How to save the forums?

[Im_CIA]

The title, basically. 

 

Aside from a few new video posts that crop up, the forum devolved into a handful of acerbic nerds, like myself,  communicating with each other through inside jokes and nonsense stoner babble. We've reached that Realms of the Haunting spiritworld decorum and I admit that I'm partially to blame.

Personally I prefer any online discussion to be be as chaotic and open-ended as possible, but if this is driving new blood away, then I can tone it down a bit and try and act like a normal person. I would also encourage the other regulars (you know who you are) to do the same. Otherwise, it might just be that is format of internet discussion is dying out because of aggregates like Discord, which I think is a real shame. 
 

I can't really think of other ways to revive this community apart from maybe announcing and holding a few gaming sessions and archiving(hiding) stale threads.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Im_Unemployed (see edit history)

[grayling]

On 10/15/2021 at 8:25 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

Otherwise, it might just be that is format of internet discussion is dying out because of aggregates like Discord, which I think is a real shame. 

it's probably this and not anything forum regulars here do, although i don't think this forum would be really lively even if discord wasn't around. i would never expect this place to become as populated as an active SPUF forum for example, but i bet a lot of people who might post here see the "official" accursed farms discord server on the AF subreddit and situate themselves there instead

[Im_CIA]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:46 AM, grayling said:

although i don't think this forum would be really lively even if discord wasn't around. i would never expect this place to become as populated as an active SPUF forum

You may be right, but I've lurked on here in the early 2010s and it used to be lot more lively. Most of the old guard is gone now except for a few mainstays.

 

Sometimes an overzealous political grifter trickles in and lightens up the place for a bit and I half wish that they would show up more. The passionate types are a lot of fun to engage with, but someone always calls the mods whenever the fun reaches its zenith and cramps everyone's mojo. 

 

Maybe we can rebrand as a crazy  hobo encampment that provides Soapbox as a Service. Take the discourse I mentioned here and in the OP and just blow it up. Anything but a slow and boring death. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Im_Unemployed (see edit history)

[Generic-User]

I think it's a combination of factors. The Discord thing I definitely think is one. Certain types of communities seem to be more inclined to shift to that as opposed to others, and this one comes across as the type that may be more likely to shift in that direction. As far as general activity, I've always been too much of a background lurker to be able to comment as to whether it's gotten more dead or not, but it sort of "feels" like its died down lately to me.

 

I think the video pace may also be a contributing factor. Each release is potential for new blood, but with how infrequent things may come out, that works against things in that manner (though the pace comment isn't a complaint; I'm definitely a proponent of "when it's done"). Maybe if in a perfect world the popular AF series like Freeman's Mind and CP were being banged out on the reg, that would increase chances of catching new people with each release, but again, forums seems to be very slowly becoming a more "antiquated" format for communities like these, and aren't as attractive to some people.

 

I imagine the forums here probably wouldn't go away (I was part of one that eventually shut down since there was like 5 active people left), but lack of activity definitely sucks for any forum. Barring new visitors, really the only thing that ever keeps stuff like this going is the frequent participation of the mainstays, though that eventually just turns the place into a giant inside joke that can tend to alienate new people.

 

Who knows. I think the best solution is going to be taking the enlightenment van out to town and bringing some fresh acolytes back to the barn.

On 10/16/2021 at 12:36 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

Maybe we can rebrand as a crazy  hobo encampment

 

Say no more, already sold.

[Im_CIA]

On 10/16/2021 at 2:23 AM, Generic-User said:

 

Say no more, already sold.

It's a shame that most browsers have autoplay off by default  Otherwise we could play the sounds of shuffling footsteps and then pop up a gif of a bum going "nyaaahhh"! 

[Generic-User]

On 10/16/2021 at 5:54 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

It's a shame that most browsers have autoplay off by default  Otherwise we could play the sounds of shuffling footsteps and then pop up a gif of a bum going "nyaaahhh"! 

 

"People would crap their PANTS, man."

[Deep Dive Devin]

Ultimately this is a forum for the work of one person, and I don't think it would see the kind of traffic more involved forums do even if Ross uploaded every single day. Dedicated forums only really manage to stay alive if there's a lot of stuff to talk about. The only regularly-active forums I post on are Sonic and Dragon Ball related, because those are both decades-old series full of obscure material and strange discoveries to be found related to their core subject material. Just last year we found a new prototype of Sonic 1. That's over thirty years old, and it had a ton of crap to explore that was totally different from the game everyone knows now. I've been tracking the creation of some incredibly in-depth Dragon Ball fan edits that remove sometimes literal days worth of filler from a given series. By contrast, the nature of this content is just that it's smaller.

 

You'd have a better chance migrating most of the forum userbase to the subreddit, since that's more active. But then, you'd probably have to change the rules a little bit, since contrary to your opinion I think the mods are too lenient with the kind of political reactionaries I've seen, and I feel like opening a forum to see people arguing in vain with qultists threatening to commit terrorist attacks is more likely to drive most people away from the board rather than toward it, and I'm not sure the kind of person who is drawn to that is one I want to hang around with.

