General American Politics Thread

[Im_CIA]

32 minutes ago, Annie said:

Again, no.

 

First of all there's a global pandemic going on and it'll continue through the entire year, so in-person voting isn't safe, certainly not for the demographic who typically vote by mail.

 

Second, visiting an in-person polling location isn't always feasible for people who use mail-in voting.

 

It may seem like a simple issue when you don't really think much about it, then again, not thinking seems to be a common issue with Trump supporters.

Oh come now, as dangerous as coronoavirus is, you can't deny that its scope and affect is politically charged. The left had already gone three monkeys on the pandemic when it encouraged mass protests and gatherings following the George Floyd murder; I can't imagine why they can't do the same with going to a polling station in order to vote out agent orange.

[kerdios]

well, if you can move all the ballot boxes to open fields and make sure people vote in bunches of... say 20, then it might be feasible/acceptable. (using either web application for timing or phone in scheduling , though that might lead to jim crow behavior in certain parts of the country)
Still I don't get how you're ok with hypothetically agent orange sabotaging the post office with crony apointees who will then ... what Pakman said ... don't remember all the intricacies by now, not my country and all.

Also what was the avg. age of the George Floyd protestors?
I'm assuming there weren't many over 65...

Edited August 14, 2020 by kerdios (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

23 minutes ago, kerdios said:

well, if you can move all the ballot boxes to open fields and make sure people vote in bunches of... say 20, then it might be feasible/acceptable.
Still I don't get how you're ok with hypothetically agent orange sabotaging the post office with crony apointees who will then ... what Pakman said ... don't remember all the intricacies by now, not my country and all.

Also what was the avg. age of the George Floyd protestors?
I'm assuming there weren't many over 65...

Let's assume that the majority of the protestors were below 65. Even if the elderly didn't directly get infected, the whole clamp down on mass gatherings was to stop the spread, which will eventually permeate across all demographics if left unchecked.  IN other words, Grandpa doesn't get corona because he goes to ragers, he gets it from his grandkids. 

But let's spin this a different way.
 

Past age 65, there is a noticeable uptick in Republican support. If Trump has a dubious plan for keeping geriatrics from the ballot box, then it's actually in the Democrats' pragmatic best interest to support him in that endevour

Edited August 14, 2020 by Im_CIA (see edit history)

[rairii]

1 minute ago, Im_CIA said:

Oh come now, as dangerous as coronoavirus is, you can't deny that its scope and affect is politically charged. The left had already gone three monkeys on the pandemic when it encouraged mass protests and gatherings following the George Floyd murder; I can't imagine why they can't do the same with going to a polling station in order to vote out agent orange.

I'll address the BLM protests first, because I feel like a lot of people forgot what happened just a couple of weeks prior. Remember operation gridlock, when a bunch of conservatives, libertarians, alt-righters, and other such fine and well-adjusted individuals blocked traffic and surrounded government buildings, armed to the teeth, NOT practicing any form of social distancing or wearing masks, all to protest coronavirus lockdown? Compare that to the BLM protests, where at least those participating are practicing social distancing where possible and reminding others to do the same, nearly everyone involved is wearing masks, the thing they're protesting is police brutality and not how oppressive slowing the spread of a deadly virus is,  and they're also not carrying firearms. A lot of right wing media outlets tried to claim (among other similar myths) that leftists were hypocritical for flooding the streets in protest and that this caused an increase of covid cases when the evidence actually shows that areas affected by the protest didn't see a notable increase in cases due to them.

 

Now, as for the scope and affect of the virus, I'd just like to say that coronavirus is about as politically charged a topic as any other. There are lots of non-negotiable things out there that people think are up for debate, this is where people have trouble separating fact from opinion. Lots of people, for example, will claim the earth is flat. This is a politically charged topic and lots of people will say, for example, that it's "just their opinion" that the earth is flat when what they're saying is actually factually incorrect. This is the first example I mentioned because it's really easy to get on-board with flat-earthers being wrong. What about LGBT rights though, and transgender rights in particular? Anti-trans rhetoric is popular to the point where I'd say it's basically just the default position for anyone who lives in the U.K. and calls themselves a feminist, and yet most of it is at best based off of decades-old obsolete research and misinterpreted and misrepresented statistics, and at worst based off of outright lies and misinformation, or irrational fear. It's the same thing with anti-vax rhetoric, holocaust denial, the general practice of linking certain forms of media with certain different behaviors (video games with violence, for example.)

What I'm getting at with this is that coronavirus is no different. It's not trans people who politicize transgender issues, it's not round earthers who politicize the shape of the planet, it's not pro-vaxxers who politicize immunization, and it's not the doctors and public health and safety officials who so heavily politicized coronavirus prevention. It's the people denying that masks work, ignoring social distancing guidelines, and coming up with wild conspiracy theories about Dr. Fauci that make coronavirus such a politically charged topic. It was an inevitability that the virus would affect the political climate but it wasn't the left who went off the deep end in absolute defiance of common sense rather than just putting a mask on and staying at home where necessary.

