General American Politics Thread

[Kraken]

42 minutes ago, BTGBullseye said:

Is your reading comprehension off or something? I said you didn't have much of an argument because of how annoying they themselves are, and now you just proved my point by using a strawman argument.

 

You're getting upset about pride parades which typically only happen within the month of June. Hypocritical to say Annie is picking a strawman argument, when getting upset about LGBT+ pride isn't. I don't hear any annoyance about military parades. (Seriously we have a big enough military, it's not even a dick measuring contest anymore.) I'd say parades in general are annoying... but laying the blame specifically on LGBT pride is not the best reason to hate LGBT people.

Also I'd say that LGBT people are far more vocal in general because they have issues with the way they typically get treated in society. Christians might have more of a majority in America, but that's because they're the status quo and have been socially accepted for hundreds of years. They essentially have jack shit to say that people haven't already heard. And most of it is inherently hypocritical when they criticize LGBT people and people who have abortions, when Jesus Christ went out of his way to hang out with "the degenerates of society". Sounds like a good band name.

[BTGBullseye]

Now here's another using a different strawman, completely ignoring my original point yet again. You keep proving my point.

[Kraken]

1 hour ago, BTGBullseye said:

Now here's another using a different strawman, completely ignoring my original point yet again. You keep proving my point.

What if you just explain your point a bit more plainly? Because I can't tell what you mean besides taking it at face value. If you're failing to explain what you mean cohesively enough for other people to understand and then blaming us for it, it's not our fault.

In some cases it's a little hard to tell what exactly a person means. This is one of them. Because we don't hear what your thoughts are while you type something. You might think you're writing one thing and it comes out meaning something completely different.

 

Edit: I should also mention that we haven't heard any other examples of annoying behavior by the LGBT community. Not including us, according to you. Because we're having a debate. It's bordering on being ad hominem. (If you can say that unintentionally misinterpreting something is being annoying.)

Edited June 19, 2019 by Kraken (see edit history)

[Blightmare]

Try this on for size: If the point is being missed, reiterate on it and go from there instead of being uselessly condescending and dismissive.

 

There's already too many people like that, you don't need to contribute, it's an over-saturated field already. Aim higher.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Blightmare (see edit history)

[rairii]

13 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

Now here's another using a different strawman, completely ignoring my original point yet again. You keep proving my point.

Your entire "point" consisted of one sentence where you said LGBT+ people were "too outspoken" and apparently block traffic with pride parades. It's like Blightmare said, if you're being misunderstood then CLARIFY. There really isn't much to misunderstand here, all you're doing is insisting that we're using straw men without being specific.

 

Seriously. Give us a different criticism or try to clarify the first one.

[BTGBullseye]

No. I'm sick of this deliberate twisting of my words that I get any time I state something any of you disagree with. This isn't the first time either. *assume I said something additional that would get me banned here, because that's what I really want to say to you*

[Kraken]

5 minutes ago, BTGBullseye said:

No. I'm sick of this deliberate twisting of my words that I get any time I state something any of you disagree with. This isn't the first time either. *assume I said something additional that would get me banned here, because that's what I really want to say to you*

Okay, so what would you propose otherwise? We read better? We can't read something "better" which only can be interpreted safely in one way. Going beyond that would be assuming things, and would likely make the debate worse.

[rairii]

8 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

No. I'm sick of this deliberate twisting of my words that I get any time I state something any of you disagree with. This isn't the first time either. *assume I said something additional that would get me banned here, because that's what I really want to say to you*

On 6/18/2019 at 11:10 AM, BTGBullseye said:

How about being so annoyingly outspoken that there's a "pride" rally blocking traffic every other month for that 2-4.5% of the population.

WHAT ARE WE MISUNDERSTANDING HERE?

[rairii]

If you're gonna be annoying and stubborn then really, you have no ground to accuse LGBT+ people of being the same.

[rairii]

on the topic of abortion. very interesting video.

