ROSS RANTS: 3D

[Xombifier]

I'd probably follow a cult that idolizes Ross. So long as the holy text is common sense and it's not as closed down as some of the other ones (cough cough Scientology)

 

The holy text would be every quote from Freeman's Mind, all of the big points Ross makes in the Game Dungeon, everything he rants about, etc.

[ScottD.Betson]

I'd probably follow a cult that idolizes Ross. So long as the holy text is common sense and it's not as closed down as some of the other ones (cough cough Scientology)

 

The holy text would be every quote from Freeman's Mind, all of the big points Ross makes in the Game Dungeon, everything he rants about, etc.

We will need the book of Freeman pre HEV (training basically) suit training and the intro to the game before he gets into the suit which would be Genesis and revelations would be when he makes it to Xen and is given the choice of the job from the G Man or the Snark death

[ScottD.Betson]

I should mention this though Xombifier, I am also the kind of guy who would pray to the Almighty Kojima and say if you do not know the POWER OF KOJIMA YOU KNOW NOTHING PRILGRIM!!! but then again I idolize both Ross and Kojima alot!

 

 

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wowsers]

I tried the NVIDIA 3D mode on some games again after watching the video, and I can certainly see what you mean. I did get an increased sense of depth perception on a lot of them, which looked awesome, especially on Half-Life 2, but I only got the "sticking out of the screen"-feeling on Just Cause 2 with a first person mod since that game was made with NVIDIA 3D vision in mind. I used the red/cyan 3D glasses, which messed up all the colours and made it hard to see a lot of times, but I still think it was cool.

I think the game that immersed me the most with 3D mode would have to be Dirt 3 though. I used the first person perspective and I literally felt like I was inside the car. The track I raced on was really dark and the glasses made it even worse, but it still felt so REAL...

You know I found something that proves it was more than my imagination:

 

 

Now this is only using anaglyph mode, but back when I had an s-3d setup, I was using page-flipped shutter glasses. Regardless, if you look at these, you can tell there's definitely a difference between the two. Unfortunately it's likely multiple settings are different, but just from that screenshot I think the TriDef one definitely looks better. The roof windows and general perspective just seems better somehow.

I'll say one of the problem with 3D gaming is that the focus point, or where the anaglyph has no effect is really hard to do accurately. The simplest way to do any form of truly realistic depth requires at least somewhat eye tracking so the focus point would at least loosely be around where the player is looking, having infinite sharpness (like many games) tends to be easier to deal with since there is no need to track where the dof should be (player isn't restricted to looking straight forward on a specific point, which causes issues). I want to also address the way people try to justify 3d being shallow in a cinema, it's due to the screen being flat, I've seen one of those 45 minute IMAX 3D videos WAY before anything 3d even remotely came out where I live. The fact is that the IMAX cinema room was/is bigger than any other cinemas here AND it's a giant dome, this simplifies/enhances 3D and it works for everyone in the cinema. Since 3D in a regular cinema is projected on a small screen the 3d isn't prone to the brain-shattering depth IMAX can give, having amped up 3D to compensate causes the people viewing on the sides to have a really bad 3d experience, and the people running cinemas don't bad reviews.

 

The reason converting a regular 3D game for 3D glasses support is the obvious things like different depth settings, when and where the depth things happen in the graphics pipeline and general things available.

And last thing to note before I end this seemingly infinite post is that 3d should provide just as much depth forwards and back, but that shit is so hard to pull off most devs on all sides don't even care.

[Xombifier]

I should mention this though Xombifier, I am also the kind of guy who would pray to the Almighty Kojima and say if you do not know the POWER OF KOJIMA YOU KNOW NOTHING PRILGRIM!!! but then again I idolize both Ross and Kojima alot!

 

 

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm afraid then that I am just a filthy pilgrim who knows nothing. However, I am content with the bliss of this ignorance.

[GordonFreeman]

It's kinda funny when whenever you get mad at something, it sounds almost EXACTLY like the Ricochet ranting voice. It's a nice way to survive the ocean of time between Ricochet 1 and Ricochet 2.

 

 

Just in case somebody doesn't know what the fuck i'm talking about, Ricochet 2 was the way GabeN talked around Half Life 3, so i'm referring to Freeman's Mind 2

 

 

Going to add on to the Oculus-is-god-tier party.

[Nex]

Freeman's Mind 2 is now Civil Protection 2.

[ScottD.Betson]

I should mention this though Xombifier, I am also the kind of guy who would pray to the Almighty Kojima and say if you do not know the POWER OF KOJIMA YOU KNOW NOTHING PRILGRIM!!! but then again I idolize both Ross and Kojima alot!

