Lybia and shit

[ThePest179]

http://history.cultural-china.com/en/34H7545H12588.html

 

http://history.cultural-china.com/en/34H7545H12590.html

 

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/china/a/TiananmenSquare.htm

[expertyejin]

Okay, you obviously can't understand logic. You defiantly rewrite history to serve your own purposes. I can't help someone who wants to make up his own logic and stick with it even though reality clearly states otherwise. Mao killed 30 million people (the great Chinese Famine doesn't count, as it was not instigated by the Chinese government). The Tiananmen Square protests resulted in 5,000 deaths at the most. The Chinese Nationalists had no airplanes, few cars, and almost no tanks. Nazi Germany is much worse than the USSR because of the Holocaust. I was wrong on communism and Nazism can coexist, but they cannot mix with each other. And even if I don't think the murders from the alleged police brutality don't exist, give me the website link anyway so I can understand your way of thinking. If Wikipedia is such a bad source I would love to see the sources you're using. So go on, tell me the sources. Just please tell me.

I think you should watch the whole series, rather than the very first video of that series on "Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party" (the reason I didn't copy/paste the URL of a playlist is because Accursed Farms doesn't allow me to do so), before you even start to debunk my claims, so that you'll know everything I said is based on hidden historical facts, not bullshit. The Great Famine does count as it was artificial rather than natural: it happened because of communist policy at that time which regarded African and Latin American countries brotherhood as a whole. Hence huge amount of food was freely exported oversea, leaving native Chinese starve to death. And wherever there is communism, massive famine and starvation always ensue. That's why the Holodomor happened in the USSR, and that's why nationwide famine is still happening in North Korea...And if you seriously believe all those disasters are natural and just happen in communist countries by accident, then I really, really admire your logic! And what do you know about the Tienanmen Square protests if you've neither been to China nor were you even born at that time?! I bet it's easier for you to believe in communist propaganda which says not a single person died from that protest. And don't tell me you really think that the artificial Holodomor was better than the Holocaust...At last, what's the point of giving you a link should the outcome be exactly the same - you won't believe me either way?!

[Lord Sinister]

At last, what's the point of giving you a link should the outcome be exactly the same - you won't believe me either way?!

 

If you do not show where YOU got your alleged facts from, you might as well be making stuff up. Whether or not other people choose to trust your sources or believe the information held within them is beside the point. They provide an opportunity for people to find other evidence to prove or disprove the information within those sources and to move the debate forward.

 

Provide those sources please or this discussion will have become meaningless and I will close this thread.

[expertyejin]

At last, what's the point of giving you a link should the outcome be exactly the same - you won't believe me either way?!

 

If you do not show where YOU got your alleged facts from, you might as well be making stuff up. Whether or not other people choose to trust your sources or believe the information held within them is beside the point. They provide an opportunity for people to find other evidence to prove or disprove the information within those sources and to move the debate forward.

 

Provide those sources please or this discussion will have become meaningless and I will close this thread.

In fact, I would really appreciate it if you could close this thread. Not because I have no sources, but such an ongoing discussion is a waste of time we could have spent on something more interesting and important.

[Lord Sinister]

At last, what's the point of giving you a link should the outcome be exactly the same - you won't believe me either way?!

 

If you do not show where YOU got your alleged facts from, you might as well be making stuff up. Whether or not other people choose to trust your sources or believe the information held within them is beside the point. They provide an opportunity for people to find other evidence to prove or disprove the information within those sources and to move the debate forward.

 

Provide those sources please or this discussion will have become meaningless and I will close this thread.

In fact, I would really appreciate it if you can close this thread. Not because I have no sources, but such an ongoing discussion is a waste of time we could have spent on something more interesting and important.

 

I consider this to be practically an admission that you never had sources to begin with. If you feel you have wasted time on this discussion then there is no need to lock this thread as you evidently will no longer be posting in it. If you do choose to post in this thread again with no sources for your claims I will consider it tantamount to trolling and will act accordingly.

