Charity Drive Appearance 2017

Rly man, I thought you of all know better. First of all, there is very little actual information about where or who to will the money go. So somebody could have very nice X-mass.

 

But even with the benefit of the doubt, it is most likely one of those projects for Africa etc. What they need most is EDUCATION, including learning that nothing's for free. Usually, when they don't have water, they fight and kill each other for it. When they do (and for free), they incredibly waste with it, so soon, very soon, they don't have any again, and others too (as usually very deep dwells are drilled, which results in further lowering of the underground water level). They have not changed in this regard for millenias, they still keep the primitive system of live - masacring themselves when the population grows more than what the environment can support, and than flourishing for a while until it happens again, over and over.

 

This is pretty much the same as sending them food and medicine directly, while not sending them weapons so they can at least continue with their lifestyle as described in previous paragraph. It only makes the problem ENORMOUSLY worse. I'll pass, thank you very much, cause this is no solution, this is the very opposite: putting out a fire by pouring gasoline into it.

Behemot

 

Your statement is correct, logical, and horribly racist (at least by the standards of modern Internet)

Thank God that we're not Tumblr/FB and can call things as they are.

Okay, I watched this and I must say the Tom-Ross duo is pretty entertaining.

The thing that was really annoying though, was those other two dumb fucks who tried to be funny cracking stupid jokes. It was amusing how Ross on the video was literally wincing when he was hearing some especially obnoxious ones.

Rly man, I thought you of all know better. First of all, there is very little actual information about where or who to will the money go. So somebody could have very nice X-mass.

 

But even with the benefit of the doubt, it is most likely one of those projects for Africa etc. What they need most is EDUCATION, including learning that nothing's for free. Usually, when they don't have water, they fight and kill each other for it. When they do (and for free), they incredibly waste with it, so soon, very soon, they don't have any again, and others too (as usually very deep dwells are drilled, which results in further lowering of the underground water level). They have not changed in this regard for millenias, they still keep the primitive system of live - masacring themselves when the population grows more than what the environment can support, and than flourishing for a while until it happens again, over and over.

 

This is pretty much the same as sending them food and medicine directly, while not sending them weapons so they can at least continue with their lifestyle as described in previous paragraph. It only makes the problem ENORMOUSLY worse. I'll pass, thank you very much, cause this is no solution, this is the very opposite: putting out a fire by pouring gasoline into it.

 

This is an incredibly ignorant comment from beginning to end. The charity Water.org was not drawn from a hat. It has a four star rating on charitynavigator.org https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8875 with a 100% rating for transparency. It is completely transparent on where the money is used.

 

Also, this charity does not just dump water in people's laps and waltzes away.

 

"Charity alone is not a long-term solution. We seek sustainable financial solutions that empower people with access to the water and sanitation solutions they need.

That's why we created WaterCredit, bringing small, affordable loans and expert resources to make household water and sanitation solutions a reality."

 

Statements like this are ALL OVER the website as well as details on how they operate. Just a couple of minutes of research would have told you this.

 

These are also mentioned in the video that Ross linked to.

 

Shame on you for actively trying to sabotage a charity effort based on baseless speculation that even a moment of investigation would have told you is unfounded.

I did follow few links, so stick your accusations to wherever you want. It was jump from bad to worse site, all I found is some nothing-saying PDF leaflet, otherwise all the same nothing-saying politically correct phrases, which could be summed into "it is a good thing because it is a good thing". That's for transparency.

 

It's interesting how they want to bring anything to households when there are no houses in the area I wrote about. The best they came up with in the last few centuries are bricks from sun-dried mug. Even if somebody builds houses for them, they are not even able to manage them and soon turn them to ruins, as everything else anybody builds them for free. Loans? Yo joking? They are making nothing of value to sell, how can they pay anything in return?

Rly man, I thought you of all know better. First of all, there is very little actual information about where or who to will the money go. So somebody could have very nice X-mass.

 

But even with the benefit of the doubt, it is most likely one of those projects for Africa etc. What they need most is EDUCATION, including learning that nothing's for free. Usually, when they don't have water, they fight and kill each other for it. When they do (and for free), they incredibly waste with it, so soon, very soon, they don't have any again, and others too (as usually very deep dwells are drilled, which results in further lowering of the underground water level). They have not changed in this regard for millenias, they still keep the primitive system of live - masacring themselves when the population grows more than what the environment can support, and than flourishing for a while until it happens again, over and over.

 

This is pretty much the same as sending them food and medicine directly, while not sending them weapons so they can at least continue with their lifestyle as described in previous paragraph. It only makes the problem ENORMOUSLY worse. I'll pass, thank you very much, cause this is no solution, this is the very opposite: putting out a fire by pouring gasoline into it.

