Feminism/Gender equality

[Reverend_UshankaCat_]

It turned into a big discussion in the "Vent" and I think its an interesting subject.

-What are your opinions on Feminism?

-When does someone turn into a "Feminazi"?

-What are some examples of what you think is sexism?

-Most importantly, how can gender equality be achieved?

 

(I'm almost afraid of having an opinion since people seem to get really passionate about this and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.)

I personally think the media is very responsible for sexism. Women are on average be weaker than men, I don't doubt that, but the way some films/shows/games/books present them is just ridiculous, although it is often very subtle. A good example is the movie "Jurassic World". I went to see it two days ago and I can really recommend it, but I remember one scene in which the female protagonist (played by Bryce Howard) saves the male protagonist (played by Chris Pratt). Pratt is getting pummeled by a small bird-dinosaur-thingy and Howard shoots it off him. That alone would be okay, but my two main problems with the scene are:

1. When Howard shoots the dinosaur with that tranquilizer-rifle, she shoots it about 5 or 6 times, despite it being knocked out already.

2. After that, she breathes in deeply and looks even more scared and confused than before.

Of course that would be realistic behaviour for any person who just shot something, but when you put this realistic behaviour next to the unrealisticly badass Pratt instead of showing that even a woman is capable of "badassing-up" in such a situation, it creates a contrast that makes the woman look even weaker than before.

Another thing that gets mentioned often is that protagonists of... anything, are always overly attractive and pretty. Some people forget that its not just women who get exposed to unrealistic ideals though. Again, look at Jurassic World: Of course we have Bryce Howard, who is a main character because she is attractive and beautiful, and we also have Chris Patt, who is a protagonist because he is muscular and manly. Then we also have the two nerdy supervisors, played by Jake Johnson and Lauren Lapkus, who are both not as overly attractive and therefore are reduced to rather minor roles and comedic relief, even though the look, you know, like normal everyday people.

This creates the illusion that you need to have the body of a topmodel to be successful, since otherwise you will just be comedic relief for the rest of your life, and that is sexist towards women and men.

So that's my opinion of feminism: Bryce Howard and Chris Pratt are unrealistically attractive

[rairii]

Good cause, bad people. The reason so many people don't want to associate themselves with the term "feminist" nowadays is because the more recent batch of people taking up that label seem to think acting against the movement as a whole helps their cause. If these kind of people want men and women to be treated equally, I'm all for men and women alike coming along and treating these annoying fucks the way they treat men.

 

And that example from Jurassic World isn't really sexism, I watched the scene and thought nothing of it (though my sister thought it was hilarious how she needed 5 shots to kill the damn thing). Realistically, a common man would've done the exact same thing in that situation and the female protagonist IS a pretty common woman. Chris Pratt's character is just an all-around badass, as expected from Chris Pratt. If anything, It's a breath of fresh air seeing a woman in a successful business/science career since women seem to be a minority in pursuing those kinds of things.

[Binky The Rabbit]

My big 12oz beef steak on the Vent thread was the generalisation of Feminism being a 'fucking joke' and the claim that women are 'no longer oppressed'.

 

Now granted, there is a segment of so-called 'feminists' that disgrace the cause (my common example is the lass who aborted her 6-month fetus because it was a boy) and are deserving of the term 'feminazi'. But generally speaking it's a very benign and very important movement. It's called 'feminism' because it started as a cause to give women the same rights as men. And in the western world, that's by and large been achieved, save for a bunch of sociological issues that need ironing out.

 

But it's the Eastern world that needs the help of feminism. In countries such as India (the world's fasting growing democracy my arse), women are perceived as fair game for rape if they're out at night without a man to protect them. Islamic fundamentalism turns women into literal objects for trading and such like. Sex trafficking. Domestic abuse. Slut shaming. Revenge porn. Divina McCall recently said that women need to keep their man 'satisfied' or they'll go elsewhere. The very existence of ReturnOfKings.net.

