Mod Interest 2: Mod Harder

[Seattleite]

So, I put entirely too much time and planning into the TC mentioned in the last thread to just abandon it, but I came to realize that if I am devoting THAT much time and attention to a mod, it should be something I can stamp my name on. Something that is, without a doubt, mine. My game, in my setting, with my rules. Not just a fan-made Half-Life expansion. So I thought to myself what I wanted to make that Source would be GREAT at, and I ended up with two ideas.

 

The first was a free-roaming crime simulator with a more realistic spin than Grand Theft Auto or Saints Row, something that really gives a tougher, more gritty feel and most importantly where getting caught committing a crime is something the player wants to avoid at all costs.

 

The second was a revolution simulator overthrowing a corrupt and malevolent government you don't honestly have a chance against, but once again with a more realistic spin on it than Half-Life 2 or Red Faction. One where, spoiler warning, your rebellion is brutally put down in the end in a way that both shows why it was stupid to rebel *and* why the rebels did it anyway.

 

Now, this thread would be asking which I should do, but the more I tried to decide the more I realised these can, easily, be the same game. I still don't have a title, but hold off on the suggestions until I explain the game. I really just want to do a basic overview, mostly background and plot, today.

 

First, I need to mention that there is alternate history going on here. I don't have time for a detailed explanation, so I'll try and sum up the important and relevant bits in a few quick sentences. The third world war happened in the late '80s and early '90s, Europe's a nuclear wasteland, the US has split itself in two arguing over who has to clean up that mess, a bunch of corporate suits took over the Middle East, Africa, South and Central America, Mexico, Greece and South-East Asia while everybody not in those regions was busy pointing nukes at eachother, and the loyalist half of the US (the half you're in) is at war with them over oil rights in the Gulf of Mexico, has locked itself into a tailspin and has become an even more corrupt, violent police state than it already was, getting worse every day. Fun times.

 

The game takes place in a large, fictional city on a fictional island off the coast of Texas. The city has roughly two million inhabitants (canonically, of course not nearly that many in-game) and is far enough off the coast that they couldn't build a bridge yet close enough a small aircraft can reach Houston. The city makes most of its money from trade, as the waters between it and the coast are too shallow for freight ships to travel so it gets to collect their cargo and sell it to the rest of Texas at a slight markup. A gig greatly enhanced by greasing the palms of state politicians to ensure lower taxes on goods entering the country through them, ensuring that foreign companies choose them over other Texan ports when possible.

 

As is normal for a port city with both a good number of super-rich assholes hoarding all the money and a massive working class population that is expanding faster than the job market, it is absolutely overrun with crime as all the poor kids with no job opportunities turn to illegal activities in a desperate attempt, mostly in vain, to make enough money to not die on the streets. You're one of these, and you're even worse off than the rest. You're 14, you came from a middle-class family and just found out the hard way you were two spots of bad luck away from living on the street. First your parents are busted for marijuana possession and sentenced to four years in prison, then you were put into a run-down orphanage that has *literally* started to collapse in on itself. Shortly thereafter, the place was closed and due to a combination of a mis-count and a clerical error you were left behind and nobody knows you exist. Of course, just because you can't get anything you need legally doesn't mean you can go without it.

 

The game basically starts off with you just trying to survive. You need food, water and a place to sleep. The orphanage is only one of those, and a dubious one at that. You'll need to head out fairly soon for food and water. And you'll initially have to cover your expenses through theft. You can branch out into other crimes later, but it'll be theft for now. This stage can go on as long as you can keep it going, if you want. Later on, eventually you'll either get caught or just commit enough crimes fast enough they figure out who it is. And then they'll come to arrest you. The game could very well end or become unwinnable depending on your actions, but if you surrender quickly and let them take you, you'll end up in prison.

 

In prison, you'll meet other unfortunate victims of the system (the majority of the population), some real criminals, and a few people from a revolutionary group who intentionally got arrested to recruit people from prison. You don't have to accept, but not accepting means not progressing the plot. If you do accept, you can either carry out a prison break or just wait until you're let out. Either way, report to the address given to join the revolution.

 

To say the rebels use terrorist tactics would be to beat around the bush. They're flat-out terrorists. Granted, they're an evil fighting an evil much greater than themselves, but that doesn't mean they're not evil. We don't grade on a curve, here. They start hiring you on missions that pay quite well, and you go out and do them. These range from thefts and sabotage to assassination and arson, all the way up to bombings as you get farther in. And the targets of those bombings are federal buildings, court houses, police stations... Not easy targets to hit, and just about impossible to avoid collateral damage hitting.

 

Towards the end, though, it goes open. And your rebels manage to overthrow the city government, declaring it an independent nation. Very briefly. The US 4th fleet shows up within the day of your victory. They destroy every vehicle capable of escaping, and then they destroy the entire city. And to add insult to injury, they dispatch and entire infantry regiment to declare martial law over the survivors. And why no, a regiment is not enough for that kind of job, so for the most part instead of a functional martial law they just murder anybody they don't like.

 

You can keep playing after the game ends. Then it's just a sandbox in what's left of the city. There's a little bit of a ticking clock element going on there, since the hospital has been destroyed, ridding you of an invaluable method of healing yourself. But things start getting weird here, like it can't be real. The fires never stop burning, no matter how much time passes. Enemies begin appearing that don't belong in this setting and don't behave like regular enemies, that nobody sees but the player and see nobody but the player. The whole city resets and all the bads respawn every time you sleep. And finally (in the final build of the game) you have a dream sometimes when you sleep of being trapped under rubble in a collapsed building, with nobody around to help you, and a pistol next to you, but the dream always ends when you grab it.

 

While I'm not going into detail on gameplay today, what I can say is that the player is going to be focused on just not dying while completing their objectives, killing people (even enemies) is actively penalized, and getting caught committing a crime (especially murder) is something the player is going to want to avoid at all costs. The stealth elements are very simple but not shallow, you have a few effective less-lethal options, and healing injuries is very difficult, and the more severe they are the harder it becomes. The game is HARD, from beginning to end, and there's a delicate balancing act you need to perform between keeping up your finances and maintaining a low profile that will get harder with each mistake. And while the gameplay shifts a lot in the epilogue, for instance looting takes the place of stealing for the most part, notoriety and the cost of living are still real things there that you need to watch out for. They're less important in the epilogue, but you're in more physical danger in the epilogue as well.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[ThePest179]

Well damn. That's very ambitious, and I hope that you go through with it. Best of luck.