 

 

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm afraid then that I am just a filthy pilgrim who knows nothing. However, I am content with the bliss of this ignorance.

I dont think you are in my opinion Xombifier, I just hate those PC gamers who think they can be pompous assholes about being an elitist.....you arent superior to me...infact you have more inferiority complexes than a man who is locked up in a mental institution who thinks they are Napoleon Bonaparte and is trying to win the battle of Waterloo

 

 

I mean I am sort of on the fence with PC gaming, I mean when Ross says we should play something like Tyrian I will play it since I trust him....and I actually am a fan of Tyrian, same with Quarantine...I would totally get Strife too if I had a big enough hard drive for it.

 

 

but I dont think you are a pilgrim Xombifier, I just wanted to imitate Elitists who think its better than anything....gets a bit annoying after a while....sort of am thankful for console gaming because I dont get BS like that....we only get Console debates...

[Otto]

Well, it depends on the context since he can be patient to wait for a movie to show up on "dvd"

 

Speaking of which, did somebody enjoy their birthday movie? IN 3D!?

[Xombifier]

 

 

I mean I am sort of on the fence with PC gaming, I mean when Ross says we should play something like Tyrian I will play it since I trust him....and I actually am a fan of Tyrian, same with Quarantine...I would totally get Strife too if I had a big enough hard drive for it.

 

 

but I dont think you are a pilgrim Xombifier, I just wanted to imitate Elitists who think its better than anything....gets a bit annoying after a while....sort of am thankful for console gaming because I dont get BS like that....we only get Console debates...

 

I totally understood what you meant, I was playing along with the joke. I too am annoyed by elitist gamers who feel so damn entitled and actually look down on those who do not share their opinions. Those kinds of people still have some growing up to do.

[ScottD.Betson]

 

 

I mean I am sort of on the fence with PC gaming, I mean when Ross says we should play something like Tyrian I will play it since I trust him....and I actually am a fan of Tyrian, same with Quarantine...I would totally get Strife too if I had a big enough hard drive for it.

 

 

but I dont think you are a pilgrim Xombifier, I just wanted to imitate Elitists who think its better than anything....gets a bit annoying after a while....sort of am thankful for console gaming because I dont get BS like that....we only get Console debates...

 

I totally understood what you meant, I was playing along with the joke. I too am annoyed by elitist gamers who feel so damn entitled and actually look down on those who do not share their opinions. Those kinds of people still have some growing up to do.

I 100% agree with you....I mean if they wanna talk about PC gaming and the hardware specs, do it in a polite manner, and at least try and help others out when they dont know what you mean....I mean Console Gamers I know for a fact arent as ridiculous I mean they can be competitive as all hell but they dont try and shove the love of Gaben down peoples throat every 20 seconds

[HLPrincess]

Well, it depends on the context since he can be patient to wait for a movie to show up on "dvd"

 

Speaking of which, did somebody enjoy their birthday movie? IN 3D!?

Umm...I didn't get this one blame it on a foreign language

[klasodeth]

You know I found something that proves it was more than my imagination:

 

 

Now this is only using anaglyph mode, but back when I had an s-3d setup, I was using page-flipped shutter glasses. Regardless, if you look at these, you can tell there's definitely a difference between the two. Unfortunately it's likely multiple settings are different, but just from that screenshot I think the TriDef one definitely looks better. The roof windows and general perspective just seems better somehow.

Objection! As a counterpoint, I've taken your comparison image and added a screenshot I just took of Mirror's Edge in the lower-left corner, with an additional copy of the TriDef screenshot to facilitate the side-by-side comparison:

 

 

I think you'll find that the perspective from my 3D Vision screenshot and from the TriDef 3D screenshot are nearly identical. Admittedly, I had to adjust the 3D settings to get it that close, but that was pretty easy to do. The 3D Vision software gives full control of the depth settings, and optionally convergence settings as well. The depth setting adjusts the scale of the perceived image depth, whereas convergence essentially adjusts how big everything appears to be. Pushing convergence far into the 3D scene tends to make everything looks smaller, which also tends to result in 3D pop out. Pulling convergence close to the camera tends to make everything feel larger, which avoids 3D pop out, but tends to create a more realistic looking scale. In a 3rd-person 3D game, pushing convergence way out makes it feel like I'm controlling an action figure in a toy city, and the character can end up floating in front of the monitor. In a case like that, I prefer setting convergence so that the character feels like they're right at the screen, and the stuff they're walking past starts streaming at me. The only real annoyances with adjusting convergence are A: enabling convergence controls is buried in the 'Set Keyboard Shortcuts' menu, and B: the convergence controls don't get an onscreen setting indicator, so it's sometimes hard to tell if the convergence setting is even doing anything. Due to the way the convergence setting works, initially there's almost no effect at all, and then once convergence goes out far enough the effect starts to get dramatic. But once convergence adjustment is enabled, there's no problem tailoring the 3D in each game to whatever you like.

