Fallout 4

[Alyxx Thorne]

I still haven't actually completed the main story...

 

 

I was trying to go primarily the Railroad route, but it somehow automatically gave me a quest to destroy the Railroad for the Brotherhood without giving me a way out of it. I started a new playthrough because of it.

 

Yeah, all of the main factions are basically at war and want to wipe out each other and if you follow a faction long enough they WILL ask you to do so. So pick a side you agree with.

 

 

And you should get on with completing the main story...

[BTGBullseye]

Well, I also installed a couple new mods at that time, and they needed a fresh game to work... Essentially two different things were telling me to start over, so I listened.

[Meelis13]

installing it right now. So.. coming from 3 and NV, what should i expect? Also, any good mods out yet?

[Descriptor]

installing it right now. So.. coming from 3 and NV, what should i expect? Also, any good mods out yet?

Well, it really depends on what you liked about those games.

Personally, I would say that it's a solid and measurable step beyond 3, but kinda a side step from NV.

For the good: The combat is fantastic, the exploration and world design is fantastic, the companions are all pretty memorable, and the story seems to be a good step above the story in 3, at least as far as I am aware thus far (having not finished it yet). Not sure if it's as cohesive as NV's though (if you can consider that game as having a story, technically). The story involves 4 factions that are all pretty evenly balanced in terms of good/evil, and provide a lot of interesting hard choices, from what I've heard. From what I can tell, the different factions are even more balanced than in NV, since the Legion leaned far too evil in that game. There's a faction here that definitely also leans that direction, but I would consider them far more amicable in comparison. Overall, the story has so far struck me as fairly engaging, and I am interested in seeing where it leads (which is far more than what I could say for Skyrim).

For the bad: The new dialogue system is pretty universally reviled, or at least, tolerated at best. In turn, a lot of conversational depth has been lost. You won't get the huge walls of text in NV, but it's even limited when compared to 3. To be fair, it's not like they skimped on dialogue. It's been said that there is 111k lines of recorded dialogue, surpassing both 3 and NV combined. But the actual conversations are more shallow. Additionally, all speech checks are purely Charisma based, and are percentage chance. While this does at least make Charisma finally a useful stat, a lot of folks miss the other stats also influencing dialogue. There's also complaints of the dialogue options being vaguely worded and kinda limited (Often amounting to Yes, No, Sarcastic, or Question). Furthermore, some folks don't like the voiced protagonist, as they feel it takes away from role playing. The acting is not too bad for the most part, but people tend to not like those sorts of changes. Also, the skill system from 3 and NV is gone, and is replaced by a tiered perk system, similar to Far Cry, from what I hear. It's not entirely a step backwards, though, and I find that it works well and actually makes every SPECIAL stat worthwhile for once. However, some people do miss the more traditional skill system. Another common complaint is that the side quests are kinda limited, and often amount to, as the phrase goes, "Kill. Loot. Return." (a line from the game that you come across). The side quests that are there are pretty cool, but a lot definitely find it wanting. Also, there are a series of radiant quests related to settlements that drive people kinda crazy since you often get them assigned automatically, and they are generally timed missions, meaning that you can fail them and have bad stuff happen. Hopefully that will be patched at some point, though, since it's a little ridiculous. Also, settlements are kinda a love it or hate it sorta thing. They can be a little frustrating to built, especially because you often can't remove crappy old buildings or shrubbery and stuff (and you can't really build around them well either), and object placement is just kinda a pain sometimes. However, if you like that sorta thing, they almost completely change the game dynamic, and makes scavenging a ton of fun.

 

Overall, I really enjoy it, and do consider it a jump forward on Bethesda's part in relation to 3, and definitely an improvement over the direction they were going with Skyrim (at least in my mind). Or as some consider it, two steps forward, one step back. But still definitely a lot of fun and definitely a worthy title in the franchise, I would say.

[Meelis13]

i do like it, but i feel like i have to jump to NV at times to get some more complexity where it actually matters.

Chat- while indeed more shallow- can be fixed with a mod that turns it more NV/3 styled. I do like voice acting and voiced protagonist, as well as looks of game as well as feel.

But 2 big no-nos why im not too fond of this game (at least yet. cant refund, 3rd party seller and even if i could, past 2 hours mark)- crafting is love, crafting is life. To be fair, i cant really complain too much about it, as i knew its huge deal here, but i didnt realise that in order to get even a little variety other than exploring is to craft. Also, town managment is bloody nuts. Let me be clear- i generally dislike crafting. There are only few games where i geniuenly enjoy crafting and Fallout 4- its not one of those games. Workshop and such crafting menus are comfortable enough to be tolerable, however town ones.. Its 2015 for crying out loud and you still cant make decent crafting? First off, no tutorial (ok, that can be good thing there isnt intrusive tutorial, but game could at least as for something such as this- while in 3 and NV you had tutorials even when you wanted to take a *khm*), then do you really have to walk to place the objects (serious question)? If so, it is bollocks. And of course your mentioned "no-delete" policy. And again, you have to craft everything if you want some variety to weapons- plus you need to figure out from what items you get something from- can be quite pain, though i do approve of something being that complicated in modern triple-A gaming landscape, i do find there should be option to just let it be normal for people who either want casual play or dont have time (such as myself) to mess around.