 

As for once again asking people to visit polling locations to vote out Trump, again- you're missing the point.

[rairii]

God why do I write essays for strangers on the internet. My English teacher would be proud.

[Im_CIA]

On 8/13/2020 at 10:45 PM, Annie said:

I'll address the BLM protests first, because I feel like a lot of people forgot what happened just a couple of weeks prior. Remember operation gridlock, when a bunch of conservatives, libertarians, alt-righters, and other such fine and well-adjusted individuals blocked traffic and surrounded government buildings, armed to the teeth, NOT practicing any form of social distancing or wearing masks, all to protest coronavirus lockdown? Compare that to the BLM protests, where at least those participating are practicing social distancing where possible and reminding others to do the same, nearly everyone involved is wearing masks, the thing they're protesting is police brutality and not how oppressive slowing the spread of a deadly virus is,  and they're also not carrying firearms. A lot of right wing media outlets tried to claim (among other similar myths) that leftists were hypocritical for flooding the streets in protest and that this caused an increase of covid cases when the evidence actually shows that areas affected by the protest didn't see a notable increase in cases due to them.

 

Now, as for the scope and affect of the virus, I'd just like to say that coronavirus is about as politically charged a topic as any other. There are lots of non-negotiable things out there that people think are up for debate, this is where people have trouble separating fact from opinion. Lots of people, for example, will claim the earth is flat. This is a politically charged topic and lots of people will say, for example, that it's "just their opinion" that the earth is flat when what they're saying is actually factually incorrect. This is the first example I mentioned because it's really easy to get on-board with flat-earthers being wrong. What about LGBT rights though, and transgender rights in particular? Anti-trans rhetoric is popular to the point where I'd say it's basically just the default position for anyone who lives in the U.K. and calls themselves a feminist, and yet most of it is at best based off of decades-old obsolete research and misinterpreted and misrepresented statistics, and at worst based off of outright lies and misinformation, or irrational fear. It's the same thing with anti-vax rhetoric, holocaust denial, the general practice of linking certain forms of media with certain different behaviors (video games with violence, for example.)

What I'm getting at with this is that coronavirus is no different. It's not trans people who politicize transgender issues, it's not round earthers who politicize the shape of the planet, it's not pro-vaxxers who politicize immunization, and it's not the doctors and public health and safety officials who so heavily politicized coronavirus prevention. It's the people denying that masks work, ignoring social distancing guidelines, and coming up with wild conspiracy theories about Dr. Fauci that make coronavirus such a politically charged topic. It was an inevitability that the virus would affect the political climate but it wasn't the left who went off the deep end in absolute defiance of common sense rather than just putting a mask on and staying at home where necessary.

 

As for once again asking people to visit polling locations to vote out Trump, again- you're missing the point.

No, you can't claim to be a champion of science and then handwave away blatant violations of CDC guidelines through the halo effect and "at least it's not wrong think". You either have mass gathering, or you don't. Providing leniency because of ingroup/outgroup mentality destroys credibility. 

[rairii]

2 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

No, you can't claim to be a champion of science and then handwave away blatant violations of CDC guidelines through the halo effect and "at least it's not wrong think". You either have mass gathering, or you don't. Providing leniency because of ingroup/outgroup mentality destroys credibility. 

Literally at what point did I ever say this? One group of protestors refused to follow CDC guidelines and were protesting against safety guidelines, whereas the OTHER group of protestors made an EFFORT. I wrote 3 paragraphs, you can do better than 2 sentences waving away everything I wrote to instead accuse me of something I didn't do.

[rairii]

On 8/13/2020 at 2:46 PM, Annie said:

It's funny. I know republicans and the far right in general love to misrepresent their political opponents but usually they're not this blatant about it. Try harder.

Still holds true.

[Im_CIA]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

One group of protestors refused to follow CDC guidelines and were protesting against safety guidelines, whereas the OTHER group of protestors made an EFFORT. I wrote 3 paragraphs, you can do better than 2 sentences waving away everything I wrote to instead accuse me of something I didn't do.

The costal elite wore masks, the rest formed a writhing hot mass of disease that's hell bent on turning all cities into the RoboCop post apocalypse.  Sure, anyone can cherry pick the ideal Nobel Savage on both sides, but the truth is the grassroots left is just as dumb as cross burning Bubba Jo in his trailer park. 

[Mira]

You're doing a lot of beating around the bush just to avoid admitting that you don't really have a defense for the administration's kneecapping of the postal service, a transparent act of sabotage in order to influence the election in favour of the incumbent president. Who's to say it'll stop here if people don't take a stand against it? Whether or not this specific measure will end up being a crucial factor in Trump "stealing" the election is impossible to say right now, but you are not being honest if you wave this off as nothing significant.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Mira (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

Quote

 you don't really have a defense for the administration's kneecapping of the postal service

Yes

Quote

You're doing a lot of beating around the bush just to avoid admitting that you don't really have a defense for the administration's kneecapping of the postal service

see this

 

Quote

Let's assume that the majority of the protestors were below 65. Even if the elderly didn't directly get infected, the whole clamp down on mass gatherings was to stop the spread, which will eventually permeate across all demographics if left unchecked.  IN other words, Grandpa doesn't get corona because he goes to ragers, he gets it from his grandkids. 

