Valve News Network Podcast

[Heliocentrical]

@danielsangeo and @Jeb_CC how long can you play using your VR headset and how eye-straining is it to look at? Have you guys experienced any visual adverse side effects after using your VR headset such as headaches, dry eyes or blurriness? I'm aware that VR headsets can cause motion sickness but I haven't heard of any adverse visual side effects such as what I've described.

[danielsangeo]

Valve broke SteamVR for use with the Rift DK2 so I haven't used it that much. And I'm still having issues with juddering even now with my GeForce 970. When Half-Life 2 was working in my Rift, I was able to get from the beginning to the airboat on my first attempt, but then the airboat had scaling issues (the video looked too zoomed in to be usable). Valve fixed that, then I was able to get from the airboat to the part where you have to navigate under the bridge before Valve broke SteamVR and they haven't fixed it to date.

 

It's usable for me.

[Jeb_CC]

I think I was too stubborn to stop using it... even when I did feel sick. I was playing for like... 30 minutes? Played one of the demo games, and Team Fortress 2. The side effects during its use are... ignorable? But after I stopped wearing it, I had to sit down in an open space for 5 minutes and just look around for a while. XD I was tripping out. Like; "Woah, what the fuck. This is what real life looks like?" I had headaches for 10 minutes, but then I was ready to jump straight back into it so. :3 Not too bad. It's worth it, in my masochistic opinion. XD

 

@Daniel: It probably was the DK1... It was a while ago so...

[Akinaro]

And this is another problem with VR: they are seriously power hungry, Oculus HTC Vive or TrinusVR app.

 

So eve if someone gonna spend that 500-800$ for Oculus, Vive or Morpheus they would probably spend another 500-800 for new hardware(consoles are different story tho).

Because most of people that used DK2 or other goggles are tech guys that know "something" about it, and they try to have a bit more power in their PC than typical users.

 

But someone gonna buy VR goggles because everyone say that its so cool, and they saw screens of people playing new games.... and they end with looking for any old game that would run smooth or play with settings just to run it.

For past few years I changed my hardware loots of time, and I actually never could set modern games to max just too see how it would look, with oculus or with mobile goggles. Even if technically my hardware where capable to run it.

I dont care about it that much because almost none of new game fit my needs and I just stick with older ones, but when you look at it in a bit wider perspective its gonna be annoying for most of people.

 

No one said its gonna be cheap gadget, but to hit global trend in game industry it still need loots of work if we want see best quality games in VR for "everyone". For most of time its gonna be small step back in terms of quality, Not that big, but it would be visible for most of people.

[BTGBullseye]

And this is another problem with VR: they are seriously power hungry, Oculus HTC Vive or TrinusVR app.

 

So eve if someone gonna spend that 500-800$ for Oculus, Vive or Morpheus they would probably spend another 500-800 for new hardware(consoles are different story tho).

Because most of people that used DK2 or other goggles are tech guys that know "something" about it, and they try to have a bit more power in their PC than typical users.

You should consider that in the 80's and early 90's people were spending $2k-$10k just for a basic computer... Adjust for inflation, and you'll see that prices are so low now that people wonder how anyone could pay half a year's salary (average was actually 1/4-1/2 a year) just to be able to make a word document. Now consider a VR setup only costing a couple months for all the hardware required, and you can see how this isn't that expensive.

[Xeknos]

Ah, the great internet boogyman: the "casual gamer."

 

I'm sure you'd like these folks to apologize for getting jobs and having families or other such obligations.

 

(/snark)

 

On topic, I'm psyched for VR. A buddy of mine has a DK2, and he let me borrow it to play Elite: Dangerous. VR takes that game to a completely different level of immersion. I see it working really well for games like Elite: Dangerous or iRacing, so flight sims and racing sims, but maybe not as well for first person shooters, strangely enough.

[AP_Pastor]

VR for 1st person shooters will be a difficult experience imo, especially for fast-paced, competitive FPS. For slow-paced RPG's FPS hmm... maybe, it just depends on the game I guess.

