I need to talk about Valve/Steam.

[Hunchback4P]

Hello folks, new member here (joined last night). 

By the time of this post, I have reached 250 games on my library...I've spent 10 years of my life in the platform buying games supporting creators and sharing alot of gaming expiriences with other people, I think if it wasn't for Valve it would've be more limited or worse access to the games I enjoy(ed) and probably half of them wouldn't even exist or simply be unknown/unreachable to me.

With that in mind, it got me thinking: What the hell will happen if this store shuts down someday or gets sold out or worse, just decide to take some or all of my games from my library for some reason? What if I'm really supporting the wrong people from the start (Valve)?

I even decided to ask their support on what measures they have for my concerns and...well...I guess some of you guys already know how well that went (attached image below).

Side Note: My english is not really good, so bear with me if I made that question too poorly for them to give me a real awnser...

I know some of these questions are done to death but I feel I never gave enough thought on the matter...and given past events and some discussions I had here and there I can't help but to bring this topic again and hope to get a better perspective, both from costumers and indie developers alike (if there is any in these Forums) on the realities of having to deal with Steam/Valve and what can that be said to the future of PC gaming? I'm trying to do some research, but without any good directions aside from finding Ross videos and these forums (Jim Sterling too maybe?)  I don't know any other sourcers I could follow in a pratical matter I guess, at least not when it comes to Valve/Steam specificly.

I hope the post is clear enough to start a good discussion, feel free to post text walls I got alot of time for that (given current circunstances). In case people may want more info on my experiences with the industry, here is a small list just in case:

- I've been using GoG and Microsoft Store XGP. GoG mostly for old games but i've been slowly starting to purchase newer games there as well (Outward, Surviving Mars i.e) but combined they are still like 0.1% of my digital collection.

- I'm more or less aware of the issues regarding shovelware and asset flips that came from Steam Greenlight and Steam Direct, but I'd still appriciate thoughts on the matter regardless. 
 

- I don't understand DRM as much as I should, to my understanding, it's a ''moderate'' way to prevent piracy but it also validates the very concerns I have right now and I believe to this community as well, Ross video makes excelent points but still, your opinions are still welcomed. 

-I still hold the stance that, dispite it's issues, steam is/was a good platform at the time I started broading my gaming experience (back then I would go the traditional route of buying physical copies which, in my experience, was very limited as a PC player and my country (Brazil) is known for outlandish prices for both hardware and console game prices (99 bucks vs 200 back in early 20's, not anymore because economy) but as mentioned earlier I feel I may be losing perception of the true realities of the platform now. 

TL;DR - Spent too much in a store for too long and I think I need a reality check, please send help. 

[Eshanas]

I asked this years ago elsewhere, and found a answer somewhere.

 

APPARENTLY, BACK THEN, Gabe said that in that event steam would release the...dlls? appls? Something-ls, offline play lite basically. I think it also means you HAVE to have the games downloaded - purchased but not downloaded would be a no go or a rush-grab to DL everything....

 

There are many concerns however - whether they WOULD do this, because that was YEARS ago, before GaAS and all that, and what will DRM do to your games, the like. Just because it might be both easy to do and the 'right' thing to do does not mean that Steam, the Publishers, or both WILL do it. Gotta get used to being forked over, cha know?

 

That reply from support doesn't raise any hope. It's too haughty. Too much hubris. Especially since Steam is asked this question every odd week, they should have a cookie-cutter response from years ago.

 

And it's going to happen, eventually. Steam won't last forever. Nothing won't. Best thing we can hope for is that it lasts longer than we do, and if it doesn't, that somehow, they do the right thing. Because honestly the industry seems to be gearing up to never do the right thing ever again. Hell a recent article says they might have to be sued into actually doing anything.