I don't plan on pursuing this line of conversation very far, so I'll just say the following:

 

1. I generally trust Tom's intentions and I know he has spent a lot of time researching charities in the past. I generally think about the world's problems from a much more macro level, which sees so many problems without systemic upheaval, which I see unlikely without some sort of disaster occurring, so it's kind of paralyzing to me as to what action should be taken. Meanwhile, Tom is trying to help others directly, whatever the scale of it ends up being. I think this makes him a better person than me, honestly.

 

2. Your first accusation is of this is a fly by night operation where somebody pockets the money. Considering how transparency has always been one of Tom's criteria for choosing a charity, this suggests you're not doing research on this yourself before making accusations. This makes your entire standing look inflammatory rather than based on a research or carefully reasoned argument.

 

3. Water is essential to all life on earth. Suggesting someone or a group of people need better education before they are deserving of fresh water has a very "let them eat cake" attitude towards the entire situation. If you think that there is a better use of resources than this, I'd normally say that's fine to voice that opinion, but when your main supporting argument is "nothing is for free" without a more detailed explanation of an actual solution from your perspective, what you're saying comes across simply as inflammatory rhetoric.

 

3. Regardless of the legitimacy of your points (for example, your point about the potential predatory nature of loans might be warranted, I have no idea), your entire tone is extremely accusatory if not berating. One of the rules for the forum is conducting yourself in a civil manner. I'm not against dissenting views, but I do expect adult behavior. If you can't figure how to to discuss this in a mature manner, you're going to banned. I'm trying to make it as clear as possible it's not because you have a differing view and wish to have a real discussion regarding a topic you care about, but because you seem to be wanting a fight first and foremost. There are plenty of other places on the internet for the latter.

The truth is, no matter how anybody sees it, that most charities and these non-profit organisations in last decade at least are just a great opportunity for most of the new-left individuals who do not want (and often really can) work, how to have a relatively easy life without much real work while often being able to enforce their ill theories on others (for example the environmentalism, feminacism, multiculturalism etc.) by applying pressure to politicians. It is just so easy to create an organisation which does not declare any profit by the end of the year, but their „members“ or „employees“ than „work“ couple hours a day from cafeteria for incredible salaries the whole time. Most of that payed by the tax-payers in the end. Just seen a discussion about one here in CZ, they supposedly turn about couple bilion CZK a year (!), 90% of that comes from state, EU (=state) and local self-government (=state too). Only 10 % from private donors. Being the other way around, OK, it's their money. But this is especially wrong. For that they recently "thanked" their involuntary donors using billboards with arabic texts. Not kidding you. Considering Europe is just now under muslim invasion orchestrated by the old-left politician parasites who hope to get their votes and stay in power for few more years, this would be a good joke if it was not reality. It is the same with most of the other organisations. I do not deny there may be few idealists among them, but that does not changes much. The fact remains the we taxpayers actually pay these parasites to pretty much support oppression of us, lawful-abiding citizens. While hordes who knows from where are slowly starting to plunder the continent. Indeed, there is so many similarities with the fall of the Roman empire there, this is era of decadency.

 

About the education, well, seems that you are also under this propaganda influence. Why should I actually come up with any solution? Not sure about you, but for myself, I have no obligation to any of those people. I do not own them anything, I do not have to help them in any way. Hell, we even had no colonies, even though if we did, I would myself be pround of that cause that was a time when things actually changed to better in there. I could be considered lucky to have been born here, but yeah, that is how it is. Our ancestors worked hard to build something here. Most of that is going to hell as we speak, I can see that, while most people even support that in favor of few modern trinkets (phones and similar crap), thinking how great life they have, while they barely manage to pay rent each month (there could be no question about family, case most ppl here still have at least half a brain to not bring a child into such uncertain living conditions).

 

Unfortunatelly, part of the last few generations which got most practically for free got crazy from that fact and decided for the rest that we (all) have to share that and give others, and use state governments for that. That combined with all the socialist and other leftish governments throughout the Europe, plus that shit in Brussels, who together slowly installed central plannend economy here, is drawing us down and soon it will be for the first time in a long time when the standard of living in the so-called western countries will drop. That and the huge criminality and trerorism. It is all just about to collaps, seems the ECB can not even print money fast enough to keep the thing going much longer. So we are getting deeper into our own garbage while supporting others? Makes sense. Not sure why you decided to stay here in Europe, I got the impression that this new-left ascent to power combined with the political correctness actually happened in the US some time ago (by the end of 90s maybe) so it is not bearable there in most places anymore, but the exact thing is happening here right now and if nothing else, I can at least say that and maybe open eyes to few other people.