[BTGBullseye]

Sounds like an interesting game... Make sure the player can customize the weapons, (different sights, barrel-mounted accessories, under-barrel launchers, etc.) and his/her armor. (several helmet types that variably decrease the damage taken by headshots, vest soft and hard armor, full body armors, etc.)

[Seattleite]

Well BTG, remember that this is a Source mod. I've seen some wild things done in Source, but I've made a point not to include anything complex I've never seen anybody do at least some version of, because it means I can find out how it was done and copy it with whatever changes I need. I can have a store mechanic because it was in all the versions of Counter-Strike, I can do grapple attacks and melee attacks with ranged weapons because they were in L4D, I can do RPG levelling mechanics because they were in Modular Combat, I can have weaknesses and resistances for various enemies because it was in Half-Life 2 Episode 2 and Black Mesa, that kind of thing.

 

That largely rules out customizable weapons, because I've never seen anybody include such a mechanic in source. And remembering that for most of the game you're avoiding combat and don't have any access to military hardware, it's unlikely such a mechanic would be of much use to the player.

 

I'm also reusing Half-Life 2 resources for the weapons, as well as Black Mesa resources and any other free resources I can find. This largely limits what will be in the game. See, I want to not have to ask anybody else to be directly involved in the creation process until the game is already a playable alpha. Then, when I go around asking for animations, models, textures, or most of all voice acting, I'll have something to show that by then should be able to gather enough respect to get me those things. Make sense?

 

The game also keeps the equipment you have access to fairly low-key, and doesn't step it up much even in the epilogue. And while what I can use varies depending on what I can find free models for (I'd LOVE IT if I could just take guns from CS:S and GS:GO) but there's no rocket launchers, heavy machine guns, or even any weapons with attached grenade launchers. In fact, no weapon has a secondary fire because the secondary fire button on ranged weapons is a melee attack, and you can't aim down site because I don't have the animations for it either.

 

And body armour is hard to acquire, too. It's a pain in the ass to purchase armour legally, and it's expensive. Wait periods, background checks, instant notoriety build-up... And you're under age, so all of that gets worse *and* you're more than likely to be flat-out refused. Once you can buy it, though, it's $400 for heavy clothing, $900 for light armour, $1600 for medium armour and $2500 for heavy armour. Plates cost half as much as the armour, as do helmets, and there's no plates for clothing. You can buy armour at an exorbitant rate at any black market to bypass all the legal hassles, but when I say the words "exorbitant rate" you have to believe me. Heavy clothing is $800, light armour is $2700, medium armour is $6400 and heavy armour is $12500, with the same mark ups for the plates and helmets. (So if you want full heavy with plates and helmet, you're dropping $25k on it at a black market.) It's worth it, though. Armour in this game is extremely effective, almost realistically effective, to the point where you will frequently be shooting for the arms or legs on purpose just to avoid hitting an enemy's vest.

 

And killing an enemy can give you plates or a helmet, but only if you have the armour. And this mod's enemies are, by the standards of most shooters, immensely overpowered to the point where a single enemy, even a relatively weak one like a gang member or a security guard, is a serious threat to your life. Even winning will often come with injuries that are hard to heal and notoriety with their faction and the law that can cause you problems down the road, making killing enemies for their stuff even less of an option. So mostly you'd be buying weapons and armour, which means you'll be stealing, making/selling "recreational substances" or doing jobs for any of the game's long list of criminal organizations.

 

Also, BTG, I'd like to ask what you think about me reusing resources from Half-Life 2 and mods of Half-Life 2 for the armour.

 

Your starter light clothing is Dr. Breen's outfit or Alyx Vance's outfit sans the logo (depending on sex). Most NPCs wear the white shirt citizen outfits from Half-life 2. Prisoners wear the denim citizen jumpsuits from Half-Life 2. Light clothing only provides a 20% protection against animal attacks and buckshot, nothing else. The hat model is undecided and likely will vary between the sexes to better fit their outfits, but it provides 10 armour points and resists headshot damage 5% after breaking.

 

Your heavy clothing is the trenchcoat CP outfit sans the mask and arm band. Your rebel buddies later wear the same heavy clothing as you. Heavy clothing resists 60% of buckshot, 40% animal attacks, regular pistols and submachine guns, 20% knife cuts, frag grenades and high-penetration pistols and submachine guns. The hat's model is undecided, but it provides 20 armour points and resists headshot damage 10% after breaking.

 

Your light armour (and police light armour) is a darkened version of the civil protection armour sans the mask and vest and if you do get a vest it's the Black Mesa security vest instead. The helmet for this armour is a light, black tactical helmet (a recoloured version of the Black Mesa medic helmet). Security guards wear only the vest and sometimes the helmet with light clothing underneath, if they wear armour at all. Light armour resists 100% of buckshot, 80% of regular pistols and submachine guns, 60% of high-penetration pistols, submachine guns and animal attacks, 40% cuts and frag grenades, 20% thrusts, axe chops, left hooks, pipe bombs and flashbangs. The hard plating provides 120 armour points (another 30 with the helmet) and resists melee damage and damage to the torso (head with a helmet) 15% after breaking.

 

Your medium armour the Black Mesa HECU armour (used in-game by the National Guard, as the PASGT and SPC are obsolete and would only be used by reserve units) with the plate carrier and helmet being separate items. SWAT officers wear the vest and helmet without the soft armour. Medium armour resists 100% of buckshot, all pistols and submachine guns, 80% animal attacks, 60% cuts and frag grenades, 40% thrusts, axe chops, hooks, pipe bombs and flashbangs, 20% blunt weapons, straight punches and molotovs. The hard plating provides 160 armour points (another 40 with the helmet) and resists melee damage and damage to the torso (head with a helmet) 20% after breaking.

 

Your heavy armour is the combine overwatch armour with an ACH instead of a full-face helm, urban camouflage and the insignia and emblems swapped to fit it being used by the 25th Marines. (US ranks, 25th Marines insignia and an American flag instead of combine ranks, Overwatch insignia and a Combine emblem.) Heavy armour resists 100% of buckshot, all pistols, submachine guns and animal attacks, 80% cuts and frag grenades, 60% thrusts, axe chops, hooks, pipe bombs and flashbangs, 20% blunt weapons, straight punches and molotovs. If there is an Ak-47 in the game it'll be resisted 40% and if there is any weapon in 5.56 it'll be resisted 20%. The hard plating provides 200 armour points (another 50 with the helmet) and resists melee damage and damage to the torso (head with a helmet) 25% after breaking.

