US Presidential Election 2016

[BTGBullseye]

Please don't discuss anything, just vote. This is a scientific experiment to determine what the demographics of the forums are.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Jeb_CC]

I'm not gonna vote on the poll cause I'm not an American citizen and have no idea who is a reasonable bloke to vote for. But I'd vote for Sanders I guess. XD

[Im_CIA]

Since when did comrade Bernie Sanderov become independent lol? Technically he's still running as a democrat.

[Descriptor]

You forgot Gary Johnson (Libertarian). It's not really a fair fight for right vs. left when Trump is the only one on the right.

[Heliocentrical]

Since when did comrade Bernie Sanderov become independent lol? Technically he's still running as a democrat.

These were my exact thoughts when I saw the poll. I'm guessing BTGBullseye is going by what Bernie Sandals's actual politics are as opposed to the party he's running under.

[BTGBullseye]

Technically he's still running as a democrat.

He was listed as an independent last I checked... He may or may not be listed as a Dem on the ballot, and there is a lot of controversy concerning his listing. Helios is correct that I listed him as the closest to his political affiliation as possible, considering the nebulous nature of his listing on the ballot.

 

You forgot Gary Johnson (Libertarian). It's not really a fair fight for right vs. left when Trump is the only one on the right.

I only included those candidates that had a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

[Descriptor]

Technically he's still running as a democrat.

He was listed as an independent last I checked... He may or may not be listed as a Dem on the ballot, and there is a lot of controversy concerning his listing. Helios is correct that I listed him as the closest to his political affiliation as possible, considering the nebulous nature of his listing on the ballot.

 

You forgot Gary Johnson (Libertarian). It's not really a fair fight for right vs. left when Trump is the only one on the right.

I only included those candidates that had a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

So? We can still vote for him. He's gunna be on all 50 ballots, and is already polling at 10%. If the whole point of this exercise is to see the political alignment of the forum, you should include him, since he will factor in to the anti-Trump vote. Or at least include a "none of the above" option, because honestly, in this election, we could use it.

[BTGBullseye]

He's gunna be on all 50 ballots, and is already polling at 10%.

This isn't Europe, it takes a lot more than 10% to win an election here.

 

Or at least include a "none of the above" option

Included. Also enabled revoting so people can change their minds.

[Heliocentrical]

I'm not voting because I just don't care. My politics aren't represented in the slightest nor do they align with the general public's so I'm effectively screwed.

[Jeb_CC]

@Heliocentrical: Isn't it illegal to not vote? >.> Or is that just Australia?

Pardon me if that's the case!

[UndeadNecro]

Yeah, I'm sort-of with Heliocentrical. I don't vote because I have no interest and I'm not exactly represented. Ever.

[Heliocentrical]

@Heliocentrical: Isn't it illegal to not vote? >.> Or is that just Australia?

Pardon me if that's the case!

Nope, it's completely legal to not vote in the US. I've also heard it's illegal to not vote in Canada too so it's not just Australia. I don't really get the sentiment behind making it illegal to not vote. My not vote is basically saying " Our political system is fucked, get it fixed or I'll have no part in what is ostensibly a game known as "The Democratic Process"" and from what I understand my opinion is part of the silent majority's in this regard. I apologize if I sound pretty sour on this issue but it's how I honestly feel.

[Descriptor]

@Heliocentrical: Isn't it illegal to not vote? >.> Or is that just Australia?

Pardon me if that's the case!

Nope, it's completely legal to not vote in the US. I've also heard it's illegal to not vote in Canada too so it's not just Australia. I don't really get the sentiment behind making it illegal to not vote. My not vote is basically saying " Our political system is fucked, get it fixed or I'll have no part in what is ostensibly a game known as "The Democratic Process"" and from what I understand my opinion is part of the silent majority's in this regard. I apologize if I sound pretty sour on this issue but it's how I honestly feel.

And that's why it keeps being crappy.

If you're not going to vote, at least vote for a third party. Or write in someone. It won't work, but it certainly won't work if you don't vote at all.

Your silence just sounds like tacit acceptance to the folks in charge.

[Heliocentrical]

If you're not going to vote, at least vote for a third party. Or write in someone. It won't work, but it certainly won't work if you don't vote at all.

Your silence just sounds like tacit acceptance to the folks in charge.

Except voting third party is pointless due to the spoiler effect. At that point you're abiding purely by principle and I'm not a person who abides by that. IMO it's not worth wasting my time over. The only difference between you voting for a third party and me not voting is that you have faith whereas I don't. I'm central in regards to politics so I'm statistically screwed. I'm not willing to pretend that I hold all the answers to fix what is an ancient and entrenched political system so I've chosen to opt-out. Call it cowardly, I call it sane. You can either scream at everything wrong with the world or you could simply move on, not bothering to giving it a passing glance. Odds are you don't have any power to begin with so what's even the point?

 

Or who knows, I could vote for Trump and rub salt into the wound that is his inevitable presidency. At this point I could honestly care less if the world burns. Or not, the world didn't end when George W. Bush became president despite all the flak he got now did it? Now I'm not saying he was a great president but we're still here aren't we? In this shitstain of a world.

[Descriptor]

If you're not going to vote, at least vote for a third party. Or write in someone. It won't work, but it certainly won't work if you don't vote at all.

Your silence just sounds like tacit acceptance to the folks in charge.

