General American Politics Thread

[Deep Dive Devin]

Closeted?

[Im_CIA]

16 hours ago, Shaddy said:

Closeted?

Nothing I wouldn't hear on a fourth of July cookout

Edited June 11, 2021 by Im_CIA (see edit history)

[Deep Dive Devin]

Damn, sorry about the people you hang out with on nationalism day.

[Im_CIA]

11 hours ago, Shaddy said:

Damn, sorry about the people you hang out with on nationalism day.

The predominantly black(working class) BBQs I've been to have the same level of racist banter being thrown around. Humans are tribalistic, there nothing wrong with throwing out a jab or two at the "other guy" while eating corn on the cob. 

[Deep Dive Devin]

I mean...yeah there is. "The other guy" is not an entire ethnic group(s). Humans are also naturally cooperative and social. Every time someone isn't is a choice they make.

[Im_CIA]

57 minutes ago, Shaddy said:

I mean...yeah there is. "The other guy" is not an entire ethnic group(s). Humans are also naturally cooperative and social. Every time someone isn't is a choice they make.

 

[Deep Dive Devin]

People are inherently prejudiced toward or against every superficial trait you can find on someone, that doesn't mean putting stock in them is desirable or that the playing field is in any way level. Saying "well we're all a little racist" is just a personal convenience to excuse whatever you feel like.

 

Everyone's a little bit bisexual too, but that doesn't mean every supposed heterosexual will feel attracted to the same sex in their life. Do they deserve to be called liars just because the theoretical possibility of that exists?

Edited June 11, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

There's a pretty significant difference though, and that is that saying mildly racist shit is normal if you're not an SJW, but actually doing stuff that is actually racist is pretty rare.

[Deep Dive Devin]

It's actually really easy to not get called racist by a fake caricature created by reactionary grifters for youtube clicks like the mythical "SJW" cryptid. Why should you demonize the rest of the world for not treating your personal incompetence with kid gloves?

Edited June 14, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

 

On 6/11/2021 at 7:47 PM, Shaddy said:

People are inherently prejudiced toward or against every superficial trait you can find on someone, that doesn't mean putting stock in them is desirable or that the playing field is in any way level. Saying "well we're all a little racist" is just a personal convenience to excuse whatever you feel like.

It's not whatever I feel like, we have laws against workforce discrimination and such, and for good reason: only a moron keeps a highly qualified person out of a job because of their genetic denomination. But lets say that I work with Moshe as an equal everyday and buy lunch bagels from his sister; what's the issue with me going home, swigging a beer, and cracking a Jew joke to my family during dinner? I think absolutely nothing. 
 

On 6/11/2021 at 7:47 PM, Shaddy said:

 

Everyone's a little bit bisexual too, but that doesn't mean every supposed heterosexual will feel attracted to the same sex in their life. Do they deserve to be called liars just because the theoretical possibility of that exists?

 

I mean, no? A straight guy checking out a dude on a beach is all part-and parcel of the human experience. Actually wanting to have gay sex is crossing the line of what can be considered purely heterosexual. It's the same difference between a racist joke and actual discriminatory practice. 
 

5 hours ago, Shaddy said:

It's actually really easy to not get called racist by a fake caricature created by reactionary grifters for youtube clicks like the mythical "SJW" cryptid. Why should you demonize the rest of the world for not treating your personal incompetence with kid gloves?

 

It is a caricature, but what's the problem? It's just a super-set of Antifa, Anarcho-communists, half of BLM, stand alone blue checkmark hot takers, and others- "SJW" sure beats saying that mouthful.  

[Deep Dive Devin]

5 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

It's not whatever I feel like, we have laws against workforce discrimination and such, and for good reason: only a moron keeps a highly qualified person out of a job because of their genetic denomination. But lets say that I work with Moshe as an equal everyday and buy lunch bagels from his sister; what's the issue with me going home, swigging a beer, and cracking a Jew joke to my family during dinner? I think absolutely nothing.

Do you think doing that sort of thing unironically has no effect, even subtly, on the biases you are reinforcing in yourself or others? I'm not going to have the "language has no effect" argument here.

5 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

I mean, no? A straight guy checking out a dude on a beach is all part-and parcel of the human experience. Actually wanting to have gay sex is crossing the line of what can be considered purely heterosexual. It's the same difference between a racist joke and actual discriminatory practice.