 

As for Africa and especially sub-saharan Africa, things go down the toilet there about from the time when the UK left the colonies. Since than, combined with all the medical and food help, we see population explosion, cause as I implied, them do not care of they life in a dirt with nowhere to live, nothing to drink or eat; they just continue to have more and more children. This just does not work and it is NO HELP in the medium term, not to mention long-term. When now we have few hundred million to take care of, in a decade it will be half a bilion and in two or three decades it will reach a billion! How is that help when if you feed one, soon you have two-three instead and each has less than before (or you have to provide more)? They have to (re)invent civilisation in there first, cause as I already said, what they used to do for centuries is massacre themselves for natural resources and than flourish fora while until repeated. (Meanwhile in harsher parts of the world, others invented technology to help them survive - to build better houses, to get more and better crop, clean water, etc.). Call it whatever you want, but this is the cold truth: any such "help" under current situation only makes it WORSE unless they change their lifestyle. It is sad that so many people get blinded so easily and can not think racionally about any of that.

 

After all, our ancestors did not survive by throwing their own over board and supporting foreigners. Quite the very contrary. What our governments are doing right now is killing this civilisation in favor of foreigners. My three-cent opinion anyway, time to get some sleep now

3. Water is essential to all life on earth. Suggesting someone or a group of people need better education before they are deserving of fresh water has a very "let them eat cake" attitude towards the entire situation.

With all due respect, I completely disagree with you here.

 

1) A lot of things are essential to all life on earth. Lebensraum, for example. Saying "we must send them water because they deserve it no matter what their education is" is one step away from saying "we must squeeze together a bit and make some room for them, because they deserve a good place to live no matter what their education is".

 

2) A lot of places have little drinking water, there is nothing special about Africa in this regard. Many arabic countries are basically deserts. And yet they are prospering. Why? Well, to put it bluntly, because people there are educated. They treat what little resources they have wisely and sparingly, instead of blindly exhausting them like there is no tomorrow. But what's more important, they know to not breed like rabbits, ensuring overpopulation, hunger and thirst. The result is an extremely well-sustainable society that was existing in harmony with its harsh arid environment for millennia.

 

3) What does all this have to do with the Marie Antoinette quote? It was about government's detachment from the needs of its people, about whom it was obliged to care about. We are talking about the needs of an utterly unrelated group of people, towards whom we have absolutely no obligations whatsoever.

Well, about arabic countries, I'll slightly correct it…the thing is, some of them (the ruling cast at least) are educated at least high enough to know what they have and don't have. So especially the Saudis, they pretty much used to trade oil for everything they did not have, incl. manpower willing to work (there is many ppl from Asia working there), ppl to run the sophisticated equipment (often engineers from India or Pakistan, and ofc Iran as Iranians are not arabs!) and highly educated ppl from Europe or US of A to build those things. Than they pretty much corrupt the part of their own citizens which will never properly work (or even do damage; if they do something usefull, it's more like services; note how many of the actual arabs do trade or something similar, and how little do some actual work) by some kind of minimum income so they mostly sit in front of the door and smoke something in a pipe the whole day. Problem is, as the price of oil went so down, things begin to crumble there so we may see some wild things going there in the near feature…Saudi's made many enemies so they could pretty much cease to exist the moment all the other families learn they could no longer maintain control.

 

But yeah, it actually is quite similar in Arabia or Africa. Something as democracy (not that it is a good system by far, anyway) won't work for absolute majority in there. It is a simple fact that mostly just autocratic regimes work there, no matter it its some kind of dictatorship or monarchy. Just see what happens if you remove the dictator, say Hussein or Kaddafi. Somebody thinks it is now better in there than it used to be for average citizen?

 

ADD// a crystal clear example of how thankful are http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-13/professors-its-not-okay-be-white

The truth is, no matter how anybody sees it, that most charities and these non-profit organisations in last decade at least are just a great opportunity for most of the new-left individuals who do not want (and often really can) work, how to have a relatively easy life without much real work while often being able to enforce their ill theories on others (for example the environmentalism, feminacism, multiculturalism etc.) by applying pressure to politicians. It is just so easy to create an organisation which does not declare any profit by the end of the year, but their „members“ or „employees“ than „work“ couple hours a day from cafeteria for incredible salaries the whole time. Most of that payed by the tax-payers in the end. Just seen a discussion about one here in CZ, they supposedly turn about couple bilion CZK a year (!), 90% of that comes from state, EU (=state) and local self-government (=state too). Only 10 % from private donors. Being the other way around, OK, it's their money. But this is especially wrong. For that they recently "thanked" their involuntary donors using billboards with arabic texts. Not kidding you. Considering Europe is just now under muslim invasion orchestrated by the old-left politician parasites who hope to get their votes and stay in power for few more years, this would be a good joke if it was not reality. It is the same with most of the other organisations. I do not deny there may be few idealists among them, but that does not changes much. The fact remains the we taxpayers actually pay these parasites to pretty much support oppression of us, lawful-abiding citizens. While hordes who knows from where are slowly starting to plunder the continent. Indeed, there is so many similarities with the fall of the Roman empire there, this is era of decadency.