 

But then, I also don't think the forum really needs to be "saved"? There's nothing at-large that really threatens the board itself, and inactivity isn't a problem in and of itself. Donations make Ross money, so higher traffic could be a potential factor, but it seems to me like he gets most of that from the videos since, y'know, that's the subject matter of the forum. It doesn't seem like maintaining the website itself is a huge issue, so I don't know what the actual issue is that there's not a lot of discussion on it.

 

You'd have a better argument if Ross were in the kind of trouble that he needs to make an impression with his branding, which would make sense. We have the game dungeon and Freeman's Mind, but there's also a lot of projects in limbo and a lot of small experiments that make it hard to define a core identity for Accursed Farms. The only problem with this interpretation is I don't think Ross is all that worried about it? Like, sure, I doubt he wants to be confusing or anything, but it's always seemed like his biggest struggle as a creator is with getting things out quickly and consistently, not whether they fit a youtuber mold. So I guess I just made up a scenario where I proved myself wrong, just to validate a question nobody else but me was asking.

[Mira]

I agree; as long as the cost of maintaining the forum doesn't become too much of a financial strain, I don't think the current level of activity really poses that much of a problem in and of itself. Of all the forums I've been a part of in my days, I think the only one to survive the rise of Discord without a significant drop in activity is Progarchives, which is populated mostly by 50+ year olds. The consensus among people I talk to about this does seem to be that forums are antiquated and too inconvenient compared to instant messaging in its current form, which I don't personally agree with at all. I think both have their uses, and I'm definitely happy to have a place here to regurgitate my thoughts in a more premeditated manner and a more long-lasting form.

[Im_CIA]

On 10/17/2021 at 4:25 AM, Shaddy said:

You'd have a better chance migrating most of the forum userbase to the subreddit, since that's more active. But then, you'd probably have to change the rules a little bit, since contrary to your opinion I think the mods are too lenient with the kind of political reactionaries I've seen.

 

Anything but Pleb-It. It works for the videochat questions, but the second you start adding points to posts it's all over for creativity. Psychologically you start hedging your comments based by internet currency instead of what you actually want to say.
 

On 10/17/2021 at 4:25 AM, Shaddy said:

I feel like opening a forum to see people arguing in vain with qultists threatening to commit terrorist attacks is more likely to drive most people away from the board rather than toward it, and I'm not sure the kind of person who is drawn to that is one I want to hang around with.

Well those who want to jump in the fray, of course.


And don't be negative. Maybe they'll come join to support you.

[Im_CIA]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:13 AM, Mira said:

I agree; as long as the cost of maintaining the forum doesn't become too much of a financial strain, I don't think the current level of activity really poses that much of a problem in and of itself. Of all the forums I've been a part of in my days, I think the only one to survive the rise of Discord without a significant drop in activity is Progarchives, which is populated mostly by 50+ year olds. The consensus among people I talk to about this does seem to be that forums are antiquated and too inconvenient compared to instant messaging in its current form, which I don't personally agree with at all. I think both have their uses, and I'm definitely happy to have a place here to regurgitate my thoughts in a more premeditated manner and a more long-lasting form.

If it wasn't for the donations I get the feeling that might be getting axed at some point. Good thing Ross is very old-school so I don't believe we are facing an existential threat. It's just a matter of transforming this from Do Lung Bridge to somewhere between regular Hill Valley and alternative 1985 Hill Valley.

[Deep Dive Devin]

On 10/17/2021 at 8:52 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

Anything but Pleb-It. It works for the videochat questions, but the second you start adding points to posts it's all over for creativity. Psychologically you start hedging your comments based by internet currency instead of what you actually want to say.

Not really my point. I'm no shill for reddit, it's just got more activity. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the priority is here. If it's good discussion, then we've got some issues. If it's an active userbase, then leveraging part of that discussion might be worth it.

 

On 10/17/2021 at 8:52 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

Well those who want to jump in the fray, of course.

And don't be negative. Maybe they'll come join to support you.

I didn't even really mean me, per say. I kinda gave up on treating any back-and-forth like that as a real debate. I meant more along the lines of kraken and mira, posting good-faith rebuttals only to be completely ignored. It's not that they need more help from the userbase, I just think that there can be an actual baseline to what's not acceptable discourse outside of what is generally pretty lax legislation on hate speech. Like, capitalism is shitty, but I'm not trying to ban everyone who isn't an anarchist or a socialist (technically speaking, I am neither myself).

 

But imagine someone shows up ranting about how (((they))) are secretly controlling the world, and with a little prodding, it turns out that this whole time, (((they))) meant jews! Gasp! We are all completely blown away by this stunning revelation. Wow. Jews. Really? Like an antisemite would say? Huh.

