Human Cloning & Biological Weapons

[ProHypster]

1. I know what MAD is... in fact history is one of my favourite subjects, that sort of insulted me...

 

MAD however, is both a defense at the level when no nukes are deployed, but once nukes are deployed it's a destruction of the world. Let's not forget this is still due to technology.

 

(If I don't know something I will research it and/or type it here, but don't tell me to research something, because you assume I don't know. You've done that several times...)

 

2. Ok, let's just assume it is although I don't know how you can be so sure of that.... The best Kevlar in no way matches the best assault rifle.. The best Tank is crap compared to the best land missiles, the best fortress can be defeated by the best artillery.

 

3. Pollution is an indirect technological consequence, I don't care though wether it's indirect or direct, it will happen, it's not like I'm blaming technology for it, I'm just trying to see if we should prevent the indirect wether that means stopping technology in that subject or not. Or rather, since we probably won't prevent technology, it's something necessary for humans, I'm trying to see what I should tell my kids on that matter, whether I should prepare my family for this type of shit or not.

 

And what you said about "Real life doesn't work that way" just sounds ignorant to me. Are you saying it's an impossible thing to create something smarter or better then we are? Look around you, everything invented is in one way better than us. That's the purpose of invention. Look at your computer, it can calculate much faster then you. If we make a human that's better than us in being human... well think for yourself, he will do what we will do.. just better.

[danielsangeo]

1. I know what MAD is... in fact history is one of my favourite subjects, that sort of insulted me...

 

I apologize if I insulted you; it was not my intention. I was mainly elaborating if anyone didn't know. It's just how I do things. If I repeat something you already know, just ignore it because my intention is to clarify for anyone reading this that doesn't know what I or you are talking about. Easier to do it in thread than have someone stop what they're doing and research a word or topic.

 

I talk in person or in private (one-on-one) differently than I talk in 'public'. It's just my way. Again, I apologize.

 

MAD however, is both a defense at the level when no nukes are deployed, but once nukes are deployed it's a destruction of the world. Let's not forget this is still due to technology.

 

This assumes that they would ever deploy the nukes.

 

2. Ok, let's just assume it is although I don't know how you can be so sure of that.... The best Kevlar in no way matches the best assault rifle.. The best Tank is crap compared compared to the best land missiles, the best fortress can be defeated by the best artillery.

 

The best defense is a good offense.

 

I'm not saying that we won't get our ass kicked, but it doesn't mean that will be destroyed either...and if you kick our ass, baby, you'd better be ready to meet any maker you might believe in!

 

3. Pollution is an indirect technological consequence, I don't care though wether it's indirect or direct, it will happen, it's not like I'm blaming technology for it, I'm just trying to see if we should prevent the indirect wether that means stopping technology in that subject or not. Or rather, since we probably won't prevent technology, it's something necessary for humans, I'm trying to see what I should tell my kids on that matter, whether I should prepare my family for this type of shit or not.

 

I would say to them "Try not to worry about it; we've got our best minds working around the clock to protect us from harm." This kind of stuff has been happening since the "caveman" days. And we're still here.

 

As for pollution, we can stop it from happening. Right now. But certain ideological forces say that it would cost too much money and cost jobs. The technology is there (again) to stop the pollution that technology created....if only we'd use it.

[Song]

We will totally get our ass kicked.

Some Humans might survive, probably in slavery or hidden underground

like rats, but the 'civilization' as we know it will vanish, replaced by a

new one build on the bones of the old one.

Just as we always did it.

 

If we create 'enhanced humans' AND educate and raise them with the

same values we raised ourself for the last couple millennia, then

these new humans will see us as inferior, not worthy of equal treatment,

just as we do it all the time with other beings we see as inferior.

 

It will lead to a genocide of the weaker. In a war (the easier way) or

steadily over time (the cleaner way) doesn't matter, the old mankind will

vanish nonetheless.

 

So lets hope that when we can 'enhance mankind', that we will be ready for

the responsibility and have removed traits like hatred, greed and envy a long

time ago at that time.

[WonSul]

Where is this notion of destruction coming from? The greatest minds in our world aren't the largest portion of killers and destruction seeking maniacs.

 

And does seeing something inferior make you want to kill it?

I don't know of anyone within my relations that has felt that way about any disabled person, whether within my relations or outside of it. A disabled person is cared for, not sent to execution. Or at least that is the modern world.

[ProHypster]

Where is this notion of destruction coming from? The greatest minds in our world aren't the largest portion of killers and destruction seeking maniacs.

 

And does seeing something inferior make you want to kill it?

I don't know of anyone within my relations that has felt that way about any disabled person, whether within my relations or outside of it. A disabled person is cared for, not sent to execution. Or at least that is the modern world.

Let's look at it this way:

Why do we even have wars?

 

Disagreement in culture, rights, etc and the surge for power

 

Would a smarter person disagree with us?

 

Most likely

 

Do smarter people want power?

 

I think it depends on not intelligence but corruption or disagreement. See first point.

 

Even without wars, wouldn't we vanish steadily just like post above yours if we allow a smarter human species to reproduce. Remember neanderthals? I think there is only one place for an intelligent and social species on a planet. By the way I should publish that theory with support if no one did yet . The one intelligent social species on the planet theory.

