Kerbal Space Program...2!

[Eshanas]

Apparently, a sequel's coming out. Prettier and beefier. Base building has become more formalized? New types of drives. I'm hoping for space-based infrastructure and building. RSS and other mod teams might migrate over and deal with my other wishes.

 

 

Thoughts?
 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Eshanas (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

If they improve the flight controls, then I'll consider it...

[rairii]

22 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

If they improve the flight controls, then I'll consider it...

There's... nothing wrong with the flight controls though...

It's very simple and basic, w and s for pitch, a and d for yaw, q and e for roll. It really doesn't get simpler than that. The only reason why flight controls would ever be bad is if you were specifically not designing your ship with flight control in mind (i.e. without reaction wheels, thrust vectoring, RCS, and aerodynamic surfaces.)

Edited August 23, 2019 by Annie (see edit history)

[rairii]

All of that being said, I'm very excited for it! The features apparently include proper interstellar travel and interplanetary bases which I've been long waiting for and am super excited to play around with.

[BTGBullseye]

48 minutes ago, Annie said:

There's... nothing wrong with the flight controls though...

It's very simple and basic, w and s for pitch, a and d for yaw, q and e for roll. It really doesn't get simpler than that. The only reason why flight controls would ever be bad is if you were specifically not designing your ship with flight control in mind (i.e. without reaction wheels, thrust vectoring, RCS, and aerodynamic surfaces.)

 

Interesting you should mention that, because none of those controls work like that for me for some reason, and this is on 4 different systems so far... That also doesn't address the thrust system, or the docking system, or any number of other things that are horrible for their controls relating to actually flying the ships.

[rairii]

23 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

Interesting you should mention that, because none of those controls work like that for me for some reason, and this is on 4 different systems so far... That also doesn't address the thrust system, or the docking system, or any number of other things that are horrible for their controls relating to actually flying the ships.

They're all functional and extremely easy to learn, you probably just never took the time to learn them.

QWEASD for pitch/yaw/roll are the controls the game is shipped with, along with shift and ctrl to throttle up and down, z and x for full throttle or minimum throttle respectively, and docking and rendezvous are more a matter of understanding which burns to make and where. It's got a learning curve but the controls ARE functional and don't really need improvement.

[Kraken]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:23 PM, BTGBullseye said:

Interesting you should mention that, because none of those controls work like that for me for some reason, and this is on 4 different systems so far... That also doesn't address the thrust system, or the docking system, or any number of other things that are horrible for their controls relating to actually flying the ships.

So can you give us a run-through of the issues? Like these are some pretty specific problems we're looking at. If we're talking about flight, the reason that it might not be all that maneuverable can come down to a few things:

• Speed, which affects the amount of air moved by control surfaces
• Presence of control surfaces, or lack thereof
• Positioning of control surfaces behind the center of mass relative to the front of the plane (Putting CoL in front of the CoM tends to make it too unstable.)
• Thrust Vectoring engines, or non-thrust vectoring. (engine nozzle gimbals/turns/moves and makes thrust go to an angle)

If something is too maneuverable (but still stable), press Caps lock once and it should go into fine control mode, which makes the WASDQE controls have significantly lower maximum input.
As for maneuvering in space, use RCS (larger ships especially, or for docking) or reaction wheels (can get heavy).

Although all of those are kinda void if you don't put a probe or command module on with crew. Or fuel. Or electricity for most of it. And if it's a probe with no crew, you probably need an antennae (or more importantly electricity), at least if you have the setting for requiring communications to control on.

[BTGBullseye]

Either the Caps Lock mod is on all the time, or thrust vectoring and an entire side covered in RCS thrusters can't maneuver as much as a gentle breeze does...

[rairii]

9 minutes ago, BTGBullseye said:

Either the Caps Lock mod is on all the time, or thrust vectoring and an entire side covered in RCS thrusters can't maneuver as much as a gentle breeze does...

I doubt you're using an engine strong enough to control your ship with thrust vectoring if you're having that much trouble with it.

You shouldn't use RCS thrusters to maneuver your ship during takeoff/in atmosphere anyway, that's what thrust vectoring and control surfaces are for. Do you have any fins or winglets? Are you using a small engine with a big ship? Are you using an engine that doesn't even have thrust vectoring? Show us an example of what you're trying to build and having trouble with.

[BTGBullseye]

I am in fact talking about rotating the ship in space, for which any thrust vectoring alone should be enough.

 

Also, your doubts are irrelevant.

[Kraken]

2 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

I am in fact talking about rotating the ship in space, for which any thrust vectoring alone should be enough.

 

Also, your doubts are irrelevant.

