Earth is primitive.

[ProHypster]

So we just give everything away to others and keep just enough for ourselves. Even though we worked to get that stuff and they didn't do anything.

 

Work to improve.. Yeah i know this won't work, since most people are way to selfish. But of course i understand people want a reward for working hard, how about food ? Place to live ? Eh, who am i kidding? Its to late for anything like that...

 

= Life in The Soviet Union in the 1960's - 80's....

 

It just doesn't work untill everyone in the world is willing to do this. One country trying a system like that on it's own can't succeed because of the pressure from other countries to use the traditional system. The whole system falls apart in the end. I'm proud that at least we tried to make it work, of course we got a lot of problems but we were pioneers and if you look at the 60's/70's of the soviet union you can see that the system can work...

 

Many other countries aren't even willing to give up their luxury for equality.

[Doublenature]

So we just give everything away to others and keep just enough for ourselves. Even though we worked to get that stuff and they didn't do anything.

 

Work to improve.. Yeah i know this won't work, since most people are way to selfish. But of course i understand people want a reward for working hard, how about food ? Place to live ? Eh, who am i kidding? Its to late for anything like that...

 

= Life in The Soviet Union in the 1960's - 80's....

 

It just doesn't work untill everyone in the world is willing to do this. One country trying a system like that on it's own can't succeed because of the pressure from other countries to use the traditional system. The whole system falls apart in the end. I'm proud that at least we tried to make it work, of course we got a lot of problems but we were pioneers and if you look at the 60's/70's of the soviet union you can see that the system can work...

 

Many other countries aren't even willing to give up their luxury for equality.

 

 

Yes, everyone has to be willing to do it, but i doubt that it will happen. Im just wishing the world was like this. But then again, the US will probably interfer because they're "afraid" of communism....

[Michael Archer]

the US will probably interfer because they're "afraid" of communism....

 

And how exactly is that a bad thing?

[Doublenature]

the US will probably interfer because they're "afraid" of communism....

 

And how exactly is that a bad thing?

 

Thats a bad thing because some people LIKE communism. So just because the US are afraid of it, they're gonna invade the country ? From what has happened the last 60 years thats a clear yes.

[Princess Luna]

Sounds like a pretty hard rant... the world pissing you off? Read the stickied post (12 page research paper) for more info on oil.

[Doom Shepherd]

the US will probably interfer because they're "afraid" of communism....

 

And how exactly is that a bad thing?

 

Thats a bad thing because some people LIKE communism. So just because the US are afraid of it, they're gonna invade the country ? From what has happened the last 60 years thats a clear yes.

Some people like ingesting large amounts of brain-destroying substances. Just because some people like a stupid thing, it will not stop being a stupid thing, nor does it mean that they should be allowed to engage in it or to attempt to force others to go along.

 

Great gods, deliver me from people who are so historically ignorant that they don't even know that the Communists did a hell of a lot more nation-invading than the US ever managed. Hell, Cuba ALONE sent troops to a dozen countries during the Cold War.

 

$&@#ing genocidal sociopolitical philosophy...

 

(See? I can rant too.).

[Doublenature]

Great gods, deliver me from people who are so historically ignorant that they don't even know that the Communists did a hell of a lot more nation-invading than the US ever managed. Hell, Cuba ALONE sent troops to a dozen countries during the Cold War.

 

$&@#ing genocidal sociopolitical philosophy...

 

(See? I can rant too.).

 

 

Haha yes that is also very true. I was not only refering to the US, it was more of an example (Russia did some damage aswell.... And as you said: Cuba).

[Doom Shepherd]

I was not only refering to the US, it was more of an example.

 

It's good (and smart) to be very clear about that particular point. After all, the US does not exist in a vacuum.

 

Everybody meddles.

[Kyon]

This thread reeks of communism, I like communism.

[st ef you]

Communism is an excellent system, but our global society now (If you want to call it that) is still far from ready to support such a system. Case and point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cF4p_pMfcs (Embedding disabled)

 

Also, think of the vast amounts of resources available in our solar system yet how little our governments are focusing on funding for space exploration and terraforming other planets.

[Michael Archer]

the US will probably interfer because they're "afraid" of communism....

 

And how exactly is that a bad thing?

 

Thats a bad thing because some people LIKE communism. So just because the US are afraid of it, they're gonna invade the country ? From what has happened the last 60 years thats a clear yes.