[BTGBullseye]

Well BTG, remember that this is a Source mod. I've seen some wild things done in Source, but I've made a point not to include anything complex I've never seen anybody do at least some version of, because it means I can find out how it was done and copy it with whatever changes I need. I can have a store mechanic because it was in all the versions of Counter-Strike, I can do grapple attacks and melee attacks with ranged weapons because they were in L4D, I can do RPG levelling mechanics because they were in Modular Combat, I can have weaknesses and resistances for various enemies because it was in Half-Life 2 Episode 2 and Black Mesa, that kind of thing.

 

That largely rules out customizable weapons, because I've never seen anybody include such a mechanic in source. And remembering that for most of the game you're avoiding combat and don't have any access to military hardware, it's unlikely such a mechanic would be of much use to the player.

It's remarkably easy to make a modded weapon system in Source; you just make additional weapons. You can actually have hundreds of different ones, all with the same name, and inventory slot in-game with no issue. What you'd have to do is have the character's weapons removed, and then added back when they purchase from the store. (the first weapon inserted in the slot takes precedence over any other weapons encountered for the slot) Just have a slot for each type of ammo or whatever, and you're good to go.

 

Also, BTG, I'd like to ask what you think about me reusing resources from Half-Life 2 and mods of Half-Life 2 for the armour.

They're good resources. Might want to look into getting HD versions of some of the models though, if possible.

 

Your starter light clothing is Dr. Breen's outfit or Alyx Vance's outfit sans the logo (depending on sex). Most NPCs wear the white shirt citizen outfits from Half-life 2. Prisoners wear the denim citizen jumpsuits from Half-Life 2. Light clothing only provides a 20% protection against animal attacks and buckshot, nothing else. The hat model is undecided and likely will vary between the sexes to better fit their outfits, but it provides 10 armour points and resists headshot damage 5% after breaking.

Might I suggest no more than 5% resist for buckshot and 10% for animal attacks? 20% is unrealistic in the extreme for buck resistance from light clothing, as 00 buck (what you supposedly normally see in games) can go through mild steel plate (up to 3/16") at 15 yds with killing force on the other side IRL.

 

Side note, for shotguns, make sure whatever type of ammo you're choosing has the same number of pellets, penetration, and spread as the real stuff. (#000 buck usually has 6 pellets, #00 has 8, and #0 gets 9, and so on) I personally would like to see games use #4 buck for the ammo, as it uses .24" pellets, and there are 21 of them in each shot. (plus the performance is much closer to what you see portrayed in most games that show 6-8 pellet impacts per shot) Also, please include flechette/dart rounds for the shotguns if possible. (50% improved penetration, 30% reduced damage)

 

Your heavy clothing is the trenchcoat CP outfit sans the mask and arm band. Your rebel buddies later wear the same heavy clothing as you. Heavy clothing resists 60% of buckshot, 40% animal attacks, regular pistols and submachine guns, 20% knife cuts, frag grenades and high-penetration pistols and submachine guns. The hat's model is undecided, but it provides 20 armour points and resists headshot damage 10% after breaking.

Going back to RL performance of shotguns, I would suggest for anything that isn't designed to be armor be reduced in resistance to them. For heavy clothing 20% is a better range IMO. (same for pistols and SMGs) The fragments from grenades are usually small needle-like chunks of steel, flying at between 2x-5x the speed of sound... If you're within the blast radius, nothing but plate (which should protect completely, and receive little or no damage at all to the plate itself) is going to protect you by more than 10%. (I would suggest making that a standard across all the armors, and remove any fragment resistance from mere clothing)

 

Unless that hat is made from half-thickness kevlar plate, it shouldn't resist anywhere near that much damage... I'd say 2% is more accurate until you're using a helmet. (also, armor points from the hat, but not anything else?)

 

Your light armour (and police light armour) is a darkened version of the civil protection armour sans the mask and vest and if you do get a vest it's the Black Mesa security vest instead. The helmet for this armour is a light, black tactical helmet (a recoloured version of the Black Mesa medic helmet). Security guards wear only the vest and sometimes the helmet with light clothing underneath, if they wear armour at all. Light armour resists 100% of buckshot, 80% of regular pistols and submachine guns, 60% of high-penetration pistols, submachine guns and animal attacks, 40% cuts and frag grenades, 20% thrusts, axe chops, left hooks, pipe bombs and flashbangs. The hard plating provides 120 armour points (another 30 with the helmet) and resists melee damage and damage to the torso (head with a helmet) 15% after breaking.

See previous about buckshot and fragmentary weapon recommendations. (this includes the pipe-bombs)

 

I would also suggest that unless it has plate, kevlar fabric armor (the norm for light armor) won't do anything to protect against an axe or hatchet IRL. (unless it's being swung very slowly)

 

Your medium armour the Black Mesa HECU armour (used in-game by the National Guard, as the PASGT and SPC are obsolete and would only be used by reserve units) with the plate carrier and helmet being separate items. SWAT officers wear the vest and helmet without the soft armour. Medium armour resists 100% of buckshot, all pistols and submachine guns, 80% animal attacks, 60% cuts and frag grenades, 40% thrusts, axe chops, hooks, pipe bombs and flashbangs, 20% blunt weapons, straight punches and molotovs. The hard plating provides 160 armour points (another 40 with the helmet) and resists melee damage and damage to the torso (head with a helmet) 20% after breaking.

See previous about buckshot and fragmentary weapon recommendations. (this includes the pipe-bombs) Additional, unless there's plates, any form of soft armor is incapable of fully preventing all damage caused by pistols/SMGs. True, it could be a 95-99% reduction, but unless it's going against a .22 short, you're going to have some bruising or welts. For larger calibers, (.45 ACP, .50 AE, .45 long colt, etc.) broken bones and internal bleeding are not only possible, but likely.

 

Your heavy armour is the combine overwatch armour with an ACH instead of a full-face helm, urban camouflage and the insignia and emblems swapped to fit it being used by the 25th Marines. (US ranks, 25th Marines insignia and an American flag instead of combine ranks, Overwatch insignia and a Combine emblem.) Heavy armour resists 100% of buckshot, all pistols, submachine guns and animal attacks, 80% cuts and frag grenades, 60% thrusts, axe chops, hooks, pipe bombs and flashbangs, 20% blunt weapons, straight punches and molotovs. If there is an Ak-47 in the game it'll be resisted 40% and if there is any weapon in 5.56 it'll be resisted 20%. The hard plating provides 200 armour points (another 50 with the helmet) and resists melee damage and damage to the torso (head with a helmet) 25% after breaking.