Okay, and who gets to decide where that line falls? You? Because it sure seems like the zeitgeist has moved away from casual racism, otherwise scaremongering about the cancel-goblins coming for your free speech would be a lot less popular (and let's not forget, profitable).

5 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

It is a caricature, but what's the problem? It's just a super-set of Antifa, Anarcho-communists, half of BLM, stand alone blue checkmark hot takers, and others- "SJW" sure beats saying that mouthful.  

So "SJW" is just a random point that happens to traffic between whatever loosely-related groups you feel like? Gee, that seems convenient.

[Im_CIA]

On 6/14/2021 at 3:55 PM, Shaddy said:

Do you think doing that sort of thing unironically has no effect, even subtly, on the biases you are reinforcing in yourself or others? I'm not going to have the "language has no effect" argument here.

Okay, and who gets to decide where that line falls? You? Because it sure seems like the zeitgeist has moved away from casual racism, otherwise scaremongering about the cancel-goblins coming for your free speech would be a lot less popular (and let's not forget, profitable).

 

Nah, it hasn't moved anywhere, it has only became unevenly disrupted. There's still a fairly open and fast growing market for "casual racism" geared towards Asians, Slavs, and the amalgamated yet all inclusive White man. 

[Deep Dive Devin]

Well no, that would actually be more evenly distributed, since racism against brown and black people actually hasn't gone anywhere either. The change I'm talking about has only been anticipated by the reactionary net. They're genuinely scared of being less-racist.

 

Also, assuming it's not something you pulled out of your ass (which you did, but let's ignore that for now) who are the people you're claiming are actually racist against white people?

 

Does it just so conveniently happen to be these "SJW"s, and do you not see the contradiction in saying "you're too sensitive about racism" and "you're the REAL racist" at the same time?

[BTGBullseye]

1 hour ago, Shaddy said:

who are the people you're claiming are actually racist against white people?

 

Does it just so conveniently happen to be these "SJW"s, and do you not see the contradiction in saying "you're too sensitive about racism" and "you're the REAL racist" at the same time?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/22/us/kendi-book-anti-racist-blake/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

https://cornellpress.manifoldapp.org/read/i-m-not-a-racist-but/section/351f960b-17b8-4454-9bcb-0bc4cd1de42f

 

That's the three most prominent results that aren't buried under a mountain of repeat articles about "whites are always racist against non-whites".

[Im_CIA]

1 hour ago, Shaddy said:

Well no, that would actually be more evenly distributed, since racism against brown and black people actually hasn't gone anywhere either. The change I'm talking about has only been anticipated by the reactionary net. They're genuinely scared of being less-racist.

 

Also, assuming it's not something you pulled out of your ass (which you did, but let's ignore that for now) who are the people you're claiming are actually racist against white people?

 

 

33 minutes ago, BTGBullseye said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/22/us/kendi-book-anti-racist-blake/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

https://cornellpress.manifoldapp.org/read/i-m-not-a-racist-but/section/351f960b-17b8-4454-9bcb-0bc4cd1de42f

 

That's the three most prominent results that aren't buried under a mountain of repeat articles about "whites are always racist against non-whites".

Here are some more examples

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-finds-yale-discriminated-based-on-race-in-undergraduate-admissions-11597351675

 

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2021/02/ny-principal-asks-students-parents-to-reflect-on-their-whiteness.html

 

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-nyt-yale-psychiatrist-shooting-white-people-20210607-6bu54qqttze6bgn3wtgb6vncpq-story.html

 

1 hour ago, Shaddy said:

Does it just so conveniently happen to be these "SJW"s, and do you not see the contradiction in saying "you're too sensitive about racism" and "you're the REAL racist" at the same time?

 

I'm not claiming that they're the real racists, I'm saying they are just as racist for swinging the pendulum too far the other way, and that's far more dangerous because it's tantamount to religious fanaticism. That's how we get actually dangerous mindsets like critical race theory opposed to a bbq peanut gallery. 