 

Like, it goes pretty much the same way every time, so what's the middleman of prodding them even for? I guess it could be sarcastic, but it doesn't take much to clarify that if you get in hot water.

[Im_CIA]

On 10/17/2021 at 8:27 PM, Shaddy said:

Not really my point. I'm no shill for reddit, it's just got more activity. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the priority is here. If it's good discussion, then we've got some issues. If it's an active userbase, then leveraging part of that discussion might be worth it.

 

I didn't even really mean me, per say. I kinda gave up on treating any back-and-forth like that as a real debate. I meant more along the lines of kraken and mira, posting good-faith rebuttals only to be completely ignored. It's not that they need more help from the userbase, I just think that there can be an actual baseline to what's not acceptable discourse outside of what is generally pretty lax legislation on hate speech. Like, capitalism is shitty, but I'm not trying to ban everyone who isn't an anarchist or a socialist (technically speaking, I am neither myself).

 

But imagine someone shows up ranting about how (((they))) are secretly controlling the world, and with a little prodding, it turns out that this whole time, (((they))) meant jews! Gasp! We are all completely blown away by this stunning revelation. Wow. Jews. Really? Like an antisemite would say? Huh.

 

Like, it goes pretty much the same way every time, so what's the middleman of prodding them even for? I guess it could be sarcastic, but it doesn't take much to clarify that if you get in hot water.

Well just ask them who "they" is referring to. Generic speech is not hate speech. Start banning dog whistles and people will just make new ones

[Deep Dive Devin]

Words don't have any inherent meanings, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to define hateful language at all.

[Im_CIA]

On 10/20/2021 at 6:28 PM, Shaddy said:

Words don't have any inherent meanings, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to define hateful language at all.

That's not what I'm saying. Using generic language like "they" or "them" is not hate speech until it's openly defined as such in that context. By itself it shouldn't be grounds for a ban. 

[kerdios]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:21 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

That's not what I'm saying. Using generic language like "they" or "them" is not hate speech until it's openly defined as such in that context. By itself it shouldn't be grounds for a ban. 

yes, but this

defines it

[Im_CIA]

On 10/22/2021 at 12:28 PM, kerdios said:

yes, but this

defines it

So you think he blackmailed Ross into playing that Sonic game?

[Deep Dive Devin]

On 10/22/2021 at 1:21 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

That's not what I'm saying. Using generic language like "they" or "them" is not hate speech until it's openly defined as such in that context. By itself it shouldn't be grounds for a ban. 

Well I'm not advocating for that. It was one example of a use of language that someone would have to be willfully ignorant to not know the meaning of. I'm not calling for anyone who writes ((Vriska)) to be branded a neo-nazi. I just mean when it's so patently obvious, I think that "attack the argument not the person" is a policy that inherently platforms shitty people.

On 10/22/2021 at 9:28 AM, kerdios said:

yes, but this

defines it

That's actually pretty funny, it does look silly for me to invoke that specific dog whistle with that in my sig, but I do also think having increasing number of parentheses before and after the regular three that antisemites use is one way to circumvent looking like them.

 

It's actually from a farcical reddit post where I attempt a rambling overly-verbose analysis of that Sonic fanfiction and speculate wildly about "Peter Chimera" only for Tom to completely dunk on me because it was him the whole time.

 

Anyway, yes, I do have Ross locked up in my basement. Sometimes I sing to him.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

On 10/22/2021 at 8:02 PM, Shaddy said:

Well I'm not advocating for that. It was one example of a use of language that someone would have to be willfully ignorant to not know the meaning of. I'm not calling for anyone who writes ((Vriska)) to be branded a neo-nazi. I just mean when it's so patently obvious, I think that "attack the argument not the person" is a policy that inherently platforms shitty people.

 

They all got b& though. I don't think smiting "attack the argument.." and adding discretionary or whimsical rules will keep them away, it's just the nature of the content here attracts a whole slew of characters.  

[TB]

Forums are a fantastic way to archive information. Conversations that are long dead can be read anytime. I'm not a huge fan of instant chat communities myself, for a number of reasons I won't get into. The forums are a small community and that's okay. Big communities have problems we don't (and server maintenance costs that we don't). This small community takes a several member task force and a decent chunk of change to run as it is. We're not actively trying to keep the community small, but it has its perks.

On 10/16/2021 at 2:23 AM, Generic-User said:

Who knows. I think the best solution is going to be taking the enlightenment van out to town and bringing some fresh acolytes back to the barn.

We don't talk about the enlightenment van.

[Generic-User]

On 11/19/2021 at 11:09 AM, The Britain said:

We don't talk about the enlightenment van.

 

Spreading the word is part of my plan to keep people off the scent of the true enlightenment van, which is the one that has the pizza shop sign on the roof of it delivering hot fresh enlightenment to hungry believers doorsteps. It must continue its holy mission at any cost. The monoliths are just a giant distraction from the one true faith.