DEAD GAME NEWS: THE CREW

[Deep Dive Devin]

Quote

I wanted to know how to join the request for users in this case scammed by Ubisoft?

Ross wants you to email the address in the video, [email protected]

 

But I think you posting here probably means he'll see it at some point so you should be good.

[beretguy]

For the record, Louis Rossmann - YouTuber with 2M subscribers mentioned above - mentioned Ross’s video:

 

https://inv.tux.pizza/watch?v=o7wl6qYNrJc

 

Hopefully this could give more exposure to this problem and AF channel. 

[daisekihan]

Ross might try contacting Yahtzee / Second Wind to signal boost this issue. I got the impression that he and Ross had a rapport from when they resolved an issue where Yahtzee borrowed a phrase from Freeman's Mind without realizing it and apologized once Ross called it out.

[The_Corvair]

Alright, created an account just to be able to tell the following to Ross:

 

1. Ross, there is a Youtube lawyer with specialized knowledge and interest in corporate and gaming law: Richard Hoeg of Hoeg Law (https://www.youtube.com/@HoegLaw).

His bread and butter are contract situations and legal disputes in the gaming world, such as Epic vs Apple, the Microsoft-Activison merger, AI and copyright situations, and digital ownership. If there is one person I know that not only can give you a sound perspective in terms of US contract law, but is in it for their love of video games, it would be him. I would love to see a hangout stream with you and him (and maybe some others).

 

2. Regardless of how this entire planned Class Action pans out: I think people who value digital ownership should be the change they want to see. I have bought nary a game on Steam for years now, and do 95% of my shopping in terms of games on GOG. It is shocking (shocking!) how little air time and mention that store gets, and how few people even know about it.

Maybe creators should make a concerted effort to raise awareness that an alternative does exist where you can own your games in at least so far as they can't be taken from you once you bought them (and downloaded their installer).

 

4. In the EU, there is case law that already started on the process of "you do own your digital product": Oracle versus UsedSoft. Oracle tried to get UsedSoft to stop selling used licenses because they felt UsedSoft had no right to. The court found that purchase even of a license comes implicitly with ownership of a working copy (which UsedSoft was within their rights to sell on). This, to my interpretation, could be important case law for other decisions in the EU at least, even if the subject matter is not the exact same (the case was about software in the wider sense, not games specifically).

 

 

Best regards, The Corvair

[kerdios]

@The_Corvair  what are your impressions of the gog galaxy client compared to the steam and epic games clients?

Edited January 30 by kerdios (see edit history)

[The_Corvair]

@kerdios I'm afraid I cannot tell you; The unique feature of GOG is that it sells games with DRM only - and that means those games work without a launcher - and as such, I simply don't use it, and can't compare.

[mrglanet]

@The_CorvairDo email Ross at his personal email as well to make sure he 100% sees your message! You can find it by clicking "contact" at the bottom of the page.

 

Update: It seems Ross had a conversation with him some time after Ross made his "Games as a service is fraud" video: 

So Ross is aware and might still be connected. But it wouldn't hurt to remind him.

Edited January 30 by mrglanet (see edit history)

[Rarefoil]

 

If there's any such internet gaming person to contact regarding this, I think Stephanie Sterling could be a good shot. She actually promoted the "Games as a Service is Fraud" video when it first got published, very much on Ross's side concerning this issue, and when dealing with that Digital Homicide guy, she actually talked to and paid a REAL lawyer. Granted, she did said it was pretty expensive, but the experience at least could be invaluable.

 

Or not. Who knows. 

In other news, on that Steam Discussion board Ross showed, someone actually found a German gaming website article that discussed the video, and outlined what Ross's intentions and instructions were.
https://www.play3.de/2024/01/23/the-crew-eine-rechtliche-grauzone-abschaltung-der-server-koennte-klage-nach-sich-ziehen/

...Maybe someone should add German subtitles to the video?

[ScumCoder]

Quote

what are your impressions of the gog galaxy client compared to the steam and epic games clients?

The #1 impression of the gog galaxy client compared to the steam and epic games clients is that you do not need it.

 

Some part of me still thinks that even making GOG Galaxy was a mistake, because by the very way of its existence it incentivizes people to make completely nonsensical comparisons like the above - no matter how clearly GOG advertises that Galaxy is a 100% optional piece of software and not a yet another launcher used to implement DRM.

 

I want less crap on my PC. Being able to just install and run the game, without any additional launchers (which for decades used to be the normal way to do things), is the #2 reason I prefer GOG to any other game store.

[kerdios]

Quote

no matter how clearly GOG advertises that Galaxy is a 100% optional piece of software and not a yet another launcher used to implement DRM.

I think people like using these clients also because of the connection to community (chat, forum, etc...) and for the achievement collection and display (re-morgaine).
They also have made slightly less intuitive to find the direct installation files as the big purple "download" button actually leads to the client download instead and you have to dig a bit deeper to find the real installation ones.

[Rarefoil]

I think the reason people are comparing Galaxy to Steam is because the way they use Steam is basically as a hub to access, manage, and control all the gaming they ever do on a PC, all in one convenient hub. And people DO find it convenient, I feel that's just been proven empirically.

...Of course, to counter this, you already have an convenient hub to access everything gaming-wise on your PC - it's called Windows. 

That's one of the primary reasons Windows became a thing in the first place - a hub to access and manage all your programs without dealing with DOS. 
Maybe the proliferation of all these gaming launcher apps more so speaks to the Windows UI and structure being just so unwieldly and unoptimal that using such programs is an upgrade over doing it only through Windows.

For the record, I try to mainly buy through GOG when I do digital as well, and also have never used Galaxy and just stuck to the individual files. Still, my PC is an unorganized mess, so hoping into a game is arguably quicker on Steam for me than trying to find the shortcut or going to the file in Windows Explorer. But I feel like I can do better, and maybe I can avoid succumbing to Galaxy if I just clean things up.

 

Anyway, those are just my random thoughts.
To try to go back to The Crew, a thought I've also had: does Ross's survey include used sales or even Steam code sales from third-party sites? Or is it just people who bought new or bought digital directly, because those will pack the most punch? I'm actually thinking of buying The Crew perhaps soon via one of those methods, for if nothing else, IF the crack does emerge one day, I'll be able to take advantage of it.

[Delicieuxz]

@The_Corvair

 

Ross is aware of Richard Hoeg and Hoeg's Law. Ross went on Hoeg's channel for a video discussion with him following Ross' Games as a Service is Fraud video, as his GaaSIF video stirred-up a bunch of industry lawyers. But Hoeg is pretty solidly on the side against game ownership as a right, and is at minimum a bit of a shill for big publishers. When someone makes their money and career advocating for the other side's viewpoints and interests, they aren't going to be a great source to get help from when you are trying to challenge those interests. And asking a software-industry lawyer for views on what's what is asking to to be told publisher propaganda.

[polymerize-finale]

Quote

A petition for the EFF to respond to Ross's emails might have better luck

 

EFF did actually reply to Ross (source: haruspicy), so that's not necessary.

 

Unfortunately, the liver wasn't clear enough for me to tell if anything useful came of it. Maybe @Ross Scottcould clarify?