Feminism/Gender equality

[FoolOfWorms]

Hey, Del3030, Thanks. That help me understand that mess a lot and the detail put in is wonderful.

I would like to add the main reason why the gamergate thing was banned is that it started to clog up /v/ and video game discussion no longer was able to keep up compared to gamergate threads, which may have had 12 open threads at a time. It doubt was due to the political affiliation of the mods, more of the shitposting being done by the participants and the size of it. Things like this happened before, good examples being the creation of /mlp/, /vg/ and the banning of homestuck generals. It isn't important and I have little else to say on the matter, just kinda adding context. also don't expect 8chan to get anywhere, 4chan clones are absolutely everywhere and have all suffered from fatigue.

[ThePest179]

I have tried to avoid talking about GamerGate here as I felt that the topic had nothing to really do with much of Ross's work but as someone who is pro GamerGate I might be able to clear some things up.

 

Get out.

 

Seriously, GG is just a misogynist, MRA temper tantrum, that's all it is or ever was.

[Descriptor]

I have tried to avoid talking about GamerGate here as I felt that the topic had nothing to really do with much of Ross's work but as someone who is pro GamerGate I might be able to clear some things up.

 

Get out.

 

Seriously, GG is just a misogynist, MRA temper tantrum, that's all it is or ever was.

Source?

[FoolOfWorms]

I have tried to avoid talking about GamerGate here as I felt that the topic had nothing to really do with much of Ross's work but as someone who is pro GamerGate I might be able to clear some things up.

 

Get out.

 

Seriously, GG is just a misogynist, MRA temper tantrum, that's all it is or ever was.

 

If you'd like you can offer a counter argument and a different perspective on the subject.

Actually I would love to seen the opposite side, because I tend to feel bad if I don't see both sides of an argument.

This however just makes you sound mad and immature, so please, if you don't have anything to add don't just tell others to get out with a reason why.

Misogyny doesn't count either, because due to some people, it has gotten vague as to what that mean exactly, so please go into deep detail about why and add sources if possible.

This ain't your hugebox

Thanks.

[ThePest179]

http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

 

Here's a fairly good source, with a wealth of references. S

[Del3030]

I have tried to avoid talking about GamerGate here as I felt that the topic had nothing to really do with much of Ross's work but as someone who is pro GamerGate I might be able to clear some things up.

 

Get out.

 

Seriously, GG is just a misogynist, MRA temper tantrum, that's all it is or ever was.

 

No it wasn't. As someone who has been active in it since the beginning I can tell you it was always only ever about journalist ethics. However I am not surprised you would simply call me a misogynist and an MRA as that is a go too for anti GamerGate. Although I do wonder if you have ever researched it at all. You certainly have on replied to my first line.

 

http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

 

Here's a fairly good source, with a wealth of references. S

 

Now I haven't had a chance to look through and disprove most of what I am sure that article is saying and I wont for a about a week but if I had to guess I would assume it is full of mostly lies and I am sure someone else has gone through and ripped it apart. Now by all means I encourage everyone to read the above article and check it's sources as I am sure it gives the stance from the other side. The issue is that one of the websites that has been targeted by GamerGate is GawkerMedia and we have cost them millions in ad revenue. So it really comes down to a group of people accusing press websites of corruption and yellow journalism and the accused websites saying that their accusers just hate women.

 

Now I have a question for you ThePest179, why if it is true that we hate women and we are only doing this to harass women would we spend almost a year compiling evidence of journalist computation? Just to cover are tracks? Seems like to me it would be a lot easier to actively and openly hate on women. Hell my favorite part of this that we only 'attack' three women in the game industry. The pattern I see with this is that the women who we 'attack' (really we ignore them but I don't think I could prove that to you) is its only people who take on the extreme feminism banner. You never hear of GamerGate attacking Anna Kipnis, Corrinne Yu, and ect...

 

---

 

Anyway I think this is all I will say about GamerGate in this thread as the topic is about Feminism/Gender equality. While I do feel there is overlap I don't want to distract from the topic at hand. I don't really like talking about here much anyway as like I said I feel it has little to do with Ross's work so I am not one to push it. Although I imagine if someone makes a GamerGate thread I wont stay absent from that.