[ThePest179]

I think you should watch the whole series, rather than the very first video of that series on "Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party" (the reason I didn't copy/paste the URL of a playlist is because Accursed Farms doesn't allow me to do so), before you even start to debunk my claims, so that you'll know everything I said is based on hidden historical facts, not bullshit. The Great Famine does count as it was artificial rather than natural: it happened because of communist policy at that time which regarded African and Latin American countries brotherhood as a whole. Hence huge amount of food was freely exported oversea, leaving native Chinese starve to death. And wherever there is communism, massive famine and starvation always ensue. That's why the Holodomor happened in the USSR, and that's why nationwide famine is still happening in North Korea...And if you seriously believe all those disasters are natural and just happen in communist countries by accident, then I really, really admire your logic! And what do you know about the Tienanmen Square protests if you've neither been to China nor were you even born at that time?! I bet it's easier for you to believe in communist propaganda which says not a single person died from that protest. And don't tell me you really think that the artificial Holodomor was better than the Holocaust...At last, what's the point of giving you a link should the outcome be exactly the same - you won't believe me either way?!

 

First, The Great Famine was accidental (due to Mao not realizing the scope of the problem), Holodomor was intentional, and the North Korean Famine started due to the fall of communism, and made worse by government polices.

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Causes-Great-Chinese-Famine-158880.html

 

http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14000-3/famine-in-north-korea

 

Second, If 20 million or more people died at Tiannen Square, that would mean Tiannen Square should have as many dead as the Nazi death camps Auschwitz, Treblinka, and the Soviet massacre at Katyn (which it did not).

[expertyejin]

I think you should watch the whole series, rather than the very first video of that series on "Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party" (the reason I didn't copy/paste the URL of a playlist is because Accursed Farms doesn't allow me to do so), before you even start to debunk my claims, so that you'll know everything I said is based on hidden historical facts, not bullshit. The Great Famine does count as it was artificial rather than natural: it happened because of communist policy at that time which regarded African and Latin American countries brotherhood as a whole. Hence huge amount of food was freely exported oversea, leaving native Chinese starve to death. And wherever there is communism, massive famine and starvation always ensue. That's why the Holodomor happened in the USSR, and that's why nationwide famine is still happening in North Korea...And if you seriously believe all those disasters are natural and just happen in communist countries by accident, then I really, really admire your logic! And what do you know about the Tienanmen Square protests if you've neither been to China nor were you even born at that time?! I bet it's easier for you to believe in communist propaganda which says not a single person died from that protest. And don't tell me you really think that the artificial Holodomor was better than the Holocaust...At last, what's the point of giving you a link should the outcome be exactly the same - you won't believe me either way?!

 

First, The Great Famine was accidental (due to Mao not realizing the scope of the problem), Holodomor was intentional, and the North Korean Famine started due to the fall of communism, and made worse by government polices.

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Causes-Great-Chinese-Famine-158880.html

 

http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14000-3/famine-in-north-korea

 

Second, If 20 million or more people died at Tiannen Square, that would mean Tiannen Square should have as many dead as the Nazi death camps Auschwitz, Treblinka, and the Soviet massacre at Katyn (which it did not).

First, stop feeding your own arrogance when you've never been to a communist country! The Great Famine was man-made:

 

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/feb/10/worst-man-made-catastrophe-ever/

 

Second, your article on North Korea doesn't mention the fall of communism at all. Do you want me to report you for lying and sending disinformation?

 

Third, you failed to mention that while the only crime committed by Nazi Germany was the Holocaust, crimes committed by the USSR include the Holodomor and the Great Purge, and perhaps some other state-terrorist policies as well.

[ThePest179]

First, Even if the Great Chinese Famine was man made that doesn't mean it was the only contributing factor!

Second, I admit that I was wrong about the Fall of Communism in relation to the North Korean Famine. It seemed to make sense that a country heavily dependent on foreign aid would go into a desperate situation when it's removed suddenly.

Third, Yes, Holodomor and the Great Purge were Stalin's doing, as well as other state terror activities. What exactly you wanted me to say is beyond me.