 

It's part of the reason I went over to GoG and try to buy games there first than on Steam. No, really. I like just having the .exe file stored somewhere. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Eshanas (see edit history)

[Prinny]

Some games can be played without client (you just go into steamapps directory and run them from there) and it should be possible to use fake client as well, so backing up your Steam games is very possible.

https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

 

edit: Interesting – looking at this list I found out that Dust: An Elysian Tail can be played DRM-free on Linux, but not on Windows.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Prinny (see edit history)

[potty_admiral_bop]

Valve is the most anti-consumer gaming company, not EA.

Fuck fat greedy asshole.

[BTGBullseye]

On 5/14/2021 at 3:33 AM, potty_admiral_bop said:

Valve is the most anti-consumer gaming company, not EA.

Mind providing some reasoning for that, especially since that is objectively false?

[potty_admiral_bop]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:36 PM, BTGBullseye said:

Mind providing some reasoning for that, especially since that is objectively false?

This guy said the majority of the issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edIFFm12AOQ  didn't address some problems like steam but overall it's a ok video.

Also objectively by you or what? Objectively this company is one of the most anti-consumer gaming company.

[potty_admiral_bop]

That guy forgot to mention that fat fucker was sued and fought in court for NOT to have refund on steam games. Objectively consumer friendly, right? Also, steam was the last digital game rent store that implemented game refunds, despite being the first digital rent store of all of them. Oh yeah, I am wrong about anti consumer. Objectively false!

Also, steam doesn't allow to use mods from workshop outside of steam. Very consumer friendly.

Also, for you my retarded friendo - drm is anti-consumer technology.  So suck ass, you, son of shit, ass.

And one more moment I remembered about steam "refunds", because steam refunds aren't normals refunds. Because all the money goes to steam wallet, not your wallet. Consumer friendly stuff here.

Now fuck off steam boy. Go suck off bagen ass,  bigot.

[kerdios]

On 5/19/2020 at 8:28 PM, Hunchback4P said:

TL;DR - Spent too much in a store for too long and I think I need a reality check, please send help. 

https://aa.org/pages/en_US/find-local-aa

https://aa.org/pages/en_US/find-aa-resources/world/1

Spoiler

P.S. I am making a stupid joke, please don't get offended

 

[Im_CIA]

6 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

 

Also, for you my retarded friendo - drm is anti-consumer technology.  So suck ass, you, son of shit, ass.

And one more moment I remembered about steam "refunds", because steam refunds aren't normals refunds. Because all the money goes to steam wallet, not your wallet. Consumer friendly stuff here.

Now fuck off steam boy. Go suck off bagen ass,  bigot.

Beautiful prose, a true man of letters.

[BTGBullseye]

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

That guy forgot to mention that fat fucker was sued and fought in court for NOT to have refund on steam games.

EA has multiple times as well. Several more than Steam has, and several years prior to when Steam even existed for the first ones.

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

Also, steam was the last digital game rent store that implemented game refunds, despite being the first digital rent store of all of them.

That's because it isn't "rent". It's a perpetual licence, meaning the moment you download it, it's the same as from any other digital store or disc. Rent requires you to pay on a regular basis for the permission to use the item, which is not the primary business model of Steam. (even if they do allow subscription games to be sold on the platform) The only difference is if you count Steam's DRM system as something that EA doesn't have a similar product for. (which they definitely do)

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

Also, steam doesn't allow to use mods from workshop outside of steam.

Untrue, you merely require Steam to download them. (and since that's free with no personally identifiable information required, not an issue)

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

drm is anti-consumer technology.

And Steam does not require it to be included in the games that are on their platform. They provide a minimally invasive DRM system if the game makers want to use it, and that has actually significantly helped the situation, rather than harm it. (especially since Steam has outright stated in legal contracts that they will issue patches to remove that DRM if the store were to ever shut down, something not possible with other DRMs)

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

And one more moment I remembered about steam "refunds", because steam refunds aren't normals refunds. Because all the money goes to steam wallet, not your wallet.

Just like with physical store refunds, you get store credit unless it's very special circumstances. Try returning an open game to Walmart and demanding cash sometime. At least with Steam you don't have to drive to the store to return it.