See previous about buckshot, fragmentary weapon, and pistol/SMG recommendations. (this includes the pipe-bombs)

 

Your numbers for caliber resistances are way off, as a 7.62 will always hit harder than a 5.56... Even plate will only survive a few (3-4) direct hits from a standard 7.62 NATO, but can do a dozen or more from 5.56 NATO. It's more about the mass than it is the diameter when you're talking about armor penetration, and a 7.62 usually has 3x-4x the mass of a 5.56, and travels around the same velocity.

______________________________________________________________

 

What do you think?

[Seattleite]

It's remarkably easy to make a modded weapon system in Source; you just make additional weapons. You can actually have hundreds of different ones, all with the same name, and inventory slot in-game with no issue. What you'd have to do is have the character's weapons removed, and then added back when they purchase from the store. (the first weapon inserted in the slot takes precedence over any other weapons encountered for the slot) Just have a slot for each type of ammo or whatever, and you're good to go.

 

I'll think about it for custom ammunition, but not weapon modifications because I'm limited to available resources and a stickler for details. Two MP5 models made by different people will be different in more than just the type of sight they have, and that will irritate me to no end.

 

They're good resources. Might want to look into getting HD versions of some of the models though, if possible.

 

That's the opinion I was looking for, though I was hoping for opinions on the specific articles used. Like combine armour (sans helmet) for the futuristic marines.

 

And you mean HD models like these, or like the HD update to HL2?

 

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/594763398186046746/B7438169D60C1C39043DA50DCDD7E8BA9A0419C0/

 

Might I suggest no more than 5% resist for buckshot and 10% for animal attacks? 20% is unrealistic in the extreme for buck resistance from light clothing, as 00 buck (what you supposedly normally see in games) can go through mild steel plate (up to 3/16") at 15 yds with killing force on the other side IRL.

 

I really wasn't asking for an opinion on the performance, just the appearance and what it says to the player, but okay.

 

I've seen that claim, and looked it up, after a similar debate on another site. The thing is that the shot used was 3.5" 00, against a 316L steel plate. 316L is shit steel, weaker than any form of brass or bronze, or even some aluminiums, and 3.5" 00 has the penetration of a pistol round. The thing is that the shot used in-game is #1, 2.5" buck. It has about half the penetration of 3.5" 00. It only goes about 3/4 of the way through a human body as it is. Literally anything will reduce the damage it does, because it already isn't going all the way through, and it's not even reaching all the way through your vital organs so it'll be significant.

 

The "light clothing" in-game is somewhat misleadingly named, I only named it that to distinguish it from the "heavy" clothing that is also poorly named. I'll change the names to something more accurate, which would just be "clothing" and "low-profile armour". The outfit you wear to start is either a business suit over a sweater or a denim jacket over a cotton shirt. Both are worth about a dozen t-shirts and would actually be reasonably helpful if a dog bit you, which is the only animal attack in the main game. As for buckshot, I would estimate that *at most* penetration depth would be reduced two centimetres by either outfit. But, that's two centimetres less damage to your vitals, less force it would have to get through tougher regions of your body (like your chest, where there's both bone and sinew everywhere) and a harder time even reaching organs like the heart that are notoriously hard to reach with a low-power projectile due to the placement of the bone around them.

 

EDIT:

I'm going to, instead of editing this section, explain what I was trying to say, with math. Denim has a tensile strength of 50MPa. It varies on variety, but that's the low end. The denim in a jacket would be about 1-2 millimetres thick. Human muscle fibers are ~2-3MPa, human adipose tissue is ~200-400KPa, human sinew is ~250MPa. With their distribution in human mucles, that gives an average tensile strength of ~5Mpa. So the denim is worth ten times its thickness in human tissue, and that would mean 1-2 centimetres, even with a really crappy denim jacket. And yes, it being worth 1-2 centimetres means the shot will penetrate 1-2 centimetres less. It does slightly counteract this due to clothing fibres getting into the wound and increasing the risk on infection, but in the immediate concerns of dying of blood loss or organ failure, it makes a small, but significant, difference.

 

And remember that not every shot is point-blank at a good angle. I also need to account for shots at a distance and a bad angle. Alyx's jacket would probably outright stop #1 at a hundred metres, or even at point blank if it was at a sufficiently oblique angle.

 

EDIT:

Find a relative armour calculator. If the shotgun only penetrates 20cm of human tissue, and thus would penetrate 2cm of denim, then getting a relative thickness of 2cm would stop the shotgun.

 

Side note, for shotguns, make sure whatever type of ammo you're choosing has the same number of pellets, penetration, and spread as the real stuff. (#000 buck usually has 6 pellets, #00 has 8, and #0 gets 9, and so on) I personally would like to see games use #4 buck for the ammo, as it uses .24" pellets, and there are 21 of them in each shot. (plus the performance is much closer to what you see portrayed in most games that show 6-8 pellet impacts per shot)

 

Already accounted for. The ammunition is 12 gauge, 2.5" #1, which fires ten projectiles. The shotgun in-game fires ten projectiles to match. This is my favourite shot round for games because it fires an even 10 projectiles (easy to work with), penetrates well enough to be lethal at a long distance and has a good balance between stopping power against dogs (the representative animals I chose, should be obvious why) and people.

 

Also, I have to mention really quickly that percentage reductions are not linear. This has to be clear. For instance, a 90% resistance may look like it's 1/8 more effective than an 80% resistance, but it's actually twice as effective because you take half as much damage with it. And a 10% resistance may seem ten times better than a 1% resitance, but it's actually only 10% better. I have to think about that for gameplay balance and adjust accordingly. That's part of why this value is higher and other values are lower than the strict, linear interpretation of their resistances would say they should be.

 

Also, please include flechette/dart rounds for the shotguns if possible. (50% improved penetration, 30% reduced damage)

 

Isn't that the same stats I for flechettes I used in my Fallout: New Vegas mod? +50% from the highest power buck in penetration, -30% from the lowest power buck in damage? Probably a coincidence.

 

And actually, I'd probably make it really simplified for the players and choose a smaller number of larger flechettes that would be really poor for damage but really killer for penetration, as to make the effects immediately noticeable. 5 flechettes, 15 damage (instead of 10 pellets for 30 damage) but it has four times normal penetration. It'll ignore everything up to light armour, only be resisted 40% by light armour and 80% by medium. Still won't do a damn thing to heavy.