 

That aside, I would love to experience VR. The level of immersion you can get with the game you're playing is already enough to catch my interest. I'm not that hyped though, as I believe it'll be a long ways' off before i will get to experience the Rift. The pricing is the reason for me.

[danielsangeo]

What they did for VR in Half-Life 2 (when it worked) was had the guns and crosshairs move (with the mouse) independently of the head. You can aim to multiple places without turning your head. This felt wonky as all get-out at first with the crowbar, but by the time I got to the place where you kill the two Metrocops ("They're going to be looking of you now. You'd better run; there's nothing else you can do here."), it suddenly clicked and it became super easy to figure out. I was actually aiming BETTER in VR than without it.

[BTGBullseye]

What they did for VR in Half-Life 2 (when it worked) was had the guns and crosshairs move (with the mouse) independently of the head. You can aim to multiple places without turning your head. This felt wonky as all get-out at first with the crowbar, but by the time I got to the place where you kill the two Metrocops ("They're going to be looking of you now. You'd better run; there's nothing else you can do here."), it suddenly clicked and it became super easy to figure out. I was actually aiming BETTER in VR than without it.

That really is the way it should be done. Turning your head IRL doesn't turn your gun, so why should it do so in a game?

[Selfsurprise]

Ah, the great internet boogyman: the "casual gamer."

 

I'm sure you'd like these folks to apologize for getting jobs and having families or other such obligations.

 

(/snark)

I'm with you on this one. I don't expect "special treatment" from the industry or market or whatever, but it would nice if the more ultra-competitive aspects of the gaming community could grasp that not everyone in the wold actually wants to trophy swagmaster their way through Bloodborne on super-hardcore-terrorism difficulty mode. It's the mediums equivalent of "bro, do you even lift" and I won't tolerate it, one little bit.

[danielsangeo]

What they did for VR in Half-Life 2 (when it worked) was had the guns and crosshairs move (with the mouse) independently of the head. You can aim to multiple places without turning your head. This felt wonky as all get-out at first with the crowbar, but by the time I got to the place where you kill the two Metrocops ("They're going to be looking of you now. You'd better run; there's nothing else you can do here."), it suddenly clicked and it became super easy to figure out. I was actually aiming BETTER in VR than without it.

That really is the way it should be done. Turning your head IRL doesn't turn your gun, so why should it do so in a game?

 

The biggest problem with this was and wasn't the fault of Valve. Because the game was originally made with 2D-only in mind, sides of your weapons that were never intended to be visible are now visible...and you can see where they never placed any polygons. This is especially noticeable on the gravity gun.

[Bob Builder]

Yeah, Offspring! Woooo!

[Heliocentrical]

There's this problem VR has with input. VR's disconnected from input. Your hands are using a controller/keyboard & mouse while your head is in a separate space. In this space your brain starts thinking that you can physical get up and move because you can no longer see your controller/keyboard & mouse. When that isn't the case and you're still sitting at your desk with your controller/keyboard & mouse. This creates a disconnect between what your seeing and what your feeling. I found this video by a guy named Errant Signal which better explains my points.

UEht8W6w2Rc

[Binky The Rabbit]

When that isn't the case and you're still sitting at your desk with your controller/keyboard & mouse.

That's what Hover Junkers is aiming to eliminate.

i-R-JMYTG14

[OscarTheTitan]

I'm honestly not surprised whatsoever that the Rift is $600. It's basically a really high-end monitor with some new and inventive tech. Getting a high refresh rate/high resolution monitor will set you back around that amount too. And I mean, why did people expect the Rift to be this incredible success to the masses? Considering the system requirements, the masses wouldn't be able to use the Oculus even if it was $300.

 

I honestly think that people are really just mad because they had hyped it up way too much and set entirely unreasonable standards.

[UndeadNecro]

I'm honestly not surprised whatsoever that the Rift is $600. It's basically a really high-end monitor with some new and inventive tech. Getting a high refresh rate/high resolution monitor will set you back around that amount too. And I mean, why did people expect the Rift to be this incredible success to the masses? Considering the system requirements, the masses wouldn't be able to use the Oculus even if it was $300.