Except voting third party is pointless due to the spoiler effect. At that point you're abiding purely by principle and I'm not a person who abides by that. IMO it's not worth wasting my time over. The only difference between you voting for a third party and me not voting is that you have faith whereas I don't. I'm central in regards to politics so I'm statistically screwed. I'm not willing to pretend that I hold all the answers to fix what is an ancient and entrenched political system so I've chosen to opt-out. Call it cowardly, I call it sane. You can either scream at everything wrong with the world or you could simply move on, not bothering to giving it a passing glance. Odds are you don't have any power to begin with so what's even the point?

 

Or who knows, I could vote for Trump and rub salt into the wound that is his inevitable presidency. At this point I could honestly care less if the world burns. Or not, the world didn't end when George W. Bush became president despite all the flak he got now did it? Now I'm not saying he was a great president but we're still here aren't we? In this shitstain of a world.

It's only a spoiler if you were gunna vote for someone else to begin with. Otherwise, you're just sitting there and taking it.

Every time any group in history said "I just won't vote, that'll show 'em", they usually ended up getting screwed because the people they most disagreed with won as a result. It's a much stronger statement to vote against the so-called inevitable. And for the record, I'm a centrist as well. At this point, though, I'd just want to see a third party get somewhere to break up the political constipation of the current two parties.

[Heliocentrical]

It's only a spoiler if you were gunna vote for someone else to begin with. Otherwise, you're just sitting there and taking it.

Every time any group in history said "I just won't vote, that'll show 'em", they usually ended up getting screwed because the people they most disagreed with won as a result.

The same could be said for those who do vote as well due to the spoiler effect. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. What does it matter at that point?

 

It's a much stronger statement to vote against the so-called inevitable.

Do you think your single solitary statement will set some sort of precedent for the future or something? It's just a statement. Individualism dies within any democracy and this is a corrupt democracy at that. Not that I have any better suggestions for systems of government.

 

I'd just want to see a third party get somewhere to break up the political constipation of the current two parties.

Then I'm afraid we've reached an impasse. No offense but where you see a possibility for a better future I see only a comforting illusion. IMO we're overly concerned for the future. We've fucked up in numerous ways and there's no going back. We need to be for the here and now in terms of survival instead of focusing on an overly optimistic future.

[Descriptor]

It's only a spoiler if you were gunna vote for someone else to begin with. Otherwise, you're just sitting there and taking it.

Every time any group in history said "I just won't vote, that'll show 'em", they usually ended up getting screwed because the people they most disagreed with won as a result.

The same could be said for those who do vote as well due to the spoiler effect. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. What does it matter at that point?

 

It's a much stronger statement to vote against the so-called inevitable.

Do you think your single solitary statement will set some sort of precedent for the future or something? It's just a statement. Individualism dies within any democracy and this is a corrupt democracy at that. Not that I have any better suggestions for systems of government.

 

I'd just want to see a third party get somewhere to break up the political constipation of the current two parties.

Then I'm afraid we've reached an impasse. No offense but where you see a possibility for a better future I see only a comforting illusion. IMO we're overly concerned for the future. We've fucked up in numerous ways and there's no going back. We need to be for the here and now in terms of survival instead of focusing on an overly optimistic future.

 

I think you're misusing the spoiler effect in this context. While yes, the spoiler effect is a legitimate problem with ever getting more than 2 active parties (in a 1 person, 1 vote system, at least), it's not really much of an excuse not to vote. Again, if you weren't going to vote for anyone in the first place, then at the end of the day, you voting for a third party won't spoil anything. You can use it to argue that a third party run is pointless, but it's hardly an excuse not to vote. Your obstinance against voting due to democracy undermining individualism is just contributing to the tragedy of the commons, which is, ironically, something relegated to individualism. Don't get me wrong, I have no real aspirations of fixing anything, but I still can't sit idly by and just let things happen, even if it's futile. Because at the end of the day, if it's all so truly meaningless, trying has no consequence, so why the hell not try? It can't hurt any more than just giving up and letting the insanity wash over you.

[Heliocentrical]

@Descriptor you've just admitted that what you're arguing for is futile. If it is futile then there is about as much point in trying as there isn't in not trying. However I would argue that trying to accomplish something futile is purely Sisyphean. Whereas if you don't care there's still a chance of you moving on to something else more important due to the lack of investment. You've only got only some much time on this Earth why would you do that to yourself?

 

Sisyphus wasn't cursed by the gods. The gods cursed the boulder so that it would tumble everytime Sisyphus made progress with it. The actual tragedy of his story is that Sisyphus dooms himself to push the boulder up a hill and cannot see anything outside of it. I know re-interpreting classical works isn't best metaphor in the world. But you've completely lost me with what you're arguing for. Plainly speaking it makes no sense.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Descriptor]

@Descriptor you've just admitted that what you're arguing for is futile. If it is futile then there is about as much point in trying as there isn't in not trying. However I would argue that trying to accomplish something futile is purely Sisyphean. Whereas if you don't care there's still a chance of you moving on to something else more important due to the lack of investment. You've only got only some much time on this Earth why would you do that to yourself? I would never die because of principle.

I would hardly consider making the smallest of efforts to vote to be equivalent to dying for your principles. The risk vs. reward system for this is pretty minuscule, after all. Thus why I said it doesn't hurt to try. It literally doesn't.

 

Also, you're making a very ridiculous assumption in thinking I would otherwise be doing something important with my time.

[SCZephyrinus]

+1 vote for heliocentral: The one that acknowledges our system is bad. Having a president that knows things are bad is much better than one that pretends it's all well and good.