Games you used to love, but now hate

[Blightmare]

The way HL2 does its (non-crossbow) projectiles is a kind of hybrid projectile/hitscan. It uses mathematics to determine the distance the bullet has traveled along the hitscan path, and unless you're in the path when the projectile is supposed to hit, it doesn't do any damage. It also renders a projectile, and updates its position based on the mathematics.

I'm trying to think why they would even do that. If this is true then they overcomplicated a rather simple method by using both setups to do what basically a rendered projectile would do by itself. With a rendered projectile, all the math and collision checks are done on the projectile itself (whatever method they use to move the projectile, collision checks, physics if any, even trailing particle effects) I want to think it was a sign of the times but it's basically what they did for the crossbow anyways so... idunno. Maybe I'm missing something but that just sounds like bad practice.

[BTGBullseye]

Essentially, it traces projectiles based on the physics math, not the framerate & display position of the projectile. (which was surprisingly common at the time)

[The Hamburglar]

Essentially, it traces projectiles based on the physics math, not the framerate & display position of the projectile. (which was surprisingly common at the time)

Yeah, I was gonna say. I'm not an expert, but that sounds like the pretty common method for hitscan weapons.

 

Also Sonic Adventure. Jesus christ. What a mess!

[Psychotic Ninja]

Final Fantasy 7. Well, I wouldn't say I hate it, just I can autopilot the damn thing in my sleep. I've put more hours into it, than my actual life. Yes, I was playing it before I, and it, was born. I tried doing other things to breath new, fresh, air into the game. (On a side note, I do intend to get the 'controversial' remake.) I tried doing challenges, starting off with LLIE (which is supposed to be one of the easier challenges), I got as far as early disc 2, before finding it impossible, however, it did help in breathing new life into the game for me.

 

Then I discovered the New Threat Mod. Holy damn, this is exactly what I needed (and need for Skyrim, for similar reasons).

[Seattleite]

Funny thing is, I searched for LLIE to find out what it was. The only reference to it I can find is on your channel.

[Heliocentrical]

BG II(Baldur's Gate II), NWN I and KOTOR I. I still think the character progression in these games are great(except for KOTOR I because fuck KOTOR I). But man, if these games don't show that Bioware can't write for shit then I don't know what will. I'll start with BG II as it's easily the worst of the bunch IMO. Let me put it this way, I've beaten BG I whereas I haven't spend more then 20 mins with BG II once I figured out where the plot was going. BG I didn't require you to rescue Imoen who btw is single handedly one of the most annoying characters ever written in gaming IMO and the fact that most of the plot revolves around rescuing her is.

NWN I and KOTOR I aren't nearly as bad but their stories still suffer from being egregiously boring trite. Both stories in NWN I and KOTOR I are basically fetch quests. Go find/touch the four thingies to get the big reward thingy at the end and that's as far they ever go. Outside of KOTOR I having a pointless midgame plot twist they're pretty similar if you boil them down.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

So what game is "BG"? KOTOR and NWN are obvious since there aren't any other games that have those acronyms, but BG could mean any of a couple dozen games. (though seeing as you reference Bioware, I assume you mean the Baldur's Gate games)

[Heliocentrical]

So what game is "BG"? KOTOR and NWN are obvious since there aren't any other games that have those acronyms, but BG could mean any of a couple dozen games. (though seeing as you reference Bioware, I assume you mean the Baldur's Gate games)

Yes I was referring to Baldur's Gate II. Probably should append that since it's uncommon to abbreviate Baldur's Gate as BG.

[The Hamburglar]

BG II(Baldur's Gate II), NWN I and KOTOR I. I still think the character progression in these games are great(except for KOTOR I because fuck KOTOR I). But man, if these games don't show that Bioware can't write for shit then I don't know what will. I'll start with BG II as it's easily the worst of the bunch IMO. Let me put it this way, I've beaten BG I whereas I haven't spend more then 20 mins with BG II once I figured out where the plot was going. BG I didn't require you to rescue Imoen who btw is single handedly one of the most annoying characters ever written in gaming IMO and the fact that most of the plot revolves around rescuing her is.