 

---

 

Moving on to the main topic at hand which is Feminism/Gender equality. I had a whole long post planed out but finding the sources for all of it was a fair amount of work. Well I still will grab the sources for claims made but only on request as it's far easier this way for me and I have a lot of work that would delay grabbing all of the sources anyway.

 

Now I have seen Feminism become quite the hate group full of the most vile people. I do hear people try and hide behind the fact that these people are no true Scotsman and while it is that you should never judge the actions of a group based on the actions of a few bad seeds feminism is overrun with them to the point I would argue it is a majority voice in the movement. This is more of an issue of feminism being an ideology and run much like how the church has run it'self. There are of course decent feminists like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ewU33EdNnM but they are often attacked by other feminists for being the wrong kind of feminists. Indeed she has been called an MRA and conservative of which she is neither. Truthfully there isn't anything wrong with the MRA movement yet but it really wouldn't take much for it to go down the same road as feminism. In the end I think it is far easier to fight for equal rights for all and avoid labels. I think I will end by linking to this video which can articulate my point far better then my hungover ass can.

 

CRzb8LVWDP8

[ThePest179]

However I am not surprised you would simply call me a misogynist and an MRA as that is a go too for anti GamerGate.

 

Yes, you're sexist. Here:

 

Now I have seen Feminism become quite the hate group full of the most vile people. I do hear people try and hide behind the fact that these people are no true Scotsman and while it is that you should never judge the actions of a group based on the actions of a few bad seeds feminism is overrun with them to the point I would argue it is a majority voice in the movement.

 

Truthfully there isn't anything wrong with the MRA movement yet

 

MRA movement is misogynistic to the core, feminism is not majority sexist.

[Del3030]

However I am not surprised you would simply call me a misogynist and an MRA as that is a go too for anti GamerGate.

 

Yes, you're sexist. Here:

 

Now I have seen Feminism become quite the hate group full of the most vile people. I do hear people try and hide behind the fact that these people are no true Scotsman and while it is that you should never judge the actions of a group based on the actions of a few bad seeds feminism is overrun with them to the point I would argue it is a majority voice in the movement.

 

Truthfully there isn't anything wrong with the MRA movement yet

 

MRA movement is misogynistic to the core, feminism is not majority sexist.

 

It seems you have no interest in having a civil debate and address any of my points. Instead choosing to simply call me names. This is often the reaction I get from feminists when questioning their dogma. Which might explain why the group as a whole has left a poor taste in my mouth. Unlike you I feel no need to condemn all of the members of the MRA. While I may not agree with them myself I still see that they are trying to fix gender issues in their own way and not as you would put it out of misogyny. Just like I think that not all feminist hate men I don't think that all MRA hate women.

 

Still it is clear we are at an impasse as you don't seem to want to have a discussion on the topic. Truthfully I don't feel I really have much more to say on the topic or at least not more then I already have. Certainly I feel any continued discussion on my end will just devolve into forum drama which I hope to avoid at all cost. So I will see myself out of this topic.

 

Thank you for your time and I am sorry we couldn't find some common ground.

[Descriptor]

However I am not surprised you would simply call me a misogynist and an MRA as that is a go too for anti GamerGate.

 

Yes, you're sexist. Here:

 

Now I have seen Feminism become quite the hate group full of the most vile people. I do hear people try and hide behind the fact that these people are no true Scotsman and while it is that you should never judge the actions of a group based on the actions of a few bad seeds feminism is overrun with them to the point I would argue it is a majority voice in the movement.

 

Truthfully there isn't anything wrong with the MRA movement yet

 

MRA movement is misogynistic to the core, feminism is not majority sexist.

Classic "us or them" mentality.

Somebody can disagree with certain aspects of modern feminism without hating women.

Especially stuff like the witch-hunting mob justice and moral guardianism that's becoming disturbingly more common as of late.