 

About the education, well, seems that you are also under this propaganda influence. Why should I actually come up with any solution? Not sure about you, but for myself, I have no obligation to any of those people. I do not own them anything, I do not have to help them in any way. Hell, we even had no colonies, even though if we did, I would myself be pround of that cause that was a time when things actually changed to better in there. I could be considered lucky to have been born here, but yeah, that is how it is. Our ancestors worked hard to build something here. Most of that is going to hell as we speak, I can see that, while most people even support that in favor of few modern trinkets (phones and similar crap), thinking how great life they have, while they barely manage to pay rent each month (there could be no question about family, case most ppl here still have at least half a brain to not bring a child into such uncertain living conditions).

 

Unfortunatelly, part of the last few generations which got most practically for free got crazy from that fact and decided for the rest that we (all) have to share that and give others, and use state governments for that. That combined with all the socialist and other leftish governments throughout the Europe, plus that shit in Brussels, who together slowly installed central plannend economy here, is drawing us down and soon it will be for the first time in a long time when the standard of living in the so-called western countries will drop. That and the huge criminality and trerorism. It is all just about to collaps, seems the ECB can not even print money fast enough to keep the thing going much longer. So we are getting deeper into our own garbage while supporting others? Makes sense. Not sure why you decided to stay here in Europe, I got the impression that this new-left ascent to power combined with the political correctness actually happened in the US some time ago (by the end of 90s maybe) so it is not bearable there in most places anymore, but the exact thing is happening here right now and if nothing else, I can at least say that and maybe open eyes to few other people.

 

As for Africa and especially sub-saharan Africa, things go down the toilet there about from the time when the UK left the colonies. Since than, combined with all the medical and food help, we see population explosion, cause as I implied, them do not care of they life in a dirt with nowhere to live, nothing to drink or eat; they just continue to have more and more children. This just does not work and it is NO HELP in the medium term, not to mention long-term. When now we have few hundred million to take care of, in a decade it will be half a bilion and in two or three decades it will reach a billion! How is that help when if you feed one, soon you have two-three instead and each has less than before (or you have to provide more)? They have to (re)invent civilisation in there first, cause as I already said, what they used to do for centuries is massacre themselves for natural resources and than flourish fora while until repeated. (Meanwhile in harsher parts of the world, others invented technology to help them survive - to build better houses, to get more and better crop, clean water, etc.). Call it whatever you want, but this is the cold truth: any such "help" under current situation only makes it WORSE unless they change their lifestyle. It is sad that so many people get blinded so easily and can not think racionally about any of that.

 

After all, our ancestors did not survive by throwing their own over board and supporting foreigners. Quite the very contrary. What our governments are doing right now is killing this civilisation in favor of foreigners. My three-cent opinion anyway, time to get some sleep now

Look, you've come in here with an antagonistic tone, have been shifting your goalposts:

 

From what I'm reading, you first said it's a scam because it's not transparent. After Tom establishes it is transparent, you're saying it's a scam because most charities are without provide direct evidence that it is. It also sounds like you're coupling that with saying that even if it is legitimate, it shouldn't even exist anyway. Now, you're going off on a tangent about Arabic countries when this charity literally doesn't operate there, essentially hijacking the thread. Whether you're intending to or not, what you are doing is high-level trolling. You're being antagonistic, hijacking a thread, and making accusations against a charity and myself without providing direct evidence. That's the most important part. If an organization or person is corrupt, I of course support substantiated accusations of that nature. But that's not what you're doing. You're taking a guilty until proven innocent approach to this, which is not how civilized people conduct themselves. I warned you that this would lead to a ban, so you are banned on the forums for the time being.

 

It doesn't help that you're accusing me of falling for propaganda without trying to clarify my world views in the first place, doubly so when everything you've said has been rhetoric. Unless you can provide evidence that water.org specifically is in fact, a scam (I realized you're banned, but you can email me if so), what you're doing is vitriolic.

