ROSS'S GAME DUNGEON: BATTLEFORGE

[ScottD.Betson]

I suspect this Game Dungeon is going to get a lot more views than most of the others. At least in relative terms.

Huh. Ross seems to have a few relatively high profile fans. This guy, Notch, the SF Debris guy...

 

Okay, now I'm wondering. Was that really Richard Dean Anderson?

I think it was really RDA

[Ross Scott]

I think something that's ignored a lot in this kind of debate is how market-focused the corporate mindset is. It's easy to assume that the business model behind this is Take the Money and Run, but it’s frustratingly more complicated than that. From the way the corporations and merchants see it, a game being online-only means it has a clear, inherent possibility of being shut down. A possibility that is presumably obvious to the consumer. So, legally, it can be inferred that any customer willing to buy an online-only game is making a conscious decision to buy said game with full understanding of the risks involved. A few people on this thread mentioned making laws about this, and I can guarantee that the legal argument used to continue the practice would be similar to the one I just stated.

 

People assume these games have no reason to die, but why? There's no divine law stating that a game, by definition, must have some form of permanence. Nor is it considered illegal to sell people a product that will eventually be discontinued by the company. Logically, there's no reason it *has* to be done that way, but it works, people still buy it regardless and while its very lazy its not actually anything that's illegal or even approaches an illegal act. They sell it at the full price of a regular game. So what? This is a free market, unfortunately. We don't use a system where governments and civil populations are allowed to micromanage the price of any random commodity. Nor, for that matter, outlaw certain commodities just because they aren't a "good deal".

Somebody can probably put this into better words than I can, but my mentality is this issue transcends "inherent risk" or not a "good deal", because it's active destruction of culture. It illicits a shock reaction out of me, similar to what I would feel if I saw somebody burning an original painting. Left unrestrained, the free market can operate in a largely socipathic nature. This isn't something as obvious as a public safety issue where it's apparent to everyone that the practice needs to be banned, thus we have no protections against it. It's folly to assume that consumers are well informed about this. I've seen videos of people breaking down in tears over Star Wars Galaxies being shut down. People like that clearly are not prepared at all for a game being shut down. Or hell, from Battleforge:

 

"I enjoyed this game for 3 years, but if I knew they would close this game after 4 I wouldn't have invested a single second in it"

 

Gamers (as a whole) are some of the most easily deceived consumers out there unfortunately, ranking a little better than illicit drug users. If they weren't, we wouldn't have encroachments of microtransactions on a full-priced game, literally selling a game ending as DLC, or killing games. I think any study will show the VAST majority of gamers do not WANT these anti-consumer practices, they're just tolerated because consumers are either ignorant, or are so interested in the unique entertainment that they buy them in SPITE of the practices. Again, someone else can probably state this better than I can, but I see these practices as setting the worst precedent imagineable for the art / entertainment world. It says that it's mandated to simply destroy culture by design, which I can't see as anything other than dystopian. Like you said, there's no legal ground to basis this one (except maybe predatory practices), but I'm simply unable to see this practice as acceptable. Venting with this video is about all I can do

 

 

I suspect this Game Dungeon is going to get a lot more views than most of the others. At least in relative terms.

Wow, wasn't aware he watched any of my videos.

[BTGBullseye]

Gamers (as a whole) are some of the most easily deceived consumers out there unfortunately, ranking a little better than illicit drug users.

http://www.addictions.com/video-games/alarming-video-game-addiction-statistics/

http://www.techaddiction.ca/video_game_addiction_statistics.html

http://www.video-game-addiction.org/video-game-addiction-articles/new-facts-about-video-game-addiction-problem-more-widespread-than-expected.htm

 

Games are drugs.

[danielsangeo]

Subs up!

[Monkey with OCD]

Ok, I found a download for Die Hohlenwelt-Saga, but I am not entirely comfortable with reuploading it on a easier to access server, so if anyone else wants to do that, feel free:

 

http://www.goodolddays.net/file/file%2C850/id%2C719/type%2Cdownloads/

 

So far what I have found out is that the game uses cd audio, so you have to mount it in DOSBox using this line:

 

imgmount [drive letter] [path to .cue] -t iso

 

Once the game is installed, there is a split archive (HW.001 - 015) with one file in it, HW with no extension. Unfortunately, I have never tried to hack my way into a game's inner workings before, so I personally am stuck when it comes to hopefully finding where the text dialogue is kept. Not that I am fluent in German, either, I was just going to use Google Translate, but it's better than nothing. The only other files are a .CFG, a .OVL, and a .WSA. This looks like it could be a cool game so if anyone else feels like trying to get into the inner workings so as to translate it, or at least helping me, that would be greatly appreciated.

[Ross Scott]

Expect another experimental video later this month with two more in the works (but no set release dates).

 

 

[attachment=0]g.png[/attachment]

I may be a little late on that afterall, but it's not far behind.

 

Ok, I found a download for Die Hohlenwelt-Saga

You should post this in the follow-up episode thread instead.

[Monkey with OCD]

Expect another experimental video later this month with two more in the works (but no set release dates).

 

 

[attachment=0]g.png[/attachment]

I may be a little late on that afterall, but it's not far behind.

 

Ok, I found a download for Die Hohlenwelt-Saga

You should post this in the follow-up episode thread instead.

 

-_- Sorry, I wasn't looking and thought I did. I will go do that now.