 

Going back to RL performance of shotguns, I would suggest for anything that isn't designed to be armor be reduced in resistance to them. For heavy clothing 20% is a better range IMO. (same for pistols and SMGs) The fragments from grenades are usually small needle-like chunks of steel, flying at between 2x-5x the speed of sound... If you're within the blast radius, nothing but plate (which should protect completely, and receive little or no damage at all to the plate itself) is going to protect you by more than 10%. (I would suggest making that a standard across all the armors, and remove any fragment resistance from mere clothing)

 

I would like to quickly apologize for intentionally using innacurate terms to try and communicate to uninformed audiences, when I was clearly dealing with an informed one. The "trench coat" is a duster, I figured more people knew "trench coat" than "duster", it's made of leather. More specifically, the one in-game is made of cuir bouilli, which is a rawhide boiled in wax. It is very effective against edged penetrators, even so thin and by itself. And this is armour made by a rebel group, so of course they attached kevlar to the interior. It's still lighter and thinner than the police armour that is already light armour, and it is made to look like clothing, but it is still armour. If anything, I have understated the effectiveness of this armour against shrapnel for balance reasons, because the cuir bouilli would actually stop all but the largest fragments of a grenade.

 

EDIT:

Yes, I am 100% aware that since rawhide is not tanned, it is not technically leather.

 

Unless that hat is made from half-thickness kevlar plate, it shouldn't resist anywhere near that much damage... I'd say 2% is more accurate until you're using a helmet. (also, armor points from the hat, but not anything else?)

 

Armour points come strictly from hard armour, soft armour is separate. And that hat has a thin, metal interior. The metal is tempered steel, flexible to fit the user's head better, but still tough enough to deflect bullets at an oblique angle. And it's under a Cuir Bouilli cowboy hat. (Cowboy hat is a good choice because they keep the sun off your neck and many have a strap to keep them from falling off when riding a horse, which also helps keep it from falling while in combat or a bullet hits it.)

 

I would also suggest that unless it has plate, kevlar fabric armor (the norm for light armor) won't do anything to protect against an axe or hatchet IRL. (unless it's being swung very slowly)

 

Modern police-issue body armour is frequently supplemented with chain specifically because the cops wearing them are concerned about edged weapons. Futuristic body armour for cops would have the chain built-in between the layers of kevlar, and would provide at least some protection.

 

EDIT:

Yes, I'm aware that the cops are doing this entirely on their own, and it's not part of the actual armour itself. But it's a good idea, I don't see why the new future armour wouldn't pick it up. Other than cost, and if they're willing to upgrade the armour at all that's clearly not their chief concern anymore.

 

See previous about buckshot and fragmentary weapon recommendations. (this includes the pipe-bombs) Additional, unless there's plates, any form of soft armor is incapable of fully preventing all damage caused by pistols/SMGs. True, it could be a 95-99% reduction, but unless it's going against a .22 short, you're going to have some bruising or welts. For larger calibers, (.45 ACP, .50 AE, .45 long colt, etc.) broken bones and internal bleeding are not only possible, but likely.

 

First, a bullet feels like a paintball when it hits armour. You'd be looking at minor bruises from it or any pistol. Even the .50 AE only leaves bruises. Sorry, but that really doesn't matter. You can get your skin bruised until your whole body turns purple and not be killed by it. It certainly isn't enough to account for a full point of damage. Second, why does everybody denigrate PASGT? Even surplus PASGT that is a couple years old can stop pistol rounds and provides decent padding, a fresh PASGT will stop them all damn day, and any reserve unit using it today would be using padding with it and possibly also the scalable plate carrier.

 

See previous about buckshot, fragmentary weapon, and pistol/SMG recommendations. (this includes the pipe-bombs)

 

Your numbers for caliber resistances are way off, as a 7.62 will always hit harder than a 5.56... Even plate will only survive a few (3-4) direct hits from a standard 7.62 NATO, but can do a dozen or more from 5.56 NATO. It's more about the mass than it is the diameter when you're talking about armor penetration, and a 7.62 usually has 3x-4x the mass of a 5.56, and travels around the same velocity.

 

EDIT:

I just realised that you thought I meant the 7.62x51 NATO. I meant the 7.62x39mm Russian round, as used in the Kalashnikov series of rifles.

 

Thick kevlar, full-torso plate, chainmail interlay, heavy padding. It's a +5 Armour of Fuck Your Puny Earth Weapons. It's 2018, alternate history,the heated cold war and third world war accelerated weapons technology and we have personal laser weapons (I really hope I can find models for them), I think some better than modern body armour is fine, thanks.

 

And for the record, modern armour doesn't give a shit about rifles. At all. Here, take a look. And this is just the AR 500 steel plate, not the full suit, and they never breached it, they just shot it 63 times with a 5.56 and gave up trying to get through it. The full suit would provide additional padding and assist the plate in defeating projectiles, massively extending the life of the plate. I am thoroughly convinced that no amount of 5.56x45mm NATO or 7.62x39mm Kalashnikov rounds will penetrate it. The armour in game is actually a MASSIVE understatement of the capability of real-world body armour, and it's futuristic body armour designed by a country that poured money into weapons and armour research to counter advancing weapons and armour research of other superpowers for seventy years after the end of the second world war. If you want to complain about it, complain about it not being overpowered enough.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-ClokH0ks

 

As for the 7.62x39 doing more than the 5.56x45, that's definitely true... Against hard armour. The resistance listed is soft armour penetration, as in the resistance everywhere you don't have plating (arms and legs at all times, torso when the plates are broken) where the 5.56 has a slight edge. Against hard armour, the 7.62x39mm deals 5 damage as opposed to 3, and will break hard armour significantly faster. It takes 20 shots to break 100 armour points with a 7.62x39, but it takes 34 shots to do it with a 5.56x45. (With two points of damage carrying over to the user.)

______________________________________________________________

 

What do you think?

 

I think I'd like an opinion as to how each set of armour aesthetically fits, rather than its practical capabilities. How does it look, what does it say, does it break or enhance the immersion, that kind of thing. That's what I was looking for. I don't mind the rest of it, personally I'm just glad to be back on the forum, but I wanted aesthetic notes rather than practical ones.

 

EDIT:

To clarify, I don't mind the practical notes. It doesn't bother me to explain any of this. I just would prefer to get the opinion I asked for as well. You can keep talking about the practical side, now that my question has been answered.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

Aesthetically, they work pretty good... As for the HD models I was mentioning, I consider the CP armor in the Cinematic Mod to be quite good. (say what you want about the mod itself, but the CP/combine models were awesome)

[Seattleite]

...Okay, just read my own post and I find it incredibly confusing. Now that I'm sober, I am presently going to go back and edit my previous post to make more sense. Apologies if you found it completely impenetrable.