 

It's these issues and ideologies of women being a secondary, subservient class of human that makes feminism a necessary, global cause today.

 

And yes, feminism has a tarnished reputation because of the overzealous nutcases, but then again, so do the three Abrahamic religions, so does the SNP, so do gun-owners, so does the internet. I wouldn't mind a renaming for the modern times, perhaps the United Equality Movement, if it'll take the feminazis out of the equation.

 

As for the achievement of equality: absolute equality is nigh-on impossible, unless we turn humanity into a single-sex species. But gaining the next best thing is simply a matter of changing our attitudes. If we change our attitudes, our actions will change. It'll be a domino-effect that would cause a huge social upheaval that would cause everyone/everything that isn't a white heretosexual male to have the same worth as said male.

 

Call me raving revolutionary lunatic, but this is the one thing I want to witness in my lifetime. And I think it's perfectly achievable. But it will be met by the fiercest opposition that will betray everyone's inner prejudices, that will fight tooth and nail to keep the old mentalities alive.

[BTGBullseye]

a white heretosexual male to have the same worth as said male.

So less worth for almost everyone else in the USA, (currently being a white male means that you will not get a high paying job anywhere, if you don't already have one) stay the exact same in most of the European countries, lose most value in the middle east and asia, and gain a small amount of worth in the top 1% of earners world wide.

 

Discrimination is very common against the white male, simply because of the quotas to hire the minorities. (these quotas are so that companies can get massive amounts of government money for free, at least in the USA) Females and minorities in the USA are given better initial pay offerings and benefits to entice them, and it all revolves around getting paid by the government to not hire white men. (a white man and a black man apply for the same job, the white man is perfectly qualified and experienced for the position and the black man has no qualifications or experience at all, the company will hire the black man, same goes for any woman)

 

The problem isn't that minorities are underrepresented, it's that everyone overreacts when they hear about any form of 'discrimination' when it involves a minority. Hire based on qualifications, not based on gender or skin color. (and quit hiring H1-B visas for $30k/yr for jobs that should pay $150+k/yr)

[Binky The Rabbit]

Females and minorities in the USA are given better initial pay offerings and benefits to entice them, and it all revolves around getting paid by the government to not hire white men.

 

Which is still a more passive-aggressive form of sexism - increasing female employment solely to produce certain statistics and figures. They do it to make themselves look good - if there wasn't a drive for diversity, they most likely wouldn't bother. It's discriminatory because it's being done for the wrong reasons, which you make clear with:

Hire based on qualifications, not based on gender or skin color.

I support this statement fully. It's a case of 'be judged for what you do, not for who you are', something which is currently completely ignored by the British Government. It is a crucial part of the change in social attitude that I refer to.

[Jeb_CC]

I'm always disgusted by the feminists that feel like women should be "overpowered" than equal. I've been horrified by the things some feminists say. "I don't want to breastfeed my baby boy."

"I don't want to work with males."

People have been pressured to think that the male population is a bunch of rapists. :/ I don't actually think this part of the world needs feminism. This includes USA, Canada, Australia. We don't need that movement. We're a civilised culture (as much as we can be) that supports human rights. We're fighting for freedom and the more popular issue, gay rights. But... For the other countries that are in dire help, THEY need feminism.

 

Another point, physical appearance and abilities. Of course men are normally stronger and faster than females, yet my friend believes that the Olympics should be races of both female and males. Nope.nope.nope. Do you want an unfair game? Cause that's how you get an unfair game. Not saying women can't be better than males, but males are just overly naturally better.

 

On a religious level, females are meant to be the companions of males. Not slaves. Not minions. Companions. A loving partner to cherish and keep safe. A lot of feminists misinterpret this and respond with: "I belong to NO man. I'm an independent woman."

I think they're all big jokes. X3

 

That Jurassic World movie, I didn't really see any sexism at all. I thought she was quite badass taking care of that dino, the breathing to represent strength and physical movement, an accomplishment almost. And I don't think she's attractive. X3 I guess "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" fits here somewhere. I mean seriously, that hair does not look good on you, girl. XD I'm joking.

