Let's talk about NPC intelligence

[EightInchNails]

The Goal Oriented Action Planning system, first implemented in the video game F.E.A.R., is considered by some to be the most realistic video game AI system ever created and has yet to be bested by another game, yet the actual programming behind it is very simple. Why is it nobody's taken that and expanded upon it in a way that's made it into a more recent AAA release?

[BTGBullseye]

Because copyright.

[BTGBullseye]

3 hours ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

wut

That AI is copywritten by Warner Bros.... You really think they would just let anyone use it?

[EightInchNails]

19 hours ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

wut

 

uhhh...  anyway, i could be wrong, please correct me, but, it takes time to refine a simple system, and most people who work on videogames, do it to feed their family, it's not really a passion project for most people, it's just a day to day job to them, they just try to get things done, to get their paychecks, but beyond that, some people are just, either not really into it, or they are just not really putting the real effort needed, to get what looks like a simple system, actually working properly

 

For nearly 15 years?

[Psychotic Ninja]

On 7/18/2019 at 9:45 PM, BTGBullseye said:

That AI is copywritten by Warner Bros.... You really think they would just let anyone use it?

 

I call that bold talk for a one eyed fat man.

[BTGBullseye]

3 hours ago, Psychotic Ninja said:

 

I call that bold talk for a one eyed fat man.

I'll have you know, that eye patch is only for show!

[EightInchNails]

I call that bold talk for someone who is not on a unicycle.

Edited July 20, 2019 by CharlieHadron (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

It might be trying, but it's failing.

[Eshanas]

Does anyone else think AI has reached a plateau? On one hand, you have stuff like F.E.A.R which has great AI for the time; or rumours that stuff like the Chernobyl series had to tone down their AI lest the AI complete the game without the player. And then you get stuff like Fallout: NV, and the Assassin's Creed Games, and Far Cry, where the AI doesn't seem to be 'dumb' but you can game them and tell their limits very quickly.

 

Maybe I'm missing something - I'm stuck on a 'gaming laptop' that overheats quickly even with an attached fan - and there are plenty of games out there with AI that can keep you on your toes or doesn't act like, well, a robot in a video game all the time. Any games press the envelope or impress ya'll?

[Kraken]

17 minutes ago, Eshanas said:

Rumours that stuff like the Chernobyl series had to tone down their AI lest the AI complete the game without the player.

Not even close to rumours for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.. I'm playing Shadows of Chernobyl and the AI is actually fairly competent. Most of the time. I don't know what F.E.A.R. levels of AI are (having never played it), but I'd say that S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has a pretty good system. Although I've heard the grenade-wielding enemies in the later S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games are ridiculous. The AI parts that made them ridiculously competent were dummied out as far as I've heard. But they slowly brought it back in later S.T.AL.K.E.R. games. It's hit or miss, really.

[BTGBullseye]

I dunno why, but the AI in The Division 2 seems quite good... Different types of AI for different types of NPC.

 

Civlians are extremely conservative and hide in cover almost exclusively.

Melee drug-hyped NPCs just rush right up to you.

Melee with shields tend to weave through knee-high or higher cover to protect their legs until they get to you.

Melee tanks just run right for you and murderize you, even at the lowest difficulty level.

Archery snipers use cover, and only pop their heads up to acquire you and fire.

Gun snipers use cover and snipe or use abilities, and will run away if you get too close. They also tend to move from cover to cover after shooting.

Grenadiers tend to stay within throwing distance, and will hide in cover until about the time the grenade explodes, then fire and move cover.

Assault-type varies based on faction, but tends to get more reckless the lower your health percentage compared to theirs. (like walking instead of running, out of cover towards your position, but runs back to cover if you heal and fire at them)

Flamethrower-type guys use cover to get near you, then just suppress you until you die. (this includes riot foam guys)

LMG guys just overwhelm you with bullets. They use suppressing fire, cover, and even prone firing positions. Once their armor is gon, they use cover pretty exclusively.

Edited July 26, 2019 by BTGBullseye (see edit history)

[grayling]

2 hours ago, Kraken said:

Not even close to rumours for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.. I'm playing Shadows of Chernobyl and the AI is actually fairly competent. Most of the time. I don't know what F.E.A.R. levels of AI are (having never played it), but I'd say that S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has a pretty good system. Although I've heard the grenade-wielding enemies in the later S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games are ridiculous. The AI parts that made them ridiculously competent were dummied out as far as I've heard. But they slowly brought it back in later S.T.AL.K.E.R. games. It's hit or miss, really.

Yeah, just as a warning for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky, if you play the game unmodded (you should at least grab something that fixes bugs, that game is a mess in that department), the enemies are INCREDIBLY grenade-happy and will throw them constantly from my memories. Stalker's AI hiccups are more just them getting bugged than anything, not them being stupid.

 

Also, this may not fit in overall with the thread, but I have to post this. While I was replaying Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Griggs would NOT stop throwing medkits. I collected a big pile of them, but there were a ton more in the other tunnels and near the Vortigaunt keeping Alyx stable. He didn't stop throwing them after the combat was over, either. I have no idea why. Maybe it's because I edited the skills.cfg file. Shrug.

 

Speaking of Griggs, though - I wonder why the other Half-Life 2 rebel medics don't throw kits like Griggs does. He's the only one who does it IIRC, all other medics have to run up to you and just give it to you directly.

[Kraken]

40 minutes ago, Webworm said:

Speaking of Griggs, though - I wonder why the other Half-Life 2 rebel medics don't throw kits like Griggs does. He's the only one who does it IIRC, all other medics have to run up to you and just give it to you directly.

He's the only competent medic. Or really the only one I trust. Probably because he can't be killed so any stupidity his AI does isn't that big a deal to him.

[sulupickles]

I'm writing a game at the moment for which I've developed a more complex RNN system.

[Plegyvap]

On a more general note, of why AI did not advance much in the past years, I think that it is simply a problem of indies not having enough resources to develop something better and the bigger companies not having a reason to do it. As already mentioned it is a job for them, games with poor AI are still selling, so why bother improving it when improving graphics is easier.

Honestly, I don't remember the AI in F.E.A.R. being notably smarter. The simulated radio chat was nice and I remember them flanking me once but most of the time it didn't seem different than most shooters. But sure, in side by side comparison with other games it would come on top. One of the reasons it didn't seem so good could also be that the map layout did not have that many tactical options.
I guess the best when it comes to AI in gaming now comes from AIs developed to work as a player. Like all those Starcraft playing AIs and more recently MOBA AIs. I think I also remember someone boasting about an neural network based AI, though NNs are basically just good old throwing more hardware at the problem.

With the hardware we have today there is an opportunity to grab some graphicaly undemanding engine and use that spare power to create something really ambitious, like those games which simulated whole space systems with economy and NPCs traveling around but even bigger. I would like to see that. A capable AI squadmate would be cool too. Or a believable stealth game.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Plegyvap (see edit history)