As settlements themselves- really, i have to babysit everyone and everything? Am i really only person with any brains in the whole game? I understand this is the case for many games, but not many are so obvious. I do enjoy managing, if it can be done relatively comfortably, but seriously. It is a pain.. Im currently asking- is this a fallout or sim-build-me-a-town?

Then combat- leaving variety aside (i.e it feels less base weapons than in NV or 3), combat is good in terms of having enemies actually feel as threat and act like they would in combat (f.e able to lose a limb and fight on), but weapon aiming- i can safely say it felt better in NV. It is a mess in 4- its all shiny and nice, but sights still are same clunky (less accurate too), VATS has improved, but even using shotguns at close range (i.e feral ghoul is meleeing me), i still feel like character is using some weapon that has length of a sniper rifle, weight of a bazooka and... damage of a squirt gun (w.o critical damage). Granted- it felt squirt-gunny in earlier games too, plus guns can do critical hits against unarmoured opponents rather easily (so it is interesting, less of a grind), but seriously, if im having feral ghoul 2m in front of me and i shoot it, i expect it to be dead as good unarmoured target should be (which dont happen w.o critical hit). So yeah, while combat has improved in some ways, its also in standstill or step back in some ways.

Overall, im still very early in this game, but damn, first impressions havent been too grand, because while there is definitely huge potential in this game, i feel its in lot of ways unfulfilled. I do wait for more mods to appear, though as i hope mods will fix most of my gripes (and hey, might even get something real nice as well). But main thing- let someone else build settlements. Seriously- building them might be fun for some, but for me, it takes away the joy of discovery.

[BTGBullseye]

There are a ton of mods dealing with much of the stuff you're complaining about... viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8000

[Meelis13]

There are a ton of mods dealing with much of the stuff you're complaining about... viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8000

dude, you are lifesaver here. How i missed that topic?

[BTGBullseye]

[assortedsoup]

This may be an unpopular opinion, I'm not sure, but I liked Fallout 3 a lot more than I like Fallout 4. I was personally more invested in 3's main story and I feel like the established towns had so much more life and vitality than they do in 4.

 

That said, I still think 4 is great. I still enjoyed all the hours I put into it and I don't regret buying it at all. I just think it's... lacking, somehow. Like it needs more. But that's what DLC is for. :3

[Seattleite]

The lack of a GECK is making me increasingly frustrated.

[Descriptor]

This may be an unpopular opinion, I'm not sure, but I liked Fallout 3 a lot more than I like Fallout 4. I was personally more invested in 3's main story and I feel like the established towns had so much more life and vitality than they do in 4.

 

That said, I still think 4 is great. I still enjoyed all the hours I put into it and I don't regret buying it at all. I just think it's... lacking, somehow. Like it needs more. But that's what DLC is for. :3

I think the biggest problem is that the bigger settlements (Diamond City and Good-neighbor) didn't have any long-form quests to keep you coming back, like the Wasteland Survival Guide. Because honestly, thinking back to it, Rivet City (which didn't really have as big of a quest-line with it) didn't have much impact on me either, at the end of the day. Megaton was the most visited city for me by far.

 

Personally, while the big towns fell a bit flat, the world as a whole felt a bit more alive to me. More dynamic, such as how different raider groups reference each other, as well as reference when you take them down. Plus, the settlements system helped a lot for me, although I do admit that the settlers could use a lot of work. Basically, something to make the different settlers more interesting, like a better range of personalities.

Honestly, what I would love is if there was a chance that a new settler would be a wholly unique character, maybe even with a quest attached to them, or a unique ability or building. The rare tier 4 settlers you find kinda fit this role, but it could have been a bit broader. Something to make each settlement come more alive.

I really do have to wonder if the DLC will amp the settlements up a bit into a fuller experience.

[Selfsurprise]

The lack of a GECK is making me increasingly frustrated.

That's really disappointing. I think Fallout 3 and FNV owed a great deal of its continuing popularity to the modding community supporting it. You would think Bethesda would want to make things easier for that fanbase.

[BTGBullseye]

The lack of a GECK is making me increasingly frustrated.

That's really disappointing. I think Fallout 3 and FNV owed a great deal of its continuing popularity to the modding community supporting it. You would think Bethesda would want to make things easier for that fanbase.

They are going to release it, it just hasn't happened yet because they're trying to make it stable for more than just themselves.

 

Even though the GECK isn't out yet, there are thousands of mods for the game, some are very extensive, some are the extensive NSFW mods from previous Bethesda games.

[Selfsurprise]

The lack of a GECK is making me increasingly frustrated.

That's really disappointing. I think Fallout 3 and FNV owed a great deal of its continuing popularity to the modding community supporting it. You would think Bethesda would want to make things easier for that fanbase.

They are going to release it, it just hasn't happened yet because they're trying to make it stable for more than just themselves.

