Atheism: Philosophically Redundant?

[Koockaburra101]

Did you even read my reply? I'm saying it's not a valid way of thinking about the issue since it assumes there are only two possible outcomes when in reality no matter what religion you are you have pretty much the same chance of getting screwed over by the afterlife as an atheist does. I also said that if I were religious I wouldn't use that argument since that would mean that my god is either incredibly cynical or horribly stupid.

[ProHypster]

I also said that if I were religious I wouldn't use that argument since that would mean that my god is either incredibly cynical or horribly stupid.

 

Sorry don't take this for a defence of Bt but did you just try to judge God's actions with human logic???????

[BTGBullseye]

I'm saying it's not a valid way of thinking about the issue since it assumes there are only two possible outcomes when in reality no matter what religion you are you have pretty much the same chance of getting screwed over by the afterlife as an atheist does.

Ok, you are showing how illogical you are by saying that there is a 100% chance of getting screwed over in the "afterlife", regardless of any belief system.

 

I also said that if I were religious I wouldn't use that argument since that would mean that my god is either incredibly cynical or horribly stupid.

Why would it mean that? Your logic is pretty obviously flawed there.

[danielsangeo]

Pascal's Wager is a logical fallacy, an extension of the false dichotomy. It assumes only two options: God exists and belief will get you into heaven and lack of belief will not....or God doesn't exist and belief doesn't really hurt anything.

 

I assert that these aren't the only two options, which is why the wager is flawed and cannot be used as an argument. Let me put this option (which is one among many) out there:

 

The real deity doesn't desire belief and believing in a deity is what causes suffering and lack of belief takes you to paradise.

 

Or, another option: You're believing in the wrong deity and the correct deity, one no one has ever heard of, is upset at your belief in a false god and you'll burn more than if you hadn't believed at all.

[Koockaburra101]

I'm not saying the chance is 100% I'm saying that Pascal was wrong in presenting it as a 50/50 chance. After all if you are a Christian and I am an atheist and it turns out the Muslims are right we'll both be less than fortunate after we die. And when we account for the many gods that have been thought up by humans over the years and the practically infinite amounts of gods we haven't even thought of the difference between our chances are negligible at best.

 

I'm not sure about you but if I now converted to Christianity just to avoid the possibility of hell (which as I said wouldn't really help me that much but whatever), do you think I would deserve heaven when I die? Pascal's wager depends on this god being willing to let me in anyway even if I only professed to believe out of fear. I'm of the opinion that such a god would be a very unpleasant character so it surprises me when religious people use Pascal's wager as an argument, because it suggests that the god they believe in only cares for what you claim to believe and not at all for what your reasons for that belief is, which after all he has access too since he's omnipotent according to most people who I've seen present that argument.

[ProHypster]

Pascal's Wager is a logical fallacy, an extension of the false dichotomy. It assumes only two options: God exists and belief will get you into heaven and lack of belief will not....or God doesn't exist and belief doesn't really hurt anything.

 

I assert that these aren't the only two options, which is why the wager is flawed and cannot be used as an argument. Let me put this option (which is one among many) out there:

 

The real deity doesn't desire belief and believing in a deity is what causes suffering and lack of belief takes you to paradise.

 

Or, another option: You're believing in the wrong deity and the correct deity, one no one has ever heard of, is upset at your belief in a false god and you'll burn more than if you hadn't believed at all.

Another rep goes to you.

 

By the way Bt, you do know that God (by the bible) won't put people in hell if they didn't know the truth, only if they do know it but try to avoid it.

[Doom Shepherd]

By the way Bt, you do know that God (by the bible) won't put people in hell if they didn't know the truth, only if they do know it but try to avoid it.

 

Which means that everybody who preaches the "truth" puts people in danger of Hell who were not in danger before they heard.

 

Ergo, people who talk about God and Jesus are bad people for putting other innocent people in danger of Hell. If you want to save your child, NEVER tell them about God or Jesus.

 

Apparently, the best way to get into heaven is to treat it like Fight Club.

[ProHypster]

By the way Bt, you do know that God (by the bible) won't put people in hell if they didn't know the truth, only if they do know it but try to avoid it.

 

Which means that everybody who preaches the "truth" puts people in danger of Hell who were not in danger before they heard.

 

Ergo, people who talk about God and Jesus are bad people for putting other innocent people in danger of Hell. If you want to save your child, NEVER tell them about God or Jesus.

 

Apparently, the best way to get into heaven is to treat it like Fight Club.

 

Man you have been a jerk to everyone here and especially me since the first post I saw from you.

 

I looked at the map of USA and found Pennsylvania isn't close to Texas at all, that dissapointed my theory...