Do you want assistance with that or not? Because you haven't exactly given us the scenarios in which your ships are having control issues. We can't read your mind to see what the issue is. Maybe take a picture of the ship so we can see what you're trying to explain? Also using thrust vectoring 100% of the time in space is generally a bad idea since it wastes fuel and can mess up the orbit.

[rairii]

3 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

I am in fact talking about rotating the ship in space, for which any thrust vectoring alone should be enough.

 

Also, your doubts are irrelevant.

My doubts aren't irrelevant, I'm trying to help or at least figure out what issues you're having.

 

And you're not supposed to use thrust vectoring in space, that's what RCS and reaction wheels are used for. Thrust vectoring and control surfaces for takeoff and atmospheric control, RCS and reaction wheels for when you're in a vacuum.

[BTGBullseye]

2 hours ago, Kraken said:

Do you want assistance with that or not? Because you haven't exactly given us the scenarios in which your ships are having control issues. We can't read your mind to see what the issue is. Maybe take a picture of the ship so we can see what you're trying to explain? Also using thrust vectoring 100% of the time in space is generally a bad idea since it wastes fuel and can mess up the orbit.

I've already been through all this with the people that make the game, hence I'm not likely to find anything new from you.

2 hours ago, Annie said:

My doubts aren't irrelevant, I'm trying to help or at least figure out what issues you're having.

 

And you're not supposed to use thrust vectoring in space, that's what RCS and reaction wheels are used for. Thrust vectoring and control surfaces for takeoff and atmospheric control, RCS and reaction wheels for when you're in a vacuum.

Your doubts are about me using what I should be using, but even when I use a prebuilt from the game devs it still won't work right. So yes, your doubts are irrelevant.

[rairii]

31 minutes ago, BTGBullseye said:

I've already been through all this with the people that make the game, hence I'm not likely to find anything new from you.

Your doubts are about me using what I should be using, but even when I use a prebuilt from the game devs it still won't work right. So yes, your doubts are irrelevant.

My doubts are relevant because it takes either an IQ of below 60 or being a compulsive liar to claim the controls for KSP are non-functional.

[Psychotic Ninja]

38 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

ah you guys are being too mean to each other, i'm sure other players also struggle - here's hoping that things get improved so that we can have the best of both worlds, and so that hopefully everyone can be happy

 

No one's being mean here. One guy claims he has issues with the game, without providing proof of his complaints. Two people are trying to help him out. Personally speaking, I have no interest in Kerbal, but I'm excited for those who are excited for the sequel. I'll also say, the default control scheme does come off as needlessly complicated, however I'm sure one could get used to the controls if they really tried.

[rairii]

18 hours ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

yeah but, is there honestly any point? if he doesn't want to be helped out, just move on, that's my approach anyway, but i can sorta feel some kind of tension, like these replies weren't truly kind, i don't know, it's just a vibe i got, but the conversation came off as fairly agressive to me

 

no need to waste your time and your nerves, and you can always focus on helping people out who you feel deserve to be helped, i think that's more important overall, i just try to avoid conflict generally, and to me everything just sorta looks like it got derailed for no real reason

 

i don't know, the whole conversation just seemed kinda pointless to me, you know? anyway i'll move on as i don't really want to add more to this, sorry lol

It's less that he didn't want to be helped out (I figure in such situations it's best to just say so outright) and more that his experience isn't consistent with how the game is supposed to work. To give you some background, BTG does have a history of blatantly lying or getting information wrong to prove a point, and this isn't his first time justifying his criticisms of certain games with inconsistent personal accounts. That, and he seems to take any genuine attempt to help him out with something as a personal attack. At least, that's what it felt like in this thread.

[Wwen]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:32 PM, Annie said:

They're all functional and extremely easy to learn, you probably just never took the time to learn them.

QWEASD for pitch/yaw/roll are the controls the game is shipped with, along with shift and ctrl to throttle up and down, z and x for full throttle or minimum throttle respectively, and docking and rendezvous are more a matter of understanding which burns to make and where. It's got a learning curve but the controls ARE functional and don't really need improvement.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 9:32 PM, Annie said:

They're all functional and extremely easy to learn, you probably just never took the time to learn them.

QWEASD for pitch/yaw/roll are the controls the game is shipped with, along with shift and ctrl to throttle up and down, z and x for full throttle or minimum throttle respectively, and docking and rendezvous are more a matter of understanding which burns to make and where. It's got a learning curve but the controls ARE functional and don't really need improvement.

I found the keys to be less than great when trying to make slight adjustments. But then I just use mechjeb to make the maneuvers after making the nodes. That's how spacecraft work now anyway. Why would I take manual control unless it was absolutely needed?