NWN I and KOTOR I aren't nearly as bad but their stories still suffer from being egregiously boring trite. Both stories in NWN I and KOTOR I are basically fetch quests. Go find/touch the four thingies to get the big reward thingy at the end and that's as far they ever go. Outside of KOTOR I having a pointless midgame plot twist they're pretty similar if you boil them down.

KOTOR just didn't grab me. I have no idea what was up with it, but I liked KOTOR II just fine. I've never liked BioWare's gameplay too much, I always preferred Fallout and Planescape Torment for that isometric RPG action. I'm curious what you think of Neverwinter Nights 2.

[Heliocentrical]

KOTOR just didn't grab me. I have no idea what was up with it, but I liked KOTOR II just fine. I've never liked BioWare's gameplay too much, I always preferred Fallout and Planescape Torment for that isometric RPG action. I'm curious what you think of Neverwinter Nights 2.

I'm with you on KOTOR II and Planescape Torment. If I created a list for the most well written video games Planescape Torment would be at the top and KOTOR II would be just below it. Sadly I can't really make a list with just two games. Seriously, well written video games a practically nonexistent.

 

IIRC I played Neverwinter Nights 2 until midgame, hit a breaking point and never picked it up again. I seriously can't remember what happens in NWN 2. I just remember it being very boring. Obsidian usually does good writing but their games are often infested with bugs as well. Though I've heard good things about Pillars of Eternity so I might get around to playing at some point.

[The Hamburglar]

KOTOR just didn't grab me. I have no idea what was up with it, but I liked KOTOR II just fine. I've never liked BioWare's gameplay too much, I always preferred Fallout and Planescape Torment for that isometric RPG action. I'm curious what you think of Neverwinter Nights 2.

I'm with you on KOTOR II and Planescape Torment. If I created a list for the most well written video games Planescape Torment would be at the top and KOTOR II would be just below it. Sadly I can't really make a list with just two games. Seriously, well written video games a practically nonexistent.

 

IIRC I played Neverwinter Nights 2 until midgame, hit a breaking point and never picked it up again. I seriously can't remember what happens in NWN 2. I just remember it being very boring. Obsidian usually does good writing but their games are often infested with bugs as well. Though I've heard good things about Pillars of Eternity so I might get around to playing at some point.

Pillars is great! I totally recommend it, writing and gameplay are solid. It fixes a lot of micromanaging hassles that were present in a lot of the classic Black Isle games. I definitely feel like Baldur's Gate hasn't aged as well as I remembered, because I was super excited when I found another copy of it and played it for about...20 minutes and went back to Morrowind. Bioware has a habit of making games that do not age well.

 

As for a "Best Written Games List" you could probably populate both System Shock games on there as well...but that's a topic for another thread.

[Heliocentrical]

Bioshock, while I loved the atmosphere there are points in the story that are stupid and contrived. At the beginning I thought it was fine,I liked all the audiologs telling me all the little details of each given area. Only when it gets to Jack's backstory is when things turn to shit.

There's an audiolog of Suchong trying to prove that his mind control works, by telling Jack to snap the neck of a puppy. Out of all the things they could've have Suchong do why did the storywriters go with the most obvious choice? I get Suchong is supposed to be cruel but this is horribly hamfisted. Did Suchong have Jack burn down an orphanage too? Then for the last half of the game you get experience the intense drama between Jack and Fontaine because that's interesting right?

 

 

Honestly why does Jack's Backstory even exist? Bioshock would've been infinitely better without it.

[Selfsurprise]

Bioshock, while I loved the atmosphere there are points in the story that are stupid and contrived. At the beginning I thought it was fine,I liked all the audiologs telling me all the little details of each given area. Only when it gets to Jack's backstory is when things turn to shit.