(That's a joke)

All I have to say is, if it sounds so easy to do, why don't you try it on your children.

[Doom Shepherd]

Man you have been a jerk to everyone here and especially me since the first post I saw from you.

 

Is there anything I said that does NOT logically follow from what YOU said?

 

That's an OLD joke, by the way. I heard it from Pulitzer Prize winner Annie Dillard.

 

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

 

I looked at the map of USA and found Pennsylvania isn't close to Texas at all, that dissapointed my theory...

(That's a joke)

 

Depends. This is apparently how British schoolkids see America:

http://www.omgfunnypictures.com/the-u-s-of-new-calitexas-217500.html

 

All I have to say is, if it sounds so easy to do, why don't you try it on your children.

Are you kidding? I'm 39, and wayyyyy too immature to ever have kids. I still collect action rfigures and comic books.

 

I do have a 4-year-old nephew I'm grooming as an apprentice, though. He'll be just as smart and evil, but more ambitious. In 30 years, he'll be running this planet.

[BTGBullseye]

After all if you are a Christian and I am an atheist and it turns out the Muslims are right we'll both be less than fortunate after we die.

Actually the Muslim God is the same as the Jew and Christian God. There was even an unnamed God back in the Roman Empire days that was that God as well.

[ProHypster]

Man you have been a jerk to everyone here and especially me since the first post I saw from you.

 

Is there anything I said that does NOT logically follow from what YOU said?

 

That's an OLD joke, by the way. I heard it from Pulitzer Prize winner Annie Dillard.

 

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

 

I looked at the map of USA and found Pennsylvania isn't close to Texas at all, that dissapointed my theory...

(That's a joke)

 

Depends. This is apparently how British schoolkids see America:

http://www.omgfunnypictures.com/the-u-s-of-new-calitexas-217500.html

 

All I have to say is, if it sounds so easy to do, why don't you try it on your children.

Are you kidding? I'm 39, and wayyyyy too immature to ever have kids. I still collect action rfigures and comic books.

 

I do have a 4-year-old nephew I'm grooming as an apprentice, though. He'll be just as smart and evil, but more ambitious. In 30 years, he'll be running this planet.

 

That's not the jerk part, the jerk part that time was the inapropriate placing of " "

 

Can I ask you something? Do you like your job, DoomShepherd?

[The Hamburglar]

By the way Bt, you do know that God (by the bible) won't put people in hell if they didn't know the truth, only if they do know it but try to avoid it.

 

Which means that everybody who preaches the "truth" puts people in danger of Hell who were not in danger before they heard.

 

Ergo, people who talk about God and Jesus are bad people for putting other innocent people in danger of Hell. If you want to save your child, NEVER tell them about God or Jesus.

 

Apparently, the best way to get into heaven is to treat it like Fight Club.

 

Man you have been a jerk to everyone here and especially me since the first post I saw from you.

He isn't being a jerk, that's actually one of the smartest things I've read all day.

 

Doom Shepard, shake my hand through my monitor.

[ProHypster]

He isn't being a jerk, that's actually one of the smartest things I've read all day.

[The Hamburglar]

He isn't being a jerk, that's actually one of the smartest things I've read all day.

Thank you for putting emphasis on it!

[ProHypster]

He isn't being a jerk, that's actually one of the smartest things I've read all day.

Thank you for putting emphasis on it!

 

*Being a jerk*

Edited May 5, 2011 by Guest (see edit history)

[The Hamburglar]

 

You're welcome. Anything more I would've written and I would probably be banned from the forums....

Well, it just so happens I have an opinion! And my opinion is that I liked Doom Shepard's post. Calling it smart may have been over selling it but I still liked it.

[ProHypster]

Hmm... I apologize, I may have gone too far with that second post.

 

It's not up to me to judge.

[The Hamburglar]

Hmm... I apologize, I may have gone too far with that second post.

 

It's not up to me to judge.

Oh no, it's okay. I have my moments too, we're all just human after all.

 

But basically, I base most of my beliefs around science and my own questions.

 

If God didn't want us to commit adultery, why would he give us the tools and knowledge necessary to do so?

[ProHypster]

Hamburglar, those types of question take 10 years of reading and analyzing the bible, some years of scientific/mathematical and logical development of the brain through training and lots of personal experience.

 

I think you are not going to get them just with information from other peeps Just saying.

 

Before humans can understand the world, they first need to understand themselves; the only way to accomplish that is with rational thought

 

- Socrates

[The Hamburglar]

The Bible is no doubt very jarring literature, very controversial. I am all for peace and love, like that presented in the Bible, but certain sections (Timothy 2:11 and 2:12) make me raise an eyebrow a bit.

 

EDIT: also, great Socrates quote.