[Wwen]

I'm uncomfortable with abortions, but would allow it. Instances of deadly pregnancies, rape, and incest, are rare. I'd allow that.

 

Dig it, could do without the drama bits. Just pads outs the video. The analogy doesn't work. Comparing pregnancy to being a prisoner is off. I had never considered if a man should control women, but since that's been the claim, who is responsible for women's bodies? If they want to get rid of it and can't afford it, it's societies job to pay for it and if they want to keep it it's our job to pay for it's life as well. At what point do women claim responsibility for their own actions/bodies. It's not societies fault how women are biologically, that's why historically we've been taught to respect women...  It's also possible to not get preggers, right?

 

I will have to come back to the video for the last 10 min or so. As a person that watch Ben now and again, I like seeing better attempts to disagree with them.

[Kraken]

44 minutes ago, Schitaku said:

[snip]

I feel like only the first 15 of that list might actually be bad journalists.
Anyways every time I hear someone talk about "forced agendas" I just think about this tweet:

"The best thing about these big companies doing 'woke' ads is that all it means is they crunched the numbers and determined that racists/MRAs/whatevers weren't a market worth keeping. They all bleat about boycotting but they've been weighed and measured and found useless."

I mean yeah it's twitter, take it with a grain of salt, but I think it applies pretty well. Also I think suspecting Russia is behind everything is the wrong type of cynicism (although it's still a somewhat valid concern). Companies in America are more likely to fuck you over politically than Russians anyways.
I feel that there's not really a big "left leaning feminist movement" forcing anything. Like they might talk about boycotting a game, but I don't think it really goes anywhere. In Battlefield V for example, they were trying to market to a group that I feel really wasn't all that interested in buying it. Star Wars Battlefront II (the new one) might have had more success, but considering the extra debacle with lootboxes, any chance they had to entice a casual gamer was probably immediately slapped into the ground.

Also all media is just fucky. I avoid it if I can help it and use Politifacts or Snopes. And I avoid siding with politicians with a mile-long pole if I can help it, because none of them are that good. However I am keeping the borderline/actual racists, bigots, or proven assholes in general much further away, because really, being a complete dick is counter-productive to fixing an "issue".

I don't really know if it's possible for any game to completely shed a "political agenda" unless it has absolutely no story at all. Movies have this "problem" too you know, except I don't really hear a whole lot about it. But that's because the markets for games and movies have vastly different consumers. So while I might believe that a fair percentage (maybe like, 10-15% average per game community, it really depends where you're looking) of gamers are racist/sexist, it's still not what I'd consider a majority. Although to be fair, bigots are much more vocal than those that aren't bigoted.
 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Kraken (see edit history)

[rairii]

7 hours ago, Wwen said:

I'm uncomfortable with abortions, but would allow it. Instances of deadly pregnancies, rape, and incest, are rare. I'd allow that.

 

Dig it, could do without the drama bits. Just pads outs the video. The analogy doesn't work. Comparing pregnancy to being a prisoner is off. I had never considered if a man should control women, but since that's been the claim, who is responsible for women's bodies? If they want to get rid of it and can't afford it, it's societies job to pay for it and if they want to keep it it's our job to pay for it's life as well. At what point do women claim responsibility for their own actions/bodies. It's not societies fault how women are biologically, that's why historically we've been taught to respect women...  It's also possible to not get preggers, right?

 

I will have to come back to the video for the last 10 min or so. As a person that watch Ben now and again, I like seeing better attempts to disagree with them.

I feel like it should be noted that the "drama bits" are pretty integral to PT's style. One of the main criticisms "breadtubers" like him had with the right wing branch of political youtube was how boring and mundane it was. It's difficult to watch or listen to an hour of meandering speech when that time could be used in a more concise and entertaining way. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

To answer your questions: Women are responsible for their own bodies. Society has to pay for lots of ridiculous things but the well being of another human isn't among them as far as I'm concerned. If your concerned about where your tax money is going and your first thought is about poor people, then you should perhaps reconsider your priorities. It's not just poor people who get abortions either, by the way. Also, yes, it is possible to not get pregnant, but that isn't always the case. Pregnancy isn't a 100% voluntary action. It can be voluntary, but a lot of the time it isn't.