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

Also, for you my retarded friendo

 

20 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

Now fuck off steam boy. Go suck off bagen ass,  bigot.

Clear violations of the forum's code of conduct.

[kerdios]

3 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

Clear violations of the forum's code of conduct.

yup, shall we tag a mod? or is a verbal warning enough?

[potty_admiral_bop]

Quote

EA has multiple times as well. Several more than Steam has, and several years prior to when Steam even existed for the first ones.

Do other bad companies as EA make Valve a good company?

Quote

That's because it isn't "rent". It's a perpetual licence, meaning the moment you download it, it's the same as from any other digital store or disc.

I like how steamboys didn't read the license agreement and talk about it like they read it. Check reddit for detailed explanation (I've lost the link). Steam is a digital rent store.

Quote

Untrue, you merely require Steam to download them

How is it untrue, fag? I can't download mods without using steam. OR I have to use some 3rd party bullcrap to load outdated verions of mods.

Quote

And Steam does not require it to be included in the games that are on their platform. They provide a minimally invasive DRM system if the game makers want to use it, and that has actually significantly helped the situation, rather than harm it. (especially since Steam has outright stated in legal contracts that they will issue patches to remove that DRM if the store were to ever shut down, something not possible with other DRMs

1. Shit is shill shit no matter how much sugar you put on top of it;

2. A lot of games require steam to play, I don't know how much thou since I don't use steam or have statistics.

Quote

Just like with physical store refunds, you get store credit unless it's very special circumstances. Try returning an open game to Walmart and demanding cash sometime

1. I don't know in what kind of shithole you live. But when I refund products I get my money back. Not some store coupons.

2. Do you call it pro consumer behaviour? Funny. Ahh... Steamslaves, they'll like when fat asswipe piss them in the face and ask for more. Retards.

Quote

Clear violations of the forum's code of conduct.

You lost your argument and went complaining to a moderator, what a f***ing MAGGOT!

[Im_CIA]

1 hour ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

Do other bad companies as EA make Valve a good company?

I like how steamboys didn't read the license agreement and talk about it like they read it. Check reddit for detailed explanation (I've lost the link). Steam is a digital rent store.

How is it untrue, fag? I can't download mods without using steam. OR I have to use some 3rd party bullcrap to load outdated verions of mods.1. Shit is shill shit no matter how much sugar you put on top .

2. Do you call it pro consumer behaviour? Funny. Ahh... Steamslaves, they'll like when fat asswipe piss them in the face and ask for more. Retards.

You lost your argument and went complaining to a moderator, what a f***ing MAGGOT!

It's impossible to lose against someone who says "son of shit".

 

I happen to like Steam myself, and I never had to refund a game in my entire life. Why? Because I'm smart enough to research something before I buy it.

[BTGBullseye]

14 hours ago, kerdios said:

yup, shall we tag a mod? or is a verbal warning enough?

Seems the former is probably needed.

[TB]

11 hours ago, potty_admiral_bop said:

Do other bad companies as EA make Valve a good company?

I like how steamboys didn't read the license agreement and talk about it like they read it. Check reddit for detailed explanation (I've lost the link). Steam is a digital rent store.

How is it untrue, fag? I can't download mods without using steam. OR I have to use some 3rd party bullcrap to load outdated verions of mods.

1. Shit is shill shit no matter how much sugar you put on top of it;

2. A lot of games require steam to play, I don't know how much thou since I don't use steam or have statistics.

1. I don't know in what kind of shithole you live. But when I refund products I get my money back. Not some store coupons.

2. Do you call it pro consumer behaviour? Funny. Ahh... Steamslaves, they'll like when fat asswipe piss them in the face and ask for more. Retards.

You lost your argument and went complaining to a moderator, what a f***ing MAGGOT!

Last warning, say what you want, keep it civil. Your post will now be moderator approved until the 7th.