There's an audiolog of Suchong trying to prove that his mind control works, by telling Jack to snap the neck of a puppy. Out of all the things they could've have Suchong do why did the storywriters go with the most obvious choice? I get Suchong is supposed to be cruel but this is horribly hamfisted. Did Suchong have Jack burn down an orphanage too? Then for the last half of the game you get experience the intense drama between Jack and Fontaine because that's interesting right?

 

 

Honestly why does Jack's Backstory even exist? Bioshock would've been infinitely better without it.

You see I really liked the first two Bioshock games, the setting is spectacular and the plot in both is serviceable enough with some really standout characters (I like Sander Cohen, I'm a sucker for a psychopath with a flair for the artistic). That being said, retrospectively reading that bit about Suchong and the puppy just seems hilarious now, but not necessarily in a bad way. There seems to be an unspoken rule in pop culture that you can kill as many people as you like and you'll remain a pretty average villain, but as soon as you even hint at making a dog mildly uncomfortable then you're an absolute bastard.

[Heliocentrical]

You see I really liked the first two Bioshock games, the setting is spectacular and the plot in both is serviceable enough with some really standout characters (I like Sander Cohen, I'm a sucker for a psychopath with a flair for the artistic). That being said, retrospectively reading that bit about Suchong and the puppy just seems hilarious now, but not necessarily in a bad way. There seems to be an unspoken rule in pop culture that you can kill as many people as you like and you'll remain a pretty average villain, but as soon as you even hint at making a dog mildly uncomfortable then you're an absolute bastard.

But that doesn't make it any less poorly written. The fact that I could come up with something like that in 2 seconds should speak out as to how poorly thought out that audiolog is. What's frustrating is that they did this right the first time with J.S Steinman. Steinman didn't kill a puppy for the hell of it. He was trying to make his vision of the perfect woman and his pursuit drove him mad when he kept failing over and over again. The shock value isn't the focal point with Steinman it's a byproduct and it's also ambiguous. Can you figure out what he did to his clients to make them look like that? Obviously not whereas with Suchong he tells Jack to break the puppies neck and that's literally it. It doesn't mean anything except that Suchong is a dick. It's quite jarring to go from a well written, nuanced character like J.S Steinman and Sander Cohen to completely flat characters like Suchong.

 

I would tend to hold Bioshock a lot higher then pop culture shlock but I suppose you can't help that when developers are willing to make a half assed character.

[The Hamburglar]

You see I really liked the first two Bioshock games, the setting is spectacular and the plot in both is serviceable enough with some really standout characters (I like Sander Cohen, I'm a sucker for a psychopath with a flair for the artistic). That being said, retrospectively reading that bit about Suchong and the puppy just seems hilarious now, but not necessarily in a bad way. There seems to be an unspoken rule in pop culture that you can kill as many people as you like and you'll remain a pretty average villain, but as soon as you even hint at making a dog mildly uncomfortable then you're an absolute bastard.

But that doesn't make it any less poorly written. The fact that I could come up with something like that in 2 seconds should speak out as to how poorly thought out that audiolog is. What's frustrating is that they did this right the first time with J.S Steinman. Steinman didn't kill a puppy for the hell of it. He was trying to make his vision of the perfect woman and his pursuit drove him mad when he kept failing over and over again. The shock value isn't the focal point with Steinman it's a byproduct and it's also ambiguous. Can you figure out what he did to his clients to make them look like that? Obviously not whereas with Suchong he tells Jack to break the puppies neck and that's literally it. It doesn't mean anything except that Suchong is a dick. It's quite jarring to go from a well written, nuanced character like J.S Steinman and Sander Cohen to completely flat characters like Suchong.

 

I would tend to hold Bioshock a lot higher then pop culture shlock but I suppose you can't help that when developers are willing to make a half assed character.

 

The way System Shock 2 handled the idea of "doing the powers-that-be's bidding" way more responsibly; you were following Shodan's instructions to the T without questioning anything. It keeps the player involved while reinforcing the theme.

[BTGBullseye]

Come to think of it... World of Warcraft.