 

I feel like there aren't many particularly strong cases against abortion. It would take nothing short of the greatest salesman on the planet to sell a case for why abortion is murder, for example. The issue is that many of the arguments made against abortion are based on morality which, similarly to using morality as a case against guns or military spending, doesn't particularly work. The morality of an anti-abortion argument quickly becomes grey at best when faced with counter-accusations of amorality such as depriving women and other people with wombs of bodily autonomy, forcing those seeking abortion to get the job done with a coat hanger, placing those who get abortions in prison for life. My preferred way to discuss abortion is the practicality of it. Criminalizing abortion won't stop it, it will only make the process of getting one more dangerous. If the goal is to minimize harm, then criminalizing abortion is not the way to go.

[rairii]

1 hour ago, Schitaku said:

Why is it so Important for the left leaning Feminist movemant, to force their world view on the theme of a video game?

Do you really believe that Gamers are sexist and bigots? Do we have all to follow blindly Hillary Clinton? (Was this funded by FusionGPS too? Why should i listen to russia propaganda?) ... and, is there really no one left in the gaming scene who freely develope video game without any forced political agenda?

I mean, think of it this way, do you think people trying to gatekeep an entire medium from different demographics like LGBT people, women, and people of color might reasonably be seen as bigoted? Because we are talking about an ENTIRE MEDIUM here, there's a reason why gamers have become the laughing stock of the internet in recent years, they're a fucking miserable bunch. It's honestly embarrassing to me seeing these weird unattractive nerds gatekeep and defend their precious medium from SJWs or feminists or leftists or whatever the fuck has them pissing themselves in anger. I mean, for god's sake, you mentioned Hillary Clinton when she has nothing to do with the industry. Like I said: It's an entire medium! There's a lot of games out there! There are more games out there that fit your personal tastes than you have time in your life to play them.

[Delete this account]

35 minutes ago, Annie said:

gamers have become the laughing stock of the internet in recent years, they're a fucking miserable bunch. It's honestly embarrassing to me seeing these weird unattractive nerds

wew, some harsh words here. I think your opinion is ...uh... lets just say we agree to disagree here.

[Enviro-man]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

To answer your questions: Women are responsible

I stopped here.

1 hour ago, Annie said:

there's a reason why gamers have become the laughing stock of the internet in recent years, they're a fucking miserable bunch.

It would beg the question then of why even try to be part of that despondent group? Like, ew cooties n' shit! There are two forces at play here: one is trying to avoid their escapism turning into this ugly reality and the other is trying to insert their reality into it. The winner will be the one with the most purchasing power, i.e., def not the tumblrites.

 

Get woke go...

[dashofweak]

well it's been awhile since i've been on this thread and i'm pleased to see not much has changed beyond the topics and more left leaning people.

[Enviro-man]

2 hours ago, dashofweak said:

(...) and more left leaning people.

And they’ll keep on growing in numbers and deservingly so because right-wingers and centrists will always pucker up for the almighty Amazing Desmond as long as they can still keep their escapism unblemished. *spits on floor*

[rairii]

On 7/27/2019 at 1:14 AM, Enviro-man said:

I stopped here.

Well that's an awfully quick way to out yourself as a misogynist. Women are more capable of being responsible for themselves than you are of giving any kind of detailed response, apparently.

[rairii]

On 7/27/2019 at 1:14 AM, Enviro-man said:

It would beg the question then of why even try to be part of that despondent group? Like, ew cooties n' shit! There are two forces at play here: one is trying to avoid their escapism turning into this ugly reality and the other is trying to insert their reality into it. The winner will be the one with the most purchasing power, i.e., def not the tumblrites.

 

Get woke go...

Because video games are an entire medium, like I said? People enjoy video games like they enjoy movies or music, and that includes people who aren't part of some weird culture of overweight men who don't know what deodorant is.