Fourth, The Holocaust includes every crime committed by the Nazi regime, just so we're clear.

[expertyejin]

First, Even if the Great Chinese Famine was man made that doesn't mean it was the only contributing factor!

Second, I admit that I was wrong about the Fall of Communism in relation to the North Korean Famine. It seemed to make sense that a country heavily dependent on foreign aid would go into a desperate situation when it's removed suddenly.

Third, Yes, Holodomor and the Great Purge were Stalin's doing, as well as other state terror activities. What exactly you wanted me to say is beyond me.

Fourth, The Holocaust includes every crime committed by the Nazi regime, just so we're clear.

First, I never said the artificial contribution to the Great Chinese Famine was the only factor; however, just because it wasn't the only factor doesn't mean it was a minor contribution.

 

Second, read this and you'll see that the current North Korean leader Kim Jong-un (him alone, not even the whole extended Kim family) possesses an assets roughly worth $5 billion:

 

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/kim-jong-un-net-worth/

 

Hence, the fact this huge amount of money is not enough to feed the people of a very tiny country clearly suggests something is wrong with communism and/or the North Korean regime.

 

Third, I was wrong for not having made this point earlier, because I really want to make things fair: I forgot to admit that Stalin did bring some reforms to the USSR when he first took office, such as developing heavy and light industries which were badly left behind because peasants and farmers (well the people in general) were excessively employed as slaves to boost agriculture when the Tsars ruled Russia. But otherwise, communism as a whole still sucks.

[Lord Sinister]

Fourth, The Holocaust includes every crime committed by the Nazi regime, just so we're clear.

 

The use of the term 'Holocaust' with regards to the Nazi regime is for exclusively referring to the mass murder of Jewish people under the Nazis. Whilst the Nazi regime did commit many other crimes, they are not covered under that term unless they directly relate to their systematic murder of Jewish people.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143

[BTGBullseye]

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/kim-jong-un-net-worth/

That link concerning the assets of Kim Jong-un has no links to resources, and claims to be citing an unspecified source... I wouldn't trust it to tell the truth about the color of the sky.

[ThePest179]

First, I never said the artificial contribution to the Great Chinese Famine was the only factor; however, just because it wasn't the only factor doesn't mean it was a minor contribution.

 

Second, read this and you'll see that the current North Korean leader Kim Jong-un (him alone, not even the whole extended Kim family) possesses an assets roughly worth $5 billion:

 

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/kim-jong-un-net-worth/

 

Hence, the fact this huge amount of money is not enough to feed the people of a very tiny country clearly suggests something is wrong with communism and/or the North Korean regime.

 

Third, I was wrong for not having made this point earlier, because I really want to make things fair: I forgot to admit that Stalin did bring some reforms to the USSR when he first took office, such as developing heavy and light industries which were badly left behind because peasants and farmers (well the people in general) were excessively employed as slaves to boost agriculture when the Tsars ruled Russia. But otherwise, communism as a whole still sucks.

 

First, Kim Jong-un uses his assets primarily for himself, saying anything different would be a blatant lie.

Second, Did I ever say communism was a good system? No, I didn't. Unless you want to claim I did, just like your accusations of US war crimes in the War on Terror, claims that the US is/will become Fascist, that Nationalist China could defeat Japan, and claims of collaboration between the US and communists.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Guest (see edit history)

[ThePest179]

Fourth, The Holocaust includes every crime committed by the Nazi regime, just so we're clear.

 

The use of the term 'Holocaust' with regards to the Nazi regime is for exclusively referring to the mass murder of Jewish people under the Nazis. Whilst the Nazi regime did commit many other crimes, they are not covered under that term unless they directly relate to their systematic murder of Jewish people.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143

 

It's just a convenient means for me to designate Nazi crimes more easily. Don't show your Wikipedia sources though. @expertyejin will claim they are false.