[BTGBullseye]

Ok, most of those edits helped a lot... I would've had a longer post initially, but I had places to see and people to do... (...wait... That ain't quite right...)

 

First, once I knew what you meant considering the two clothing levels, it makes a lot more sense about your damage resistances. However, there are many different densities of denim... One is the standard denim jeans style denim, (a medium density) another is designer-style soft denim, (very light, on par with thick t-shirt material for protection) and yet another is heavy denim. (very dense, probably the material you're talking about, can significantly reduce damage by a large variety of weapons) It's also good to know that it's actually a duster instead of a trench coat. (makes a HUGE difference in the resistance it has on projectiles)

 

You might want to consider the content in this video when looking at the damage values you're going to use in your mod... https://youtu.be/tku8YI68-JA?t=43s

 

Also, some resources that you should look at for the light armor and penetration in general...

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2009/07/30-things-you-need-to-know-about-body-armor.aspx

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=391313

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/27823-45-vs-body-armor.html

https://dl.boxcloud.com/bc/4/346f24a1db3577e04e03ee5d3b9ebfac/S_JNDBp-f6owoVYyi6vcPTTh-p21giX_iaR1eeG9nnYLRWXd79zuQ8gVCymgti48oxwHqt1_5F2tlkZcgTF-nha-jvUa0hilDCR66UMWWlY1wx9ZOpbCos4R_5TRblSKqUfSBrIhDd05xpYeeoyg_pqOOqRt2Ch7i9o4DLJNt39bf4nRV856upudfgwcLtqtWeGAwOdEkOk_F4xcTs2WCaIA5yS_RQn4MHbsBaE44nHNkSH9n4ix2hQeLpowg3tb4_3C9jvJgjBGRzJ6MhmZixhi8cplgO-UX1h1qSVYmEZLefdOgJzL76tiyE9g44eJTEZVQhtGgosUD2Ne33W1f4j5VujGcpSh3jA9argPwXW8bFCM_Sok3bqdR4Iz2VxJl20PzF_gXV--oQPsVMdLHlhtvDSCLugzdyMbKbXEnqkW5D3JMsyO_zBBM5sOFnThp6xjVQNgv-ri1HV2tuRcxncFEjeWVlJIBsSojTI4DIRvzkm9BxA9Pk3kRqXGdlmGfsfFvBwKajn3jhdQsBACkugpE5tmrCxxd0U_9r3P2gKtefLrbU2oRlzQBddekg_hrKn6OGPNRD-moxCecG6eLdWhpzTCdYbMdpkJu0fYyE9fC2-jR4SvrRMD4jGvajTFshJHgu6G5jBlH2-4apB5o-g3O3TvXdz6E7vRBix44cGHb7KHiNtmYi2BN2O68cz2zV31dKGvJ6m0jslv5FGR7ELdOEY9hLhpl1umVaLme5hDRM28JGbCsyDq27ielMxO-gLdPu8iEEkaZUUjZEGd3aHaQGDXnDMAsw08fJ-LyvZiK7_D3Y22lKAI4IglLcoStQl58Vgjh3Gbld9NJQ-ZcxcTu4tZsS3SRlbtaNHq7P4NWelihIO8n7j5DIeSi9_rpy7demhlXBvjkjhayQsK2THDUwJRGw-62g5LH_yEXN7MfqeLAaH-mOv4t7o82SKCe6tFkVMBVgk5fD5QVTTFWKus79DIyuT7f_gNN0J4cyGapuShSdS7C2PjFrOeioPMF7UGbfmck3F1okmcEa0XE6W9yhRZbqcN-hIRFEyCL6eBKLsMTeyM9fbtSmI7jVLHugvfr-Gm9E5guheohIDWSqmzyHxtxDJnZgwpNZQvKQeT_XLesYiu3eMUH2sAncAq3E3RKW_eyxhSBsvbCWYlplI1Vkl3A546Or9owjJro9jzq5rwkcKANzxHd-mJ_RiuFapE38ghyFUOZwxjJr3WIjIrxnhGBSpWbHLxCfbcyhaAceGS376gSMPGUCHSTgbSIe3wxlXnmeU./

 

Have to go to bed now, or I'd link more... I'll probly post again later.

[Seattleite]

I know denim comes in different strengths. All cotton weaves vary from 40MPa to 80MPa, with most denim being 50MPa to 60MPa in jeans and other clothing. The big difference between them really isn't strength, it's hardness. And since they'll never be harder than the bullet, that doesn't amount to much when you're being shot. Now look at a picture of Alyx. The outfit will be (other than the loss of the Black Mesa logo) the same. Does that look like a soft, designer denim jacket to you? It certainly doesn't look like it to me, but it also doesn't look like it's a super-strong, super-hard denim built to keep you from poking yourself and getting lockjaw on the rusty wire fence at your ranch either. It's probably a fairly normal denim, same as her jeans, and would have the same material properties.

 

As for the duster, I know the difference. I own a trenchcoat, after all, and I chose it over a duster specifically because of how much lighter it was. (I want to keep my legs dry from both water and sweat, after all.) And even so, technically this isn't a duster because the material is different but whatever. I'm calling it a duster because it's built like a duster and there's no word for "leather armour in the form of a duster".

 

Also, my friend who does leatherwork corrected me on one thing. It's only cuir bouilli if it's boiled, which makes it inflexible. I thought cuir bouilli if it's waxed at all, but had I bothered to think about it and realise that cuir bouilli means "boiled hide", I would have figured that out. Parts of it may be cuir bouilli, such as a vest and arm guards underneath the duster, some parts of the chaps, and certainly the hat and boots, but the rest would just be waxed leather. Which is still strong and would be protective, but isn't hard. Learn something new every day, I guess.

 

Okay, quick responses to all the links.

 

1. Him being a doctor doesn't change the fact that he's wrong, and demonstrably so. Every single hypothesis ever constructed that would support the idea that a smaller-calibre rifle has better close-ranged stopping power than a higher calibre pistol has been discredited.

A. "Hydrostatic shock" is complete bullshit. The velocity of a rifle does not mean getting shot in the chest will make blood vessels pop in your brain, and people who believe it are lunatics for a dozen reasons, starting with the fact that there are even smaller, higher pressure blood vessels in the eyes that would pop from much less of a pressure increase than the ones in the brain, and when people get shot their eyes don't turn red. The other reason is because we have these things called "jet injectors" that create an overpressure the size of what you'd experience being shot with a small cannon, and we regularly use them on malnourished children with no ill effects other than a wickedly painful bruise. If their much greater overpressure doesn't cause the "remote wounding" effect, why would the much smaller overpressure cause it? And that's assume *any* overpressure would do it, which it wouldn't for the same reason dancing in a field will never make it rain.