[Binky The Rabbit]

A lot of feminists misinterpret this and respond with: "I belong to NO man. I'm an independent woman."

Aye, it's perfectly possible to be an independent woman and still have a loving male companion. Those who think otherwise have had a bad experience with men, or have been radicalised by anti-men propaganda.

Currently trying to remember the musician who was murdered by a man-hating woman in the...70s?

But... For the other countries that are in dire help, THEY need feminism.

That's a giant thumbs up from me.

[rairii]

On a religious level, females are meant to be the companions of males. Not slaves. Not minions. Companions. A loving partner to cherish and keep safe. A lot of feminists misinterpret this and respond with: "I belong to NO man. I'm an independent woman."

I think they're all big jokes. X3

 

I always thought that biblically, women were PROPERTY of the man and were there for housework and procreation. Then again you're probably more qualified than I am to talk about that matter, since I'm not religious myself. Either way, the whole "independent woman" thing isn't really "I belong to NO man" so much as "I don't NEED no man".

[Jeb_CC]

Well, religion was WAY more stricter two thousand years ago. XD We still follow some weird rules, but we've 'tuned' them to the modern way of thinking. For equality, now women aren't seen as 'property' but as 'companions'. X3 Cause us humans are better than that.

 

Genesis Chapter 2:

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

 

23 The man said,

 

“This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called ‘woman,’

for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

 

 

I mean, of course no body NEEDS a man. No body NEEDS anyone. It just really helps to have one. XD Can't pay all those taxes by yourself. Gotta make it fair. But some girls are just shooting themselves in the foot for saying stuff like that. X3 I haven't really met a guy who's been attracted to the radical feminists. So... the radical feminists are either doing a GREAT job or a really poor job. XD I don't know what they want anymore really.

[Binky The Rabbit]

Interesting read: http://www.viralthread.com/wife-realises-shes-been-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time/

[BTGBullseye]

I always thought that biblically, women were PROPERTY of the man and were there for housework and procreation.

Actually, only a very few religions believe that. (all are non-Christian)

[FoolOfWorms]

Now, I'm going to link a video, and I want you to watch through all of it, whether or not you agree on it. Don't stop, even if you see something stupid

 

PuNIwYsz7PI

 

You done? I don't think so...

 

 

 

Ok, you should be done by now. Can someone tell me why people hate Anita with such a burning passion? I understand she is a liar and a bitch by some peoples account, but even at the mere mention of her, more than 1/3rd of the like bar goes grey, even if the topic itself is somewhat unrelated to anything she said in the video itself. the main story is about revenge porn, something atrocious, and I think most people would say its bad. but 98% of the comment section isn't about that, they're about Anita and the brief picture of her. In fact, what the fuck is a gamergate anyways? call be naive, but I try not to poison my mind with this shit, but now my curiosity is peaked.

sidenote, what is your consensus on revenge porn? I think most sites should ban it, but I don't know how I feel on the government lurking over it

[Binky The Rabbit]

The video's not available in Blighty, but I get the just of your points in the subsequent text.

 

To be honest, I really don't understand GamerGate. Zoe Quinn released a game, certain people didn't like it, her ex boyfriend posted deets about their relationship, there was bias allegations on Kotaku, and everything after that is just a haze of stuff I can't be bothered reading up on. I think the Internet Hate Machine simply got caught out in its Hatin' for Hate's sake. Nothing can be done about it - there's always a section of the Internet that hates you with every inch of their being.

 

As for revenge porn, it's pretty awful, isn't it? It's part of the attitude I mentioned earlier that needs to change. If we assume that the majority of it is a man acting out of spite because of a failed relationship, then that man needs to learn how to act like a decent human being. There is no honour or dignity in breaching that kind of trust, and if she had broken trust first, then it is still not the appropriate reaction. There is absolutely no consideration of the consequences.