[WonSul]

Where is this notion of destruction coming from? The greatest minds in our world aren't the largest portion of killers and destruction seeking maniacs.

 

And does seeing something inferior make you want to kill it?

I don't know of anyone within my relations that has felt that way about any disabled person, whether within my relations or outside of it. A disabled person is cared for, not sent to execution. Or at least that is the modern world.

Let's look at it this way:

Why do we even have wars?

 

Disagreement in culture, rights, etc and the surge for power

 

Would a smarter person disagree with us?

 

Most likely

 

Do smarter people want power?

 

I think it depends on not intelligence but corruption or disagreement. See first point.

 

Even without wars, wouldn't we vanish steadily just like post above yours if we allow a smarter human species to reproduce. Remember neanderthals? I think there is only one place for an intelligent and social species on a planet. By the way I should publish that theory with support if no one did yet . The one intelligent social species on the planet theory.

 

If our fate is to become a new species through interbreeding with our own creations I can't say I particularly care. It's not a very appealing prospect to me due to the almost 100% guarantee that the enhanced humans would have flaws because of a lack of complete understanding of Genetics and it's modification. The kind of flaws I'm talking about are of course significant flaws that may mean the difference between a species that is adaptable, fertile, and able to handle the tests of time and one that cannot. I think the chance of the engineers missing something that could lead to impotence for the new species after 5-6 generations is just far too possible. With those kinds of errors as a possibility, there is no point to making an attempt beyond gathering data.

 

As far as "the post above mine" went. It's ridiculous to assume that enhanced humans would kill us, enslave us, or be that hostile. If you're trying to use Neanderthals as an example then a flaw is already present. As it is unknown what exactly caused the Neanderthals disappearance. There is only speculation. Interbreeding, conflict due to competition, and/or a lack of ability to adapt to the environmental changes that took place over that time. Depending on which you go with it, it makes a very very big difference.

The other problem is that we are not a technologically deficient species. Nor are we unable to communicate with each other.

It's not like the enhanced humans would simply be thrown out in to the wild to see what happens. Their education would be handled by humans. Taking care of them would be handled by humans. Their experiences and influences would for the most part be, with humans. And people aren't simply their genetic predispositions, for the most part, they are their experiences, influences, the decisions they make and the conclusions they come to. Those things alone make the Neanderthal comparison obsolete. I think it's unreasonable to assume that Human's are still the exact same as they were tens of thousands of years ago.

[Song]

I think it's unreasonable to assume that Human's are still the exact same as they were tens of thousands of years ago.

 

In my opinion we are. I think we are still the same people described in

the bible, still the same as the old romans and undoubtly still the same

as the Nazis.

All these 'civilization' saw themself superior towards foreigners,

barabarian, infidels or whatever they called 'all the ones different

from themself'.

That is more or less what I meant, not disabled people in particular.

And what happened to these 'civilizations'?

They destroyed everything around them, pillaged, raped and murdered

their way through history until they destroyed themself just to make

place for the next one...

 

Well and today we are still driven by hatred, greed and such likes.

Yes, there is charity and love in the world, but only local, on a bigger,

global scale these words have no meaning other then propaganda.

 

And if we now raise and educate enhanced humans with the same

traits, habits and mindset we did for so long for ourself, they will think

just like us and as much as I would like to contradict myself on this

point, thinking like us is not good.

 

 

The one intelligent social species on the planet theory.

 

Yeah, sounds reasonable.

Though I think it isn't completly impossible for several intelligent social

species to coexist on the same planet and that the word intelligent is

mostly misunderstood.

We just have to rid ourself of negative traits like arrogance, hatred, greed

and so many others...

On the other hand, it would take several generations to change our traits

and habits, which kinda makes it impossible again because it is highly unlikly

that such a 'masterplan' could work over a long period of time.

[Alyxx Thorne]

I just don't see human cloning as necessary for warfare. You can easily just brainwash your people into going to war anyway with propaganda. Hitler did it. And just thinking about how expensive it would be to fund the experiments behind it would indicate it would probably be way too expensive as well.

[nomogoodnames]

A project like this would be more effective as a small squad project, not a full blown army. Creating 5 or 6 super clones with dense skin, higher intellect, stronger bones and muscle mass could help in covert military ops.

[WonSul]

I think it's unreasonable to assume that Human's are still the exact same as they were tens of thousands of years ago.

 

In my opinion we are. I think we are still the same people described in

the bible, still the same as the old romans and undoubtly still the same

as the Nazis.

 

I think any similarities to those examples in today's world is more the exception to the rule than the general status.

[Alyxx Thorne]

A project like this would be more effective as a small squad project, not a full blown army. Creating 5 or 6 super clones with dense skin, higher intellect, stronger bones and muscle mass could help in covert military ops.

I agree with that, but then you've got the ethics involved.

[RueThePirate]

Hm. It'd certainly be interesting to create an army of perfectly good soldiers, but then some dictator would certainly clone himself for backups in case he were to die. It's really a double-edged sword. You can look at it from that angle, and an emotional one: The clone of the other person would, most likely, be shitting his pants over being a clone of someone else and just not his/her own person. That is, of course, assuming that the clone would not retain any memories from said person.