged into a Desktop PC?)

Not sure if you think thins mouse is wireless; it's a wired mouse. It would be my dream mouse if it was optionally wired and wireless with a micro usb plug in (as long at there's no response-time sacrifice).

 

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How often do you accidentally hit side buttons?

Never. I truly don't recall a single time where I accidentally hit the buttons on the side; there is ample room below the buttons to comfortably rest my thumb, and grip the mouse if need be; to be more specific, my thumb sits just in front of the front keys (G9, G10, and G11). This mouse is different from the one that Ross mentioned in the video btw. I think logitech's goal was "no frills" with this gaming mouse. I bought this mouse instead of those fancy colorful ones because it looked like logitech took itself more seriously. Anyways, the closest I've came to accidentally hitting a button is me pressing the wrong button when I'm trying to do something too fast. But Ross is a mutant, and maybe he holds his mouse weird, idk.

 

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How do you think this compares to the Logitech G502 Hero?

I have the mouse I have because it has maximum programmable buttons. The G502 says it only has 11 programmable buttons, and I'd feel like that's a downgrade. I really, really like all my buttons. That being said, I'm not sure just how ergonomic the spread out button concept is - it could work, I'm simply not familiar with it. My guess is though that it doesn't allow you to hold your mouse properly when trying to reach for the buttons. I know Ross wanted to use all his fingers, but aside from a single button on the other side for my pinky to cycle through desktops I'm not sure I want any buttons on that side; mainly for holding my mouse in place, and if that solid surface wasn't there THEN I might be accidentally hitting some buttons. Again, it's something that could work, but like Ross, I can't have everything I want in a mouse either. I have called up Logitech many times and suggested that they expand upon the G600 with different shapes and some more buttons. The G502 looks ok if you don't want all the buttons.

 

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How is the weight and the grip of the mouse? (Is hard to pick up and move with the side buttons? Do the buttons add extra bulk?)

I kinda covered this above, but I have never had problems with the weight of any mouse, so that might be something you have to try for yourself; it's simply never come into play for me. However, I will say that the mouse is very smooth along my table, and it's accurate. I mentioned the grip above as well, but I can expand a little by saying there's a bump surface where my pinky rests, which does help with grip, and where my thumb sits the surface is contoured just enough to allow one to "get under" the mouse a bit to assist in picking it up. Also, when I hit the G button with my ring finger it has a groove that fits my ring finger in it, and I can squeeze the mouse the little bit needed for when my thumb is reaching for the side keys closest to my wrist (G18, G19 and G20). The buttons do not add extra bulk as they're recessed into the mouse a bit; if one looks at it from the bottom only a portion of the G9 key sticks out.

 

I also just noticed that when I hit the left and right buttons for the scroll wheel that I use my pinky, yet again, to hold the mouse in place. That being said, Ross should know that if you have to move your pinky off a button to the side just to hit that right scroll wheel button you're probably going to lose some speed, and - I'm telling you, I'm fast with this mouse. I'm constantly popping between windows, tabs, copying, pasting, accessing my menu bar, desktop, backspacing, deleting, hitting enter, refreshing pages, and all the other buttons. You want that speed, like you said in your video.

On 7/2/2020 at 1:18 AM, FullBusinessSuit said:

Here are the pics that are supposed to be in my previous post; the links that this website generated are broken from what I see, and I cannot edit the post.

 

I tried that one in the store, I liked the shape and how it had a ring finger button, but the thumb buttons are a non-starter for me. I have meaty thumbs and I just can't see myself adjusting to buttons that small, ever.   If it had a modular design like the Roccat Nyth, I would probably go for it.

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If it had a modular design like the Roccat Nyth, I would probably go for it.

Obvious question: It looks like you can change out the buttons for bigger ones at the expense of space, of course. So why don't you buy the Roccat Nyth?

This looks like it hits a lot of marks. Not sure of your hand position and whether or not the "grip"/button position would mess with you. It is wireless but it's the same weight as my Logitech M325 and that's considerably light IMO.

 

https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-06RX-011A7

On 7/14/2020 at 2:59 AM, Isaiah said:

 

Okay here's a bizarre one: the AULA S10 ergonomic mouse (Amazon, Newegg, Newegg)

 

 

The shape reminds me of "The Claw" Ross mentioned once so maybe this is a design he would like? This also seems to hit most of his requirements except for being kind of glossily, but it does have a sort of smooth space age look to it. I'd almost be willing to get it for $30 but shipping is $20 or $64 with free shipping.

 

 

 

 

 

As ugly as this is I kind of like the placement of some of the buttons. Plus I like that thumbwheel. Out of all the ones in this thread this is the one I'm most interested in trying. 

 

On 7/15/2020 at 2:50 PM, Isaiah said:

The OOMouse/OpenOfficeMouse/Warmouse Meta is probably the closest thing to Ross' dream mouse and was created way back in 2009 but like all mice of this type, it was short-lived and almost impossible to find now.

 

 

 

 

 

What the hell is that? Jesus H Christ that looks like a nightmare to use and I even have narrow fingers. I definitely disagree with Steve Jobs and think that a mouse should have as many buttons as possible but this ain't it chief.