Just because someone criticisms the extremists of a group doesn't mean that they reject the core concept. If anything, they may just be concerned that the group is heading down the wrong path. It's like saying that someone who hates the West-borough Baptist Church correspondingly hates all of Christianity.

And as for the MRA thing, sure, a lot of them can be legitimately sexist, but again, not all.

Both groups (feminists and MRA alike) are really suffering from the same problem. Extremists acting as the loudest megaphones of each group, causing it to seem like that's all there is. And because of that, it just breeds "us vs. them" like crazy, because if you're in one group, from your perspective, the other group looks absolutely crazy, since most of what you hear from them is from the crazies. It's where the term echo-chamber comes from, and it's become a major problem among internet discussions.

Looking at your responses, you are being highly accusatory, making sweeping assumptions of someone's character based only on group, rather than individual behaviors. Don't let yourself fall into the same echo-chamber trap, as all it does it shut down legitimate discussion.

[Collective Foal]

Men's Rights Activism is inherently sexist. It doesn't take a college degree to realize that men have pretty damn good control of this world and women are ousted and made insignificant by a sexist society. Examples of this are the acts of slut-shaming, where women who dress a certain way or engage in casual sex are put to shame for being sluts, whereas men who engage in casual sex are "just being men."

 

Men who catcall and sexually harass females get off the hook on a consistent basis.

 

I mean hell, this happened in CANADA, one of the most progressive countries on the planet:

jL-gzUCoWto

 

And this happened in the US:

e9Tj63pQai8

 

Like seriously, you can't deny that women aren't being dealt the fairest hand in a world where it's okay to kill girls because they were born female (China) or because they want an education (Middle East).

 

And yet the MRA movement wants MORE?! LIKE ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

How could you possibly concern yourself with how you're being treated for having Barbies when women are gangraped and made to feel ashamed of it?!

 

The MRA movement is misogynistic and sexist and a massive slew of various other disgusting adjectives, because it is rooted in the idea of giving more to the people who already have the most.

 

And by the way, misandry isn't a fucking thing. All gender roles and expectations made for men are based in the assumption that women are inferior so it is BAD to act like a woman. It's okay for women to do "man things" though because they're trying to act like men, who are superior.

[Binky The Rabbit]

There's not much I can really add here that I didn't say in my first post.

 

One thought process that likely causes a problem is "What does it mean to be a woman?" and likewise "What does it means to be a man?" What makes male and female different? How distinct should the genders be from one another? In the pursuit of equality, what characteristics should be retained as 'gender-specific'?

 

I may go into further depth later (as I need to head into town right now), but this is something I've thought about a lot. And throughout recent human history, a difference between two people can form the basis of stereotyping, which then grows into prejudice. As I said previously, it's our attitudes that need to change. And I fear, given the track record, if that's at all possible for something as universal and fundamental as Gender.

[Blightmare]

http://lady-miss-andry.tumblr.com/

 

This person, among others, is some good proof that misandry is an actual thing. The most common one I've seen, at least in the past since I haven't seen it lately(thanks to clever word blacklisting) is the "kill all men" crowd. Misogyny and misandry aren't exclusively linked to gender role expectation but also encompass more basic and primal attitudes such as just plain hatred for the opposite sex. (most just call it straight up sexism) Both are very real but they take their own form.

 

I wouldn't necessarily call MRA's 'inherently sexist' either as both men and women experience their own unique problems but I will say they really aren't needed. The issues men face pale in comparison to a lot of the treatment women get. It's like breaking your toe after stubbing it and worrying more about the condition of what you stubbed it on.

 

Not to completely dismiss the one's who're actually sexist. There's no excuse for that behavior, and there's plenty of them to go around.

[BidetoftheDead]

While I think misandry is a thing I don't believe it's as wide scaled as misogyny for it to deserve "activists" and while not all MRAs may be sexist the vocals one really are.

 

I spend a lot of time on twitter, one of the hubs of feminists vs MRAs and a lot of the people I follow are commonly making fun of MRAs or retweeting stuff like what a MRA named Peter Nolan recently said about how MRAs need to "Start killing women who speak out against men" as if he wants a gender war to happen. His views became so extreme that Ireland barred him from entering the country and Australia is considering it.