B. Energy transfer does not equate to stopping power. Remember that every time in your life you've ever been slapped you took the energy of a pistol round and all it did was leave a little red spot. Bullets aren't deadly because they have a lot of energy behind them, they're deadly because they leave a big, open hole through your vital organs. What matters is the size of that hole, and while more energy will slightly increase the size of the wound channel, it's not by very much and you'll get much more mileage out of simply increasing the bore of the round than you will making it go faster. For the most part, all more energy means it a bigger laceration at the back end (which is shallow and smaller than it looks, and doesn't contribute much) and more bruising around the wound channel.

 

2. I'm aware that pistols will sometimes penetrate a vest rated to stop them, and there's a couple reasons why. But you're forgetting a few things.

A. Police body armour includes composite plates inlaid into it. They're not quite soft armour and not quite hard armour, but they make the bullet having "a little extra serration", as the idiot writing that put it, completely irrelevant. And plenty of cops supplement their armour with chain to stop knives, that would also stop bullets if placed between the layers of soft armour, as it distributes the force of the bullet across a wider section of fabric.

B. Most of the time, bullets penetrate a vest due to degradation of the kevlar, not because of anything special about the bullet. A vest a year old is significantly weaker than one fresh from the factory. It's the big reason I don't trust kevlar vests. Who's the say a future cop is even WEARING kevlar? Carbon fibre can easily be much stronger, harder, lighter, last longer and hold up to physical damage better. If I was to outfit the police of technologically advanced dystopia, I'd make their armour 4GPa carbon fibre, give it some light padding. And if they need more, a supplementary plate carrier. And I would pay to see somebody try to injure somebody through that with a handgun. You could try all damn day and turn up empty. And you know why I could do that? Because they're cops. They have plenty of funding for more expensive high-strength carbon fibre and they aren't going into battle so the longer lifespan is more relevant than it would be for a soldier, whose armour is going to get hit more and have to be replaced anyway.

 

3. These are just forumites, and they don't seem to know much about the rounds in question. They seem to be assuming the power of the round as made by the primary manufacturers applies to all rounds of these calibres. The powder used in most .45 rounds SUCKS. If it used the same powder as the typical 9mm, it would be nearly twice as powerful as it is now. In fact, you can do that pretty easy, because the powder used in 9mm bullets is often loaded into the .45, the one I know is called Bonded Defense. My setting's backstory, which I haven't covered because we don't have the weeks to do it in, eliminates this handily in much the same way it gives us personal laser weaponry. The same terrified politicians who threw huge amounts of money into weapons research for seventy years also put overly strict standards on weapons and ammunition manufacturing standards. The .45 had its powder updated with the 9mm because it was mandated by law that they do so.

 

I also don't know what this has to do with anything.

 

4. See above. Also, the post you seem to be directing me to in that thread has a hit and a miss in there. He's right that multiple rounds, close together will penetrate due to the damage done to the vest. But he's wrong that anything serious will happen to you before then. I've covered it before, it's like a paintball. Even these rounds are like a paintball, just moving faster.

 

5. This link is broken.

 

Okay, BTG, next question. I don't know if you know either, and for the life of me I can't find anything about this on Valve's developer community, but can I use all the keys on the number bar, just 1-0, or only 1-8? Because I want to make it so you can only have *one* item for each number key, making it easier for the player to switch to the weapon they want, when they want it. (Alternate ammunition types would be below that weapon on each number key, and would be harder to reach, but that's fine.) And how many keys I can use thus directly determines how many equippable items the player can have, excluding special items like the flashlight and riot shield.

 

And while I'm at it, here's a quick rundown of all the weapons I know will be in the game (because they're from Half-Life 2 or Black Mesa, or I've found the resources available for free).

 

Fists: Slot 1 (fist). Primary attack is a simple punch that deals 4 damage (non-locational) but is good against armour and has an 80% chance to critically hit (5x damage). Secondary attack is a hook that deals 8 damage but is worse against armour and has a 40% chance to critically hit. Fist damage is certainly low, but the weapon makes up for it by being less-lethal, not being classed as a weapon (allowing you to have it where you normally couldn't have a weapon) and resulting in a lesser sentence if you do kill somebody with it. You can block with this weapon (dedicated key, probably click the wheel), block percentage (melee/explosive) is 80/20%. Parry window (a period after starting to block where you take no damage from the first attack and stagger the attacker, staggered enemies cannot attack or defend) is 0.15s. 0% slowdown. Blocking only uses your left arm, and does not disable your primary attack. If I can, having this weapon out will permit the use of the beatdown grapple attack (activate a staggered enemy, armour-skipping, stunlocks enemy, consumes stamina very quickly, less lethal, will probably use the L4D hunter animation). Armour increases the strength of this weapon, increasing damage 25% and block percentage 5/5% for each armour weight above clothing. Perks may increase your parry window with this weapon, first to 0.2s and then to 0.25s.

 

Bowie knife: Slot 2 (melee sidearm). Primary attack is a slash that deals 16 damage but sucks against armour and has a 35% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a stab that deals 12 damage but is better against armour and has a 70% chance to critically hit. Both attacks deal double damage from behind target, criticals from behind deal 10x damage instead of 5x. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 90/10%. Parry window is 0.1s. 1.25% slowdown. You cannot attack while blocking with this weapon.

 

Baton: Slot 2 (melee sidearm). Primary attack is a quick swipe that deals 3 damage and has a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a moderate chop (as in, it's a chopping motion, it doesn't actually chop things) that deals 6 damage and has a 30% chance to critically hit, but it's slower. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 85%/15%. Parry window is 0.1s. This weapon is highly effective against armour. 1.25% slowdown. Less-lethal weapon.

 

Crowbar: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a moderate chop that deals 16 damage and has a 25% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a heavy swing that deals 32 damage and has the same 25% chance to critically hit, but is much slower. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 90/10%. Parry window is 0.1s. This weapon is highly effective against armour. 5% slowdown.

 

Rapier: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a quick swipe that deals 8 damage but sucks against armour and has a 25% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a stab that deals 8 damage, is better against armour, has a 50% chance to critically hit but is slower. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 95/5%. Parry window is 0.2s. This weapon long long reach. The rapier's primary attack is the fastest melee attack in the game, and the rapier is definitely best for parrying, able to parry more easily, blocking almost all damage if you pull too early, and being able to easily land multiple hits during the enemy's stagger animation.