 

I would trade all the graphics improvements, and even run it at 640x480, to get back the pre-WotLK game. Back when hunters were useful in PvP for something other than dying, and could solo elite PvE mobs 5-10 levels higher than themselves if the player was skilled. Back before they nerfed all the fun classes in order to buff the boring ones. Back before the skill system had its guts ripped out, and replaced by a Fisher-Price system. Back when you needed real skill to beat things instead of just better gear. Back when a level 12 would make the journey across whole continents, usually dying dozens of times, just to see the amazing world they had created and grab a run through a dungeon. The game was objectively better back then.

[Bolthier]

One of my first gaming experiences which didn't hold up to the nostalgia came within a demo. Because I couldn't afford a memory card when I bought a console bundle of the PS2 with Jak 2, half of the time while I didn't repeat the first three missions of Jak 2 again and again (which I still love to this date) I played the demo of Ratchet & Clank. The demo disc came with a few others but unlocking double jump, smashing robots with my wrench was pretty satisfying. I even ignored my sisters birthday party once just because I had to finish one of the optional races. But when I borrowed the full game 10 years later from a friend I was kinda disappointed. While the Jak & Daxter series had this simple gameplay which unfolded into a rich story with cool characters and a kinda dark world, nothing in Ratchet & Clank was up to my memories. Stupid weapons, ever more ammo that didn't refill quick enough so that some levels where a pain in the ass when running out of a specific kind of ammo. Dull characters without any impacting story parts. Somewhere at the last third I just dropped it and that was it.

 

I was even a bit interested in Knack for letting me remember some of my childhood memories, but that ended well like many other launch window games. I'm kind hoping for another Jak & Daxter game but with an uninteresting game series like Uncharted I'm not really sure the developers from then would even remember how they made such great and simple jump'n'run games.

[PriestOfJudas]

Max Payne 1.

 

I guess I sorta enjoyed it when I first played it but now that I think about it, something about the whole bullet time mechanic seemed broken for me. As I kept playing the game, I kept waiting for the bullet time to be more satisfactory in its use rather than just some sort of spectacle the developers added. That feeling never really left me and it has increased long after finishing the game. To me, the bullet time never felt as satisfying or as useful as anyone else ever claimed it was.

 

I still enjoy the story, but I think the later games may have did a better job implementing bullet time.

[BTGBullseye]

bullet time

You do know you can enable a 'bullet time' mode in HL2 don't you? (it's really quite useful IMO)

[Heliocentrical]

One of my first gaming experiences which didn't hold up to the nostalgia came within a demo. Because I couldn't afford a memory card when I bought a console bundle of the PS2 with Jak 2, half of the time while I didn't repeat the first three missions of Jak 2 again and again (which I still love to this date) I played the demo of Ratchet & Clank. The demo disc came with a few others but unlocking double jump, smashing robots with my wrench was pretty satisfying. I even ignored my sisters birthday party once just because I had to finish one of the optional races. But when I borrowed the full game 10 years later from a friend I was kinda disappointed. While the Jak & Daxter series had this simple gameplay which unfolded into a rich story with cool characters and a kinda dark world, nothing in Ratchet & Clank was up to my memories. Stupid weapons, ever more ammo that didn't refill quick enough so that some levels where a pain in the ass when running out of a specific kind of ammo. Dull characters without any impacting story parts. Somewhere at the last third I just dropped it and that was it.

 

I was even a bit interested in Knack for letting me remember some of my childhood memories, but that ended well like many other launch window games. I'm kind hoping for another Jak & Daxter game but with an uninteresting game series like Uncharted I'm not really sure the developers from then would even remember how they made such great and simple jump'n'run games.

I remember Jak 2 being brutally difficult. I played and finished 1 previously but I couldn't beat Jak 2. So I just jumped straight into 3 and finished that. Due to this I didn't get what had happened at Jak 3's start and after I had beaten Jak 3 I was determined to beat 2. Once I did beat 2 all the puzzle pieces fit together. It was a rather interesting experience and it's encouraged me to try other series this way where I don't play games in a series in sequential order.