 

I think a major problem is is misinformation is a common thing on the internet, there are probably people who don't understand what is going on or may actually buy into the idea that feminists are trying to take away male rights, which is stupid, so these groups with vocal sexists become popular and people who are uninformed and don't know where to go for accurate information start to actually believe it and get roped in with the group.

[A Satanic Panda]

Men's Rights Activism is inherently sexist.

 

There are real world problems that affect men more than women, rooted solely based on their sex. Issues like prison rape. Why don't they deserve activism?

 

It doesn't take a college degree to realize that men have pretty damn good control of this world..

 

A very small fraction of people, of mostly men, control the world. Source 1 Source 2

 

..and women are ousted and made insignificant by a sexist society. Examples of this are the acts of slut-shaming, where women who dress a certain way or engage in casual sex are put to shame for being sluts, whereas men who engage in casual sex are "just being men."

 

These kinds of judgments are passed both ways. It is not universally men slut-shaming women. It depends on someone's cultural background and personal beliefs of sex and gender.

 

I mean hell, this happened in CANADA, one of the most progressive countries on the planet:

 

And this happened in the US:

 

This is called cherry picking. This is tragic, but tragedies like these are not exclusive to women.

 

How could you possibly concern yourself with how you're being treated for having Barbies when women are gangraped and made to feel ashamed of it?!

 

Depression, shame, and blaming themselves are almost universal feelings of rape victims, in both women and men. Source 1 Source 2

[ThePest179]

Issues like prison rape. Why don't they deserve activism?

 

It's because prisoners are regularly dehumanized in the United States (although that is getting less and less common by the day).

 

This is called cherry picking. This is tragic, but tragedies like these are not exclusive to women.

 

Actually, it's called anecdotal evidence. I do however agree with CF, that these things happen to women a disturbingly large amount of the time.

 

Anyway, there's been yet another school shooting in the United States, and the killer had been motivated by misogyny. Just putting that out there as food for thought.

[BTGBullseye]

and the killer had been motivated by misogyny.

Or so it was reported... There's no actual proof of it.

[Alyxx Thorne]

I think people should be judged by who they are, not their gender. I don't see myself as a feminist personally, I think no matter what gender you are you should be proud of who you are.

[Vapymid]

I don't give a flying f**k about feminists. I lived long enough to realise they have 0 impact on my life. If some disturbed female wants all men to be killed and the possession of a penis to be made a capital offense - let her. It's her loss and she has as many chances of achieving what she wants as a suicide bomber has of screwing 70 virgins after he has been blown to smithereens.

 

There will always be nutcases in this world and they will always remain the inconsequential miserable twats they are... No need to waste my adrenaline on fearing something that has a lower chance of affecting me than a possibility of a giant meteorite falling on my head.

 

Regards

[Binky The Rabbit]

and the killer had been motivated by misogyny.

Or so it was reported... There's no actual proof of it.

 

I came across this. https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/#22785729

 

I have doubts whether misogyny had anything to do with it tbh. Looks like the anons posting were flaring up the stereotype of a 'beta male' to mock the OP.

 

I have half a mind to post something in the gun control thread, but I can't be bothered if I'm honest. Not that my argument would be defeated (it was). I'm not shocked or even surprised anymore.

 

--------

 

I'm a big feminist, but my enthusiasm for the movement has been getting pretty worn down recently. Feminism is not an excuse to act like a c[an opener]. Especially online, the amount of bollocks being said in the name of feminism has pretty much tarred over the actual aims of the movement and given it an undeserved new definition.

 

But I guess it's the same with guns: There's always going to be a group of cockheads who ruin it for every decent person by failing to behave intelligently or rationally.

[Vapymid]

I'm fairly feminist myself from the philosophical point view. The idea of equal rights is so obvious and natural for me that I really can't understand the objectors. But philosophy and political "movements" based on that philosophy are usually totally unrelated. The latter usually take the shape of the former and fill it with contents which have very little in common with the original idea...

 

Regards