 

I honestly think that people are really just mad because they had hyped it up way too much and set entirely unreasonable standards.

 

Ohohoho, definitely. People always look at the result, not the cause. What's that? I *can* play Crysis at some point in my life without feeling like I'm playing it on a potato 1.0? Alright, let me just buy it - Oh, wait, now I need to spend a ton of money getting a computer that can actually run this game with higher spec requirements than your average game of that time. Oops.

 

Even putting a device at anything over the cost of a console is being too obvious and simply ridiculous.

[BTGBullseye]

Getting a high refresh rate/high resolution monitor will set you back around that amount too.

Yet I can get 3 1080p monitors with 144Hz refresh for less than $600...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100160979%20600338123%20600417886%20600255030%204814%204017&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=90

 

Or a 2k (QHD, 1440p, 2560x1440, or whatever moniker best suits your fancy) monitor with 144Hz refresh with FreeSync for under $500...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009769

 

The price of a phone with similar resolutions isn't even that bad, you'd actually have to buy 2 cell phones with 2k displays to get to that price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100161551%204814%20600536970

 

The price of the Oculus is designed to rip you off.

[OscarTheTitan]

Getting a high refresh rate/high resolution monitor will set you back around that amount too.

Yet I can get 3 1080p monitors with 144Hz refresh for less than $600...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100160979%20600338123%20600417886%20600255030%204814%204017&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=90

 

Or a 2k (QHD, 1440p, 2560x1440, or whatever moniker best suits your fancy) monitor with 144Hz refresh with FreeSync for under $500...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009769

 

The price of a phone with similar resolutions isn't even that bad, you'd actually have to buy 2 cell phones with 2k displays to get to that price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100161551%204814%20600536970

 

The price of the Oculus is designed to rip you off.

 

Call me when these monitors offer the same VR features that the Oculus does. Resolution and refresh rate aside, the actual VR tech itself is the really killer. Not only that but, even after using the DK2, the actual physical quality of the Rift is super high-end. This (and the Vive) will be the "980 Ti's" of the first wave of VR. You think that if the new lineup of Nvidia GPU's with the new shrunk die technology was announced to cost $650-700 that people would be this angry? No, because the communication of the price was handled poorly. If Palmer Luckey hadn't given that infamous "ball-park" quote then I imagine that the backlash from this would not be nearly as significant.

[BTGBullseye]

You should look in at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7852

 

A little ways down the first page I mention something rather interesting about the overall price of the hardware itself... I personally don't think the development of the Oculus is worth paying an extra $480.

[Ross Scott]

Getting a high refresh rate/high resolution monitor will set you back around that amount too.

Yet I can get 3 1080p monitors with 144Hz refresh for less than $600...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100160979%20600338123%20600417886%20600255030%204814%204017&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=90

 

Or a 2k (QHD, 1440p, 2560x1440, or whatever moniker best suits your fancy) monitor with 144Hz refresh with FreeSync for under $500...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009769

 

The price of a phone with similar resolutions isn't even that bad, you'd actually have to buy 2 cell phones with 2k displays to get to that price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100161551%204814%20600536970

 

The price of the Oculus is designed to rip you off.

None of those are IPS panels except for the phones, and I don't know what the refresh rates and response times are on those. Maybe getting a custom one in mobile space to operate at 90hz drives up the cost more. I can see there being some additional overhead. Also I could be mistaken, but I think the Rift is using OLED panels which might cost more. I can see it actually taking $600, I just question the argument that they're not making money off of it, what exactly is the business model then? Console manufacturers can sell below cost (though they haven't in a long time) because they make up the revenue off of licensing fees on games. OR doesn't seem to be doing that either.

 

In any event, I agree it's expensive, but for me this is the closest we're going to have to a holodeck for a long time and I've been missing this level of immersion ever since the early 2000s. Besides, between StarVR, Vive, Asus, and Gigabyte, we'll have at least 4 other options this year.