[BTGBullseye]

Yeah, if the part you're quoting from Wiki is an unsourced quote, then yeah, otherwise Wiki has the sources at the bottom of the page, and those are the real sources. (not Wiki itself)

[expertyejin]

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/kim-jong-un-net-worth/

That link concerning the assets of Kim Jong-un has no links to resources, and claims to be citing an unspecified source... I wouldn't trust it to tell the truth about the color of the sky.

How about this one:

 

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/03/12/2013031201144.html

 

"Chosun" means Korea. Hence, if you claim the Daily News network from Korea is fake then there is really nothing else I have to say to you.

[expertyejin]

First, I never said the artificial contribution to the Great Chinese Famine was the only factor; however, just because it wasn't the only factor doesn't mean it was a minor contribution.

 

Second, read this and you'll see that the current North Korean leader Kim Jong-un (him alone, not even the whole extended Kim family) possesses an assets roughly worth $5 billion:

 

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/kim-jong-un-net-worth/

 

Hence, the fact this huge amount of money is not enough to feed the people of a very tiny country clearly suggests something is wrong with communism and/or the North Korean regime.

 

Third, I was wrong for not having made this point earlier, because I really want to make things fair: I forgot to admit that Stalin did bring some reforms to the USSR when he first took office, such as developing heavy and light industries which were badly left behind because peasants and farmers (well the people in general) were excessively employed as slaves to boost agriculture when the Tsars ruled Russia. But otherwise, communism as a whole still sucks.

 

First, Kim Jong-un uses his assets primarily for himself, saying anything different would be a blatant lie.

Second, Did I ever say communism was a good system? No, I didn't. Unless you want to claim I did, just like your accusations of US war crimes in the War on Terror, claims that the US is/will become Fascist, that Nationalist China could defeat Japan, and claims of collaboration between the US and communists.

You didn't explicitly say communism was good, however it seems to me that you might be defending communists when I talked about their crimes. You were underestimating the scale of their crimes even though I've already provided several sources. And about the fact that Kim Jong-un uses his assets primarily for himself, well clearly he keeps this huge amount of money for himself rather than spending it on agriculture as well as various fields of technology to meet the people's need. Thus if you only blame the famine on removal of foreign aid as opposed to Kim's corrupt regime then you might be trying to defend Kim.

 

Plus why did you all of a sudden shift topic from communism to Nationalist China vs Japan and other stuff?

[Lord Sinister]

It's just a convenient means for me to designate Nazi crimes more easily.

 

I was mentioning it because doing that is liable to cause confusion for people discussing this.

 

Don't show your Wikipedia sources though. @expertyejin will claim they are false.

Yeah, if the part you're quoting from Wiki is an unsourced quote, then yeah, otherwise Wiki has the sources at the bottom of the page, and those are the real sources. (not Wiki itself)

 

I was using it solely to show that 'The Holocaust' refers to that particular sequence of events. Obviously the article itself may possibly contain inaccuracies, but I would assume the main subject of the content is quite evident. I did provide the other link as well though, just in case.

[BTGBullseye]

I think this has gone way off topic... It's supposed to be about Lybia... And shit...

[ThePest179]

You didn't explicitly say communism was good, however it seems to me that you might be defending communists when I talked about their crimes. You were underestimating the scale of their crimes even though I've already provided several sources. And about the fact that Kim Jong-un uses his assets primarily for himself, well clearly he keeps this huge amount of money for himself rather than spending it on agriculture as well as various fields of technology to meet the people's need. Thus if you only blame the famine on removal of foreign aid as opposed to Kim's corrupt regime then you might be trying to defend Kim.

 

Plus why did you all of a sudden shift topic from communism to Nationalist China vs Japan and other stuff?

 

First, providing more accurate numbers for crimes (The way I see them) is just that. It doesn't make their crimes any more acceptable.

Second, I mentioned all that stuff because YOU mentioned it a few posts back.

[ThePest179]

I think this has gone way off topic... It's supposed to be about Lybia... And shit...

 

In light of calls for a cease-fire, I would like to say I am ready to declare a truce. Is @ expertyejin ready for a truce?