 

Now that said, my own world views are that our entire system is collapsing due to us have many misguided priorities. I don't want to get into that here. I see what Tom is doing like the equivalent of a soup kitchen. It won't solve larger systemic poverty problems, but it can make life better for a few people temporarily. I'm certainly not AGAINST that unless it's directly competing against a viable long term solution. All you said was "more education" then left it at that. The fact that you didn't list a charity you thought was more deserving towards making an impact says to me you're not really concerned with solving problems, but rather tearing down imperfect ones. I ran into a similar situation in my robot jobs video. Every single person who criticized it did not offer a realistic solution in its place, only to attack potential ones. This is the antithesis of progress in my eyes. I'll take imperfect solutions over NO solutions to problems any day.

 

With all due respect, I completely disagree with you here.

 

1) A lot of things are essential to all life on earth. Lebensraum, for example. Saying "we must send them water because they deserve it no matter what their education is" is one step away from saying "we must squeeze together a bit and make some room for them, because they deserve a good place to live no matter what their education is".

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Like I said above, I think it's a nice gesture that could help people temporarily. I did not come up with this charity, I was just trying to help out Tom, which has led to something far more controversial than I would like. My personal politics are all about humanity surviving as a species, sustainably. You can argue that education is the answer to that region, maybe it is, maybe a lot more is needed. The point I was trying to make is it is undeniable that people die in the meantime while a solution is still sought after. Tom's charity is trying to address it from a short term immediate approach. So I can agree, it's possible this may have no helpful long term consequences (I honestly don't know enough about the charity to make that call and I'm not sure anyone else in this thread besides Tom does), however it's also highly probable this could save people's lives in the short term, however few.

 

If I was supreme dictator, I would focus on domestically ensuring everyone has clean water (something we're very much NOT doing, hell Detroit alone I would consider eligible for humanitarian aid for water), THEN work our way outwards for the rest of the world. However, that's a fantasy scenario, we're going the opposite direction. Again, like the other guy, I say the burden is on you that if you think this charity is a poor use of resources, it's up to you to point towards one you think would be a better use of resources. I imagine Tom has done more research on this than everyone else in this thread combined.

 

2) A lot of places have little drinking water, there is nothing special about Africa in this regard. Many arabic countries are basically deserts. And yet they are prospering. Why? Well, to put it bluntly, because people there are educated. They treat what little resources they have wisely and sparingly, instead of blindly exhausting them like there is no tomorrow. But what's more important, they know to not breed like rabbits, ensuring overpopulation, hunger and thirst. The result is an extremely well-sustainable society that was existing in harmony with its harsh arid environment for millennia.

Bring this up as a separate thread if you want in the serious discussion section, but there are an incredible number of variables from one nation to the next at play. Do not bring this up here. Again, either provide actual solutions for people, or expose the corruption of the organization directly with evidence if you think they're in the wrong. Otherwise, this is derailing the thread, which I'm against in this case (I don't care so much if non-serious topics get derailed in the forums).

 

 

3) What does all this have to do with the Marie Antoinette quote? It was about government's detachment from the needs of its people, about whom it was obliged to care about.

The idea being that you need to be able to survive to even get an education to begin with. It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario, but the reality is at least some people die because of lack of clean water before they're ever eligible for education.

 

We are talking about the needs of an utterly unrelated group of people, towards whom we have absolutely no obligations whatsoever.

As is the case with pretty much every charitable effort, ever. That's the whole concept behind charity, it's unobligated.

 

 

EDIT:

 

TLDR: I thought of a simpler way to explain my views on this. I see this as similar to a cop responding to crime reports or an EMT trying to rescue people. On the macro scale, what they do is likely to make an insignificant difference and will not solve any systemic problems. Crime may get worse, people may have worse health habits, but for the individuals they do help, it's all the difference in the world. So you can say because somebody smokes, the EMT shouldn't help them because they're a lost cause anyway, or because somebody lives in a bad neighborhood, they shouldn't have police services, but without an actual solution for the people in these situations, that comes across as rather mean spirited to actively PREVENT the people helping others without a better solution presented.

Ross, the Vivaldi browser does let you middle click to close a tab and to disable the close tab buttons. Sadly it lacks scrolling tabs and operates on the inferior "shrink to fit" method. I know several ex-firefox users have asked for scrolling tabs, so hopefully that can happen.

Not even the Mongols can breach this great wall of text.

Bring this up as a separate thread if you want in the serious discussion section, but there are an incredible number of variables from one nation to the next at play. Do not bring this up here.

Okay, I think I'll just back off and go do something useful with my life.

I hoped the podcast went great!