 

So what? Communism means making the masses into slaves. It doesn't matter if there are a few nutjobs who like that; if some people don't want to be slaves, you have no right to force them.

 

Communism is an excellent system

 

Are we talking about the same system? Communism is the system of altruism--the system that says that man has no right to exist for his own sake.

 

Putting a gun to an individual's head and dictating the terms of their life, their work and their effort is immoral in every sense. There is no situation where this can be a good system.

[BTGBullseye]

And how exactly is that a bad thing?

 

Thats a bad thing because some people LIKE communism. So just because the US are afraid of it, they're gonna invade the country ? From what has happened the last 60 years thats a clear yes.

 

So what? Communism means making the masses into slaves. It doesn't matter if there are a few nutjobs who like that; if some people don't want to be slaves, you have no right to force them.

 

Communism is an excellent system

 

Are we talking about the same system? Communism is the system of altruism--the system that says that man has no right to exist for his own sake.

 

Putting a gun to an individual's head and dictating the terms of their life, their work and their effort is immoral in every sense. There is no situation where this can be a good system.

You're doing the same thing with communism that you're doing in the discussion about anarchy... Taking worst-case scenarios and twisting them to be it's main precepts.

 

Communism is not a bad system, just impossible for our current world to utilize correctly. You want to know what a communist system really looks like when properly implemented, go watch Star Trek: The Next Generation... The United Federation of Planets is actually a communist government.

[Vapymid]

if you look at the 60's/70's of the soviet union you can see that the system can work...

 

Sorry to disappoint you but the system clearly did NOT work. The USSR has only lasted as long as it did because it could trade resources against products with other countries. On its own the USSR could not even feed its own population.

 

The basic problem was that the economy did not have feedback from consumption to production as its signals were hopelessly distorted and blocked by extremely invasive (in the market sense) system of redistribution of wealth and intermingling of political and economic governance. Innovation in any areas was suppressed because it disrupted the attempts to correlate plans with economic output in the absence of market signals. Lack of segregation of powers led to absence of checks and balances in making investment decisions ranging from industrial to social to scientific aspects.

 

As the result, products which were needed were not produced, unneeded products were overproduced. Research in areas vital for future development and growth was blocked in favour of wild goose chases initiated on personal whims of the oligarchic elite.

 

Only the ability to exchange raw materials for technology, ideas and state-of-the-art products with the rest of the world kept USSR going for so long after the world war II.

 

The "socialist" regime was needed to kick Russia out of its backward social and economic state into the 20th century. Without it Russia would never have survived WWII. But then the system quickly outlived its use-by date...

 

Communism is not a bad system, just impossible for our current world to utilize correctly.

 

Communism is impossible, period. Even Marx realised that. The formula "from each - according to his abilities, to each - according to his needs" implies infinite supply of resources (of all kinds) because the combined needs of all will always exceed the total product (there is more to it than that but that's the main principle).

 

What is considered "communism" today has nothing to do with the actual principle - it's just a term used to refer to a certain kind of authoritarian socio-economic state existing in some countries.

 

Regards

[ProHypster]

if you look at the 60's/70's of the soviet union you can see that the system can work...

 

Sorry to disappoint you but the system clearly did NOT work. The USSR has only lasted as long as it did because it could trade resources against products with other countries. On its own the USSR could not even feed its own population.

 

The basic problem was that the economy did not have feedback from consumption to production as its signals were hopelessly distorted and blocked by extremely invasive (in the market sense) system of redistribution of wealth and intermingling of political and economic governance. Innovation in any areas was suppressed because it disrupted the attempts to correlate plans with economic output in the absence of market signals. Lack of segregation of powers led to absence of checks and balances in making investment decisions ranging from industrial to social to scientific aspects.

 

As the result, products which were needed were not produced, unneeded products were overproduced. Research in areas vital for future development and growth was blocked in favour of wild goose chases initiated on personal whims of the oligarchic elite.

 

Only the ability to exchange raw materials for technology, ideas and state-of-the-art products with the rest of the world kept USSR going for so long after the world war II.

 

The "socialist" regime was needed to kick Russia out of its backward social and economic state into the 20th century. Without it Russia would never have survived WWII. But then the system quickly outlived its use-by date...