[Deep Dive Devin]

8 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/22/us/kendi-book-anti-racist-blake/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

https://cornellpress.manifoldapp.org/read/i-m-not-a-racist-but/section/351f960b-17b8-4454-9bcb-0bc4cd1de42f

 

That's the three most prominent results that aren't buried under a mountain of repeat articles about "whites are always racist against non-whites".

That's not actually answering what I'm asking, though. You may notice literally nobody said that racial supremacy movements don't exist outside of white people. I should know, I listened to a black woman rant about Mexicans being literal vermin a few years ago when I was working in LA.

 

But you may notice that the groups you've placed here almost universally hate LGBT people, Jewish people, and religions other than their own. And oops, guess that doesn't really place them in-line with the "SJW" menace, does it? Even if you disingenuously pretend that "white people bad" is what any meaningful part of your opposition believes, I sure am not seeing a lot of consistency between that ideology and the one you're claiming is calling you racist.

 

7 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2021/02/ny-principal-asks-students-parents-to-reflect-on-their-whiteness.html

 

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-nyt-yale-psychiatrist-shooting-white-people-20210607-6bu54qqttze6bgn3wtgb6vncpq-story.html

Same deal here, basically. The Yale one is a little more legitimate, so I'll give you that. But besides that, we have one school listing ways to be less shitty, and because anti-racism itself can't be critiqued, everyone focuses on the (admittedly poor) language. The second one is literally just agenda-pushing using what is clearly a mentally-ill person as a prop. Even if these weren't cherry-picked, they're not in any way damning of anti-racist rhetoric, just assigning a "believes what my opposition believes" role to whatever person is most convenient for you to attack. See how this rhetoric fails?

 

All of this is to say, this is a question of degree, not of kind. You could find a group of fascists who want to enforce beehive haircuts on everyone, but they're not gonna have the kind of clout or be the kind of threat that can be equated with white supremacy. And even if you did that, your so-called essjaydabyews would be against them anyway, which you only don't believe because "SJW" is a label invented so you don't have to listen to any opinions but your own.

7 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

I'm not claiming that they're the real racists, I'm saying they are just as racist for swinging the pendulum too far the other way

The pendulum hasn't swung. It's debatably not even moved. If it had, wealth, governments and military power would be more equally distributed in...literally any way whatsoever.

 

Also, if it's "too far the other way", then you absolutely are claiming that they're the "real" racists when compared to white racism, because you're saying one is a "real" problem and the other isn't.

7 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

and that's far more dangerous because it's tantamount to religious fanaticism. That's how we get actually dangerous mindsets like critical race theory opposed to a bbq peanut gallery. 

So, leaving aside "believing white supremacy still exists institutionally = religious fanaticism" as the rock fucking stupid take that it is, you know that most racial supremacy groups already are religious fanatics, right? How does that make people you accuse of religious fanaticism (and that, shocker, the other group calls atheist supremacists attacking their religion, but I'm sure you're just extra right about all this) a bigger threat? You're the one getting angry at people for pointing out racism, but you're still here saying that actually, racism DOES matter, but only when it's against white people.

 

 

Also, what do you think "critical race theory" actually is without looking it up? Bonus points if you don't regurgitate fascist talking points when describing it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

19 hours ago, Shaddy said:

The pendulum hasn't swung. It's debatably not even moved. If it had, wealth, governments and military power would be more equally distributed in...literally any way whatsoever.

So you're one of those people... The kind of person that thinks you can only be racist if you have power.

[Deep Dive Devin]

Literally nobody said that. I said the exact opposite at the very beginning of my previous post. Do you see why people might think y'all are a bit disingenuous when they're trying to argue with you?

 

And even if you were right, do you not see yet another contradiction there? Do you think I would say a white supremacist with no political or economic power wasn't a racist? Why would I be calling casual racism a problem if it's just coming from random people at CIA's barbecue? They're not the bourgeoisie.

 

(i mean, i assume.)

Edited June 19, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[rairii]

On 6/13/2021 at 11:51 PM, BTGBullseye said:

There's a pretty significant difference though, and that is that saying mildly racist shit is normal if you're not an SJW, but actually doing stuff that is actually racist is pretty rare.

man did you unironically bitch about sjws in the anno domini of our lord

[Emby]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:01 PM, Annie said:

man did you unironically bitch about sjws in the anno domini of our lord

Wait are they saying that it's okay to be racist, just not racist in public?