 

The big problem I see 3D Vision is that most developers don't account for it. They use a lot of post-processing tricks that produce some really disorienting lighting, shadow, and water effects when viewed with 3D Vision. This was much less of a problem years back when 3D rendering was inherently simpler. Fortunately, for many popular games people have come forward to write custom shaders and whatnot in order to fix those problems. Helix Mod is an excellent place to go for those fixes.

 

It really is amazing how effective stereoscopic 3D can be when setup properly. I played Black Mesa in 3D, and it seemed like everything stood out. Stuff that I would have otherwise assumed to be textures on flat polygons at a glance turned out to be fully rendered details. Whether they be keys inserted into a console, switches on a control panel, or buttons on a guard's shirt, every tiny polygon that would otherwise be wasted detail stood out and really fleshed out the scenes. Clutter looks great in 3D too. In 2D clutter tends to blend together and just be "noise", but in 3D the individual objects stand out enough that a cluttered scene feels dense instead of noisy. I've found that the best games for stereoscopic 3D are the ones where a lot of the action occurs up close. Left 4 Dead 2 is great for this. Since the infected have to rush at the player to attack, pretty much the entire game is "in your face" 3D, and I love it.

 

And Ross, while everyone is different, I do have some possibly encouraging news about VR and motion sickness. I'm also prone to car sickness, and when I tried the Oculus Rift DevKit 1, it made me immediately nauseous in pretty much everything I tried. The only exception was a stereoscopic 3D version of the original Doom, strangely enough. Anyway, with DevKit 2 nausea has been pretty much a non-issue. Between the improved framerate, tracking, and latency reduction, I went from feeling like I needed to throw up seconds into a DK1 demo, to being able to play for hours with DK2 with barely anything in the way of ill effects. Certain types of movement could make me feel a bit weird, but nothing major or lasting like I was experiencing with DK1. As you pointed out in the video, there's always Dramamine, but in my experience being prone to motion sickness isn't necessarily an obstacle to VR.

 

Edited to add: Here's a link to the full-size anaglyph shot I took for the comparison:

 

Mirror's Edge Anaglyph Screenshot

 

Also, if you like, I can see about making some comparison screenshots later to show how different adjustments result in different levels of pop out.

[ScottD.Betson]

I wonder what Ross has cooking up next....mainly due to the post before this he said he had 2 experimental videos ready to go and i only see the Rant video, im really wondering what hes got cooking up in his cauldron for his audience next....

[Binky The Rabbit]

Another Ross Rants would be cool. Also GD.

[ScottD.Betson]

anything from Ross would be good

[klasodeth]

By the way Ross, what do you think of those red/blue nVidia anaglyph glasses? Even though I have the LCD shutter glasses, I bought some of the anaglyph ones just to have them, and the red lens is so obnoxiously red it kind of hurts my left eye to wear them. The blue lens seems to be fine though.

[BTGBullseye]

By the way Ross, what do you think of those red/blue nVidia anaglyph glasses? Even though I have the LCD shutter glasses, I bought some of the anaglyph ones just to have them, and the red lens is so obnoxiously red it kind of hurts my left eye to wear them. The blue lens seems to be fine though.

Sounds like you have a similar issue as me, color spectrum sensitivity. Your eye is overly sensitive to certain colors. Most people have slightly better sensitivity to red in the left eye, and blue in the right, but occasionally it is more pronounced. This issue is the main reason I stopped using anaglyph glasses decades ago, and am looking forward to stuff like the Oculus Rift.

[sullygass95]

Well, it's been over a month since his last bit of content/update. All I can say is, I hope Ross is making plenty of progress on that movie.

[Otto]

Well, it depends on the context since he can be patient to wait for a movie to show up on "dvd"

Speaking of which, did somebody enjoy their birthday movie? IN 3D!?

Umm...I didn't get this one blame it on a foreign language

 

You mean you didn't get the movie or you didn't understand what my comment was referring to?

If it's the former, don't worry, I probably wouldn't get it either.