 

Well I agree with that almost completely, I agree there needed something to be done anyways due to it's backwards social and economic state with the czars. Still somewhere in the between 1966-1976 there was some moments were it looked like it worked that was my point and that is all that is needed. I do know they traded most of the stuff they needed badly , they didn't trade food though and I'm sure they would survive but yes invention and ideas got lost due to the state trying to do that themselves...

 

But since the collapse not much has changed, they still have to trade with america for computer technology stuff and with other countries like japan and germany for cars as retty much every other country. The point is to survive in our environment one must trade since we are a trading planet right now..

 

But still if you look at the EU......

[Vapymid]

Still somewhere in the between 1966-1976 there was some moments were it looked like it worked

 

Certainly for the population it did. But structurally it was the time when exports of minerals (especially oil during the 70s crises) generated enough revenue to support foreign trade and cover domestic military spending.

 

But even towards the end of 70s I began to notice things starting to disappear from grocery shop shelves...

 

they didn't trade food though

 

USSR was a major importer of grain, meat and poultry. Largely due to the distortions in agriculture introduced by Khruschev but also because of the general low efficiency of collective farming.

 

But since the collapse not much has changed

 

Actually, I think a lot has changed but things are far from over... It will take probably a decade or two for Russia and Ukraine (and other ex-USSR countries) to complete their transformation and find their new place in the world.

 

Regards

[ProHypster]

Still somewhere in the between 1966-1976 there was some moments were it looked like it worked

 

Certainly for the population it did. But structurally it was the time when exports of minerals (especially oil during the 70s crises) generated enough revenue to support foreign trade and cover domestic military spending.

 

But even towards the end of 70s I began to notice things starting to disappear from grocery shop shelves...

 

they didn't trade food though

 

USSR was a major importer of grain, meat and poultry. Largely due to the distortions in agriculture introduced by Khruschev but also because of the general low efficiency of collective farming.

 

But since the collapse not much has changed

 

Actually, I think a lot has changed but things are far from over... It will take probably a decade or two for Russia and Ukraine (and other ex-USSR countries) to complete their transformation and find their new place in the world.

 

Regards

Where are you from Vapymid? Are you from an ex-USSR country like me? :D

 

Anyway, good info, didn't really think USSR needed to trade food but yes I checked and apparently they did have to... on the other hand I don't know if any country could supply themselves at this moment if they stopped trading, oh and about the transformation, I was talking about the trade really. Foreign Trade still remains the same even more you see...

 

Anyway I would plus rep you but I don't have any points

[Vapymid]

Where are you from Vapymid? Are you from an ex-USSR country like me?

 

Yep. From Russia, originally. Now live and work in the UK.

 

Foreign Trade still remains the same even more you see...

 

Of course I agree - trade is not a bad thing as such. In fact, quite the opposite. But if you consistently have to buy grain for years, then change your economic system and become a major net exporter of the same grain that, I think, put things in perspective...

 

Regards

[Ian]

I mean, America invade countries all the time to get oil (no question about it) but they say that "we want to help". Yeah right..

 

I mean the US are all such "proud" christians, and the muslims are all terrorists (according to the US).

How do we get oil from invading countries? Who said all Muslims are terrorists?

[Luis]

I mean, America invade countries all the time to get oil (no question about it) but they say that "we want to help". Yeah right..

 

I mean the US are all such "proud" christians, and the muslims are all terrorists (according to the US).

How do we get oil from invading countries? Who said all Muslims are terrorists?

 

I think it should be clear that soldiers don't invade countries to get oil, or other resources. No. They invade countries because they are following what they were ordered to do. It's the politicians that give orders the ones who are said to invade countries with those interests. You, as many other citizens of the U.S may not be completely aware of why your leaders do stuff like that. It's not like they're completely honest, as they should. Not a single human in the planet is.

 

Now, It has been stated in the medias that Saddam Hussein wanted to control the areas where the oil shipments to the rest of the world took place. Imagine what would happen if those shipments suddenly stopped. How'd our almost completely dependant society would react? That could be a reason for the US to invade, or something way darker that none of us can prove. The US government has done some evil and hideous things in the past, I'm sorry but it wouldn't be surprising if they did something like invade a country just to take control over resources.

[Axeldeath]

The day Western powers stop exploiting poor countries for resources is the day our civilization falls.