 

EDIT: missed 'no' in 'absolutely no consideration'. *facepalm*

Edited June 23, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

To be honest, I really don't understand GamerGate. Zoe Quinn released a game, certain people didn't like it, her ex boyfriend posted deets about their relationship, there was bias allegations on Kotaku, and everything after that is just a haze of stuff I can't be bothered reading up on. I think the Internet Hate Machine simply got caught out in its Hatin' for Hate's sake. Nothing can be done about it - there's always a section of the Internet that hates you with every inch of their being.

That about covers it.

 

If we assume that the majority of it is a man acting out of spite because of a failed relationship

Except that it is entirely possible that just as much of it is generated by females as by males, some has been for successful relationships to try and break it up, and assuming is usually very bad.

[Binky The Rabbit]

..generated by females as by males, some has been for successful relationships to try and break it up, and assuming is usually very bad.

 

Oh yeah, I was using is as a stereotypical example of why it might happen. Probably should have made that more clear.

 

Also noticed I missed a crucial word in my last sentence. I have a tendancy to miss things like 'don't' and 'not' and such.

[ThePest179]

Discrimination is very common against the white male, simply because of the quotas to hire the minorities. (these quotas are so that companies can get massive amounts of government money for free, at least in the USA) Females and minorities in the USA are given better initial pay offerings and benefits to entice them, and it all revolves around getting paid by the government to not hire white men. (a white man and a black man apply for the same job, the white man is perfectly qualified and experienced for the position and the black man has no qualifications or experience at all, the company will hire the black man, same goes for any woman)

 

I always thought that biblically, women were PROPERTY of the man and were there for housework and procreation.

Actually, only a very few religions believe that. (all are non-Christian)

 

Quite frankly these are bigoted comments with little credible evidence to back it up. I cannot believe, with my own two eyes, that this could be allowed on the site, of all the places on the 'Net.

 

To be honest, I really don't understand GamerGate. Zoe Quinn released a game, certain people didn't like it, her ex boyfriend posted deets about their relationship, there was bias allegations on Kotaku, and everything after that is just a haze of stuff I can't be bothered reading up on.

 

Then I'll be happy to fill in the blanks: the MRA and masculinists jumped on this like wolves smelling blood and directed some truly despicable and copious amounts of hate towards both Anita and women and general (up to and including death threats against women in the video game industry and Anita). They have since tried covering up their actions by repeating the lie "it's about ethics in gaming journalism!".

 

To sum it up, "Gamergate" is a misogynist shitshow.

[BTGBullseye]

Quite frankly these are bigoted comments with little credible evidence to back it up. I cannot believe, with my own two eyes, that this could be allowed on the site, of all the places on the 'Net.

Mind doing something other than simply voicing your hate for my life experiences?

 

Then I'll be happy to fill in the blanks: the MRA and masculinists jumped on this like wolves smelling blood and directed some truly despicable and copious amounts of hate towards both Anita and women and general (up to and including death threats against women in the video game industry and Anita). They have since tried covering up their actions by repeating the lie "it's about ethics in gaming journalism!".

 

To sum it up, "Gamergate" is a misogynist shitshow.

Accurate, if you only consider the gaming media coverage.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[ThePest179]

Mind doing something other than simply voicing your hate for my life experiences?

 

Why yes. These quotas you refer to do not exist in the United States in any form. The system which you describe is in place in India.

And while you may have unfortunately gotten the shit end of the stick thanks to discrimination against you, your case is the exception, not the rule.

[BTGBullseye]

Do you have any documentation to support your position? I do...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_quota

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/25/supreme-court-thomas-race/70440912/

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/21852/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/9/high-court-to-again-consider-racial-quotas/?page=all

http://prospect.org/article/americas-long-experiment-racial-quotas

 

And there are MANY more... Most of the top results are for education, but that isn't where it ends.

[ThePest179]

Do you have any documentation to support your position? I do...

 

Only one, ONE of your sources rules in your favor, and yes, I read them all. The last source actually disproves your statement, arguing for further affirmative action.