But let's spin this a different way.

Past age 65, there is a noticeable uptick in Republican support. If Trump has a dubious plan for keeping geriatrics from the ballot box, then it's actually in the Democrats' pragmatic best interest to support him in that endevour

 

 

[Mira]

That's not a defense, that's just downplaying the issue. You can't seriously think that it'll just be people over 65 who will want to avoid polling places for fear of infection. I see you still haven't actually watched the video Kerdios posted which pointed out that two-thirds of voters who plan to show up at the voting booth are Trump voters while nearly three quarters of mail voters plan to vote for Biden, and you also didn't read the part where I said that the president merely being willing and able to sabotage the election process in order to improve his own chances is disgusting and disconcerting in and of itself. Whether it will be effective or not is irrelevant right now; this should not be acceptable.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Mira (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

1 hour ago, Mira said:

That's not a defense, that's just downplaying the issue. You can't seriously think that it'll just be people over 65 who will want to avoid polling places for fear of infection. I see you still haven't actually watched the video Kerdios posted which pointed out that two-thirds of voters who plan to show up at the voting booth are Trump voters while nearly three quarters of mail voters plan to vote for Biden, and you also didn't read the part where I said that the president merely being willing and able to sabotage the election process in order to improve his own chances is disgusting and disconcerting in and of itself. Whether it will be effective or not is irrelevant right now; this should not be acceptable.

 

Retreading old ground again, see

On 8/13/2020 at 5:39 PM, Im_CIA said:

If people want Trump out, they should vote him out. If they are skeptictal of the postal service, then they should vote in person.

 

There, all your grievances are solved. 

 

[rairii]

On 8/17/2020 at 12:55 PM, Im_CIA said:

Retreading old ground again, see

Retreading old ground again. See:

On 8/13/2020 at 6:56 PM, Annie said:

Again, no.

 

First of all there's a global pandemic going on and it'll continue through the entire year, so in-person voting isn't safe, certainly not for the demographic who typically vote by mail.

 

Second, visiting an in-person polling location isn't always feasible for people who use mail-in voting.

 

It may seem like a simple issue when you don't really think much about it, then again, not thinking seems to be a common issue with Trump supporters.

[rairii]

God, you really are one dumb motherfucker.

[Im_CIA]

Ok, we've established that the vote by mail demographic is getting the short end of the stick.

 

Two caveats to that Ive covered already. 

 

1. The young, spry left leaning populace should have no qualms going to a booth since they have no problems ignoring the pandemic to go out and protest. You said some of them wore masks- great! They can wear masks when they cast their vote.

 

2. The elderly demographic, which absolutely must not get infected is truly losing out here- but as I pointed out, they tend to lean further right anyway. 

 

So again I'm asking, how is Trump stealing the election by running the post office out of town? As I see it, it hurts him just as much, unless of course he's counting on the left's weak resolve.  

[rairii]

49 minutes ago, Im_CIA said:

Ok, we've established that the vote by mail demographic is getting the short end of the stick.

 

Two caveats to that Ive covered already. 

 

1. The young, spry left leaning populace should have no qualms going to a booth since they have no problems ignoring the pandemic to go out and protest. You said some of them wore masks- great! They can wear masks when they cast their vote.

 

2. The elderly demographic, which absolutely must not get infected is truly losing out here- but as I pointed out, they tend to lean further right anyway. 

 

So again I'm asking, how is Trump stealing the election by running the post office out of town? As I see it, it hurts him just as much, unless of course he's counting on the left's weak resolve.  

I feel like you completely missed the part where it was pointed off that 75% of mail-in voters are expected to vote for Biden, which makes this move pretty transparently election fraud.

That said, this move should be stood against on principle regardless of who benefits or gets shafted.

[kerdios]

5 hours ago, Annie said:

... which makes this move pretty transparently election fraud.

...

It's not actual fraud since everything is done inside the (democratic) game's rules.

Now if his followers and the swing voters decide to reelect him even though he has been abd is actively sabotaging the infrastructure of his country is another question altogether.
On a side note, why is it the USA right is anti regulatory boards such as the EPA but pro regulatory boards such as the NHTSA?

[Alyxx Thorne]

13 hours ago, Annie said:

God, you really are one dumb motherfucker.

Do not flame other members, please. You'll be issued a warning for this.

[Blightmare]

14 hours ago, kerdios said:

It's not actual fraud since everything is done inside the (democratic) game's rules.

Now if his followers and the swing voters decide to reelect him even though he has been abd is actively sabotaging the infrastructure of his country is another question altogether.
On a side note, why is it the USA right is anti regulatory boards such as the EPA but pro regulatory boards such as the NHTSA?

Election Fraud is any attempt to, directly or indirectly, invalidate a vote. If this move is done willfully knowing that it will remove a lot of votes from the opposing candidate, then it is fraud.