[AP_Pastor]

Just a thought: if killing off games after few years and online DRM become standard operating procedures, and people are starting to realize that all this is complete bullshit, to the point of not buying games anymore, will there be any chance of a second Video Game Crash?

[BTGBullseye]

There are still indie game devs that absolutely refuse to incorporate DRM into their games... The second crash would happen only to AAA publishers that like to screw over their audience.

[scottmitting]

literally selling a game ending as DLC

 

 

I sincerely hope you're predicting a dystopian future, rather the describing something real. THAT shit is scary!

[AP_Pastor]

That would be suicide if they decide to put the ending out as DLC

[Bindal]

That would be suicide if they decide to put the ending out as DLC

I can still name THREE games that did it. Two of them failed, one was successful.

 

Dead Space 3 (Awakening DLC)

Prince of Persia Reboot

Alan Wake

 

The last one is where it actually worked due it being an optional Epilogue that acutally doesn't add anything as the main-game itself has an ending (a rather confusing one, but an ending non the less).

[ScottD.Betson]

well I think Mass Effect 3 did the same so did I think AC brotherhood and I also think there was one other one recently ohh yeah they also did that with Assassins Creed II

[ScottD.Betson]

Is the next video ross is going to release going to be another RGD? or will it be something totally different that will make SFM and SE2 seem like a thing of the past present and future?

[RandomGuy]

well I think Mass Effect 3 did the same so did I think AC brotherhood and I also think there was one other one recently ohh yeah they also did that with Assassins Creed II

Mass Effect 3 didn't do that. Its ending was total shit, so they released a DLC that retconned some stuff and made it partial shit. The ("Extended Cut") DLC was free. Unless you're talking about the Citadel DLC... I consider that to be the true ending to the game. But I'm pretty sure that's not what you were talking about.

 

I suspect this Game Dungeon is going to get a lot more views than most of the others. At least in relative terms.

Huh. Ross seems to have a few relatively high profile fans. This guy, Notch, the SF Debris guy...

 

Okay, now I'm wondering. Was that really Richard Dean Anderson?

I think it was really RDA

But like, is there any record anywhere of how that worked? Did the sixty-something film and television actor just turn up out of the blue like it was the most normal thing in the world, and no one said anything?

[BTGBullseye]

Mass Effect 3 didn't do that. Its ending was total shit

That is opinion. Some people thought the original ending was perfectly fine.

[Binky The Rabbit]

Well, this video wasn't exactly PG

 

I can now safely add 'can be killed' to the list of why I almost never play online games.

In fact, the general emphasis on online play these days is one reason why I play a lot of older games. Hell, I still use my PS2, which does multiplayer much better than the games I have in my Steam library.

 

My habit of not buying a game when it comes out makes DLC less of an issue, as I tend to be able to buy the game + DLC as a bundle. Micropayments, however, can fuck right off up the arsehole of whoever thought up the idea.

 

Also, Burnout > NFS. But that's just my opinion. I remember two mates of mine in school arguing over NFS and Juiced, and I was like "Pfft, Burnout every time".

 

It's just another case of money and profit getting in the way of art and creativity.

[BTGBullseye]

I can now safely add 'can be killed' to the list of why I almost never play online games.

In fact, the general emphasis on online play these days is one reason why I play a lot of older games.

I've had that for nearly a decade now.

[ScottD.Betson]

I really dont like when games are online only, I mean it can be fun if its with friends, but most of the time some games like Combat Arms, APB, Drift City, Battleforge, and NFS world, they sort of get tiresome to play after a while....but that doesnt mean they dont not become fun again...it just takes time

[Mrekalis]

Gamers (as a whole) are some of the most easily deceived consumers out there unfortunately, ranking a little better than illicit drug users. If they weren't, we wouldn't have encroachments of microtransactions on a full-priced game, literally selling a game ending as DLC, or killing games. I think any study will show the VAST majority of gamers do not WANT these anti-consumer practices, they're just tolerated because consumers are either ignorant, or are so interested in the unique entertainment that they buy them in SPITE of the practices. Again, someone else can probably state this better than I can, but I see these practices as setting the worst precedent imagineable for the art / entertainment world. It says that it's mandated to simply destroy culture by design, which I can't see as anything other than dystopian. Like you said, there's no legal ground to basis this one (except maybe predatory practices), but I'm simply unable to see this practice as acceptable. Venting with this video is about all I can do.

 

I agree mostly, actually. I don't know if I was clear in my original post but I certainly wasn't supporting the system in place. Or even criticising your video, actually, more the idea that there's some kind of easy legal solution to this whole thing. Not mentioned in the video, but its a sentiment I see way too much around the internet.

 

On the topic of gamers being easily decieved, I'd actually go as far to say that the entire foundation of "Gamers" as a culture is wasting excessive amounts of money. You can't really have a unified culture based around just a medium, so like with literature and film the "Gamer" culture caters mostly to snobs with money to burn. I shake my head at the people who spend upwards of $100 on a new edition of a common classic book the same way I shake my head at people who buy online-only games then act surprised when they get shut down. I don't even like to use the word Gamer anymore since it connects to so much idiotic baggage these days.

 

I think more discourse should be spent on why people are willing to support a culture like this, but I suppose that topic is rather complicated and goes way beyond the scope of game reviews. Though for what its worth I consider one of the main attractions of your videos to be your willingness to comment on issues most reviewers act like are unrelated to the topic. Given how much flak political stuff gets on the internet these days I imagine making some kind of politics-oriented series isn't very attractive anyway.