 

Even though the GECK isn't out yet, there are thousands of mods for the game, some are very extensive, some are the extensive NSFW mods from previous Bethesda games.

 

Ooh! :3

 

But in seriousness, thanks for allaying my fears BTG. For a moment I thought Bethesda were planning a dick move.

[BTGBullseye]

Nah, they aren't dicks over there... A lot of people seem to think so because of some of the bugs that happen in their games, but they're really just cool people.

[Mathadar]

Nah, they aren't dicks over there... A lot of people seem to think so because of some of the bugs that happen in their games, but they're really just cool people.

Indeed. If you make a more complicated world, with a LOT of NPC's voices, quests etc. You get more bugs, and even with play-testing, you can't catch em all, due to the diversity of operating systems, video cards, 3rd party programs, validation errors, and of course... any patch can create even more instability, even if it fixes one issue, it might create many more.

 

Edit: This all means the actual G.E.C.K. needs to address these, and be at least stable enough for reliable use, and give you a good U.I. for editing values, putting others in, etc.

[Descriptor]

Nah, they aren't dicks over there... A lot of people seem to think so because of some of the bugs that happen in their games, but they're really just cool people.

Yeah, it kinda irritates me how just kinda hostile people get with their complaints.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard the exact phrase "Everyone knows that Bethesda has s***y writers" (censorship mine, because I'm odd like that), often before bringing up how they wish Obsidian had made it. Like clockwork. Especially with people complaining about the story (which honestly, I don't get. The story here seems pretty dang cool, actually. Is there something I've missed?).

Ironically, New Vegas writer Chris Avellone has even said he likes the direction the games have been going (as seen in this stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEaDbKIy3VI), which is kinda hilarious to me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are flaws. But the level of vitrol is just stupidly over the top from folks, with people trying to declare it the worst game of the year or the death of the series. It's insane. But I guess, sadly all too common with fanbases these days.

[Selfsurprise]

Nah, they aren't dicks over there... A lot of people seem to think so because of some of the bugs that happen in their games, but they're really just cool people.

Yeah, it kinda irritates me how just kinda hostile people get with their complaints.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard the exact phrase "Everyone knows that Bethesda has s***y writers" (censorship mine, because I'm odd like that), often before bringing up how they wish Obsidian had made it. Like clockwork. Especially with people complaining about the story (which honestly, I don't get. The story here seems pretty dang cool, actually. Is there something I've missed?).

Ironically, New Vegas writer Chris Avellone has even said he likes the direction the games have been going (as seen in this stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEaDbKIy3VI), which is kinda hilarious to me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are flaws. But the level of vitrol is just stupidly over the top from folks, with people trying to declare it the worst game of the year or the death of the series. It's insane. But I guess, sadly all too common with fanbases these days.

If Fallout 4 has a poor plot, I must of been playing some exceptionally shitty games before getting it The story might not be earth-shatteringly original and isn't going to bring about a cultural paradigm shift in the whole broad scope of story telling, but can any of the games detractors honestly find an open world game that had a genuinely great plot? I've heard The Witcher 3 has a pretty strong narrative and cast, but I've only played that game for a few hours around a friends house. Big open world RPG fare, I find, will often consist of a lot of loosely connected lore and subplots that actually serve to make the exploratory elements of the game all the more fun.

 

There is a large swathe of the gaming community that venerate impressively dull people like AlphaOmegaSin, or any other Youtuber whose channels are filled with their own overinflated anger, embarrassing sense of privilege and generally unintelligent responses to anything they don't understand - which is almost everything. The whole undignified kerfuffle surrounding Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball, for example. That lewd masculine response to the news that the game wouldn't be marketed in the UK and America honestly makes me wonder about the sexuality of some gamers. "I'M A MAN SO I LIKE YOUNG NUBILE ANIME GIRLS WITH LARGE BREASTS BOUNCING UP AND DOWN SO I'M DEFINITELY NOT INTO OTHER MEN WHO WEAR FEDORAS AND READ RICHARD DAWKINS."

 

Good job of convincing me, ab-human gamers of the internet! :3

[Seattleite]

I love this game, but the companion characters are fucking evil. They all think they need to stand about half a foot up my ass, block every doorway, block me when I try to back up, push me out of cover, get in my way when I'm shooting (and especially when I throw a grenade), throw any grenades they find directly into a wall and kill both of us, shoot me when I go into melee and use up all our ammunition and stimpacks.

 

Fuck them all, so much. Lone wanderer for fucking life.

[Alyxx Thorne]

I love this game, but the companion characters are fucking evil. They all think they need to stand about half a foot up my ass, block every doorway, block me when I try to back up, push me out of cover, get in my way when I'm shooting (and especially when I throw a grenade), throw any grenades they find directly into a wall and kill both of us, shoot me when I go into melee and use up all our ammunition and stimpacks.

 

Fuck them all, so much. Lone wanderer for fucking life.

I've never had those problems. The only problem I have is that they are either up in my face when I want them to move out of the way, or when I need them to carry my stuff they're somewhere jerking off.