 

There should be a friggin' saber right here, but there isn't, because all I can find is Star Wars crap when I search. But if I can find a saber model, dammit it's going in.

 

Baseball bat: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a quick swipe that deals 12 damage and has a 15% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a moderate chop that deals 24 damage and has the same 15% chance to critically hit, but isn't as fast. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 85%/15%. Parry window is 0.05s. This weapon is highly effective against armour. Two-handed. 2.5% slowdown. Likely your first melee weapon. Lighter than the crowbar, faster attack than the crowbar, has a higher strength adjustment (the strength stat increases melee damage 1% per point, but 2% for two-handed melee weapons) since both hands are on it, but it's also less damaging, worse at blocking and parrying, and doesn't critically hit as often.

 

Axe: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a moderate chop that deals 30 damage and has a 15% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a heavy swing that deals 60 damage and has a 15% chance to critically hit, but is slower. This weapon is relatively effective against armour. Two-handed. 7.5% slowdown. The heaviest and most damaging melee weapon I know will be in the game, but also one of the slowest and heaviest.

 

Glock 17: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 5 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. 9x19mm Parabellum. 17 round capacity, semi-automatic, fast fire rate, medium recoil, medium accuracy, very low penetration, 2.5% slowdown. Probably the first pistol you'll have access to.

 

USP Match: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 9 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .45 ACP (11.43x23mm). 12 round capacity, semi-automatic, medium fire rate, high recoil, medium accuracy, very low penetration, 2.5% slowdown. More powerful than the Glock, but its ammo is harder to acquire, it recoils more and holds less ammunition.

 

There should be a laser pistol here, but there isn't, because I can't find a decent model. I'm not even being picky, it's just the only things available were regular guns. I would settle for the Fallout model at this point, even though it's oversized and bulky, just to have a good placeholder. For the basics of its performance, it would have high accuracy, no recoil, deal both locational direct damage and non-locational blast damage in a very small radius, have a 50% chance to critically hit, do fairly high damage, have a six second recycle time and hold ten shots. Also, you wouldn't be able to see the pulse, because being able to see it is ridiculous.

 

Colt Python: Slot 5 (special pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 6 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .357 Magnum (9x33mm). 6 round capacity, double-action, medium fire rate, high recoil, medium-high accuracy, low penetration, 3.75% slowdown.

 

Desert Eagle: Slot 5 (special pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 13 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .50 AE (12.7x33mm). 7 round capacity, semi-automatic, slow fire rate, very high recoil, low accuracy, low penetration, 5% slowdown. This thing hits like a hammer, but it's heavy, slow, innacurate and will sprain your wrist when you fire it. And if the game had such a mechanic, would break down in the first magazine because the miniaturized gas mechanism in this thing sucks.

 

Raging Bull: Slot 5 (special pistol.) Primary attack discharges the pistol for 11 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .454 Casull (11.5x35mm). 5 round capacity, double-action, slow fire rate, very high recoil, medium-high accuracy, low penetration, 5% slowdown. This thing isn't as powerful as the Desert Eagle and doesn't hold as many rounds, but it's much more accurate and it has a better critical chance.

 

Taser: Slot 5 (special pistol). Primary attack discharges the taser, latching the prongs onto the target struck. If the target has hard armour with points remaining, the prongs will not stick. Taser is a reloadable variety, prongs are primary ammuntion. Primary fire once prongs shocks the target. This reduces target's movement, melee attacks and accuracy 100% and deals 1 damage, resisted 20% by clothing, 40% by low-profile armour, 60% by light armour and 80% by medium armour. 2.5% slowdown. Has no effect on heavily armoured enemies. Less-lethal weapon.

 

There should be a magnum laser pistol here. See above gripe.

 

MP5: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the submachine gun for 6 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 9x19mm Parabellum. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 800 rounds/minute, low recoil, medium-high accuracy, very low penetration, 7.5% slowdown.

 

MP7: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the submachine gun for 2 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. HK 4.6x30mm. 40 round capacity, fully automatic, 950 rounds/minute, negligible recoil, medium accuracy, low penetration, 5% slowdown.

 

M4: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the carbine for 3 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 5.56x45mm NATO. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 900 rounds/minute, low recoil, medium accuracy, very high penetration, 7.5% slowdown.

 

There should be a laser PDW and a laser carbine, but there isn't, you've heard this already.

 

Spas-12: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the shotgun for 10x3 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 12 gauge 2.5" #1. 6 round capacity, pump action, low fire rate, very low accuracy, extremely low penetration, 12.5% slowdown.

 

Benelli M4: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the shotgun for 10x3 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 12 gauge 2.5" #1. 8 round capacity, semi-automatic, medium fire rate, very low accuracy, extremely low penetration, 10% slowdown. Faster and lighter than the spas, less likely to critically hit.

 

Coach gun: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the shotgun for 10x3 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 12 gauge 2.5" #1. 2 round capacity, break-action, slow fire rate, low accuracy, extremely low penetration, 10% slowdown. Very slow, but accurate and highly likely to critically hit.

 

Ak-47: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 5 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 7.62x39mm Russian. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 600 rounds/minute, medium recoil, medium accuracy, high penetration, 10% slowdown.

 

AR-15: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 3 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 5.56x45mm NATO. 30 round capacity, semi-automatic, fast fire rate, low recoil, high accuracy, very high penetration, 7.5% slowdown.

 

FAL: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 6 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 7.62x51mm NATO. 20 round capacity, semi-automatic, medium fire rate, high recoil, high accuracy, extremely high penetration, 12.5% slowdown.

 

Steyr Scout: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 6 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 7.62x51mm NATO. 5 round capacity, bolt-action, slow fire rate, high recoil, extreme accuracy, extremely high penetration, 7.5% slowdown. Features a scope, uses the block button to activate.

 

There should be an un-scoped bolt-action too, but I can't find any. I tried looking as far back as WWII era rifles, and nothing.

 

And there should be a laser rifle. And it would have dealt the most damage per shot of any ranged weapon in the game, with a 50% chance to critically hit AND been the most accurate weapon in the game, making it the ultimate sniper rifle despite the 6-second recycle time after each shot. And yes, I'm bitter that I don't get to include it.

[BTGBullseye]

A long list of responses to the links

As I said, they are just there for consideration... Also, are you saying that actual medical cases that show these actual injury patterns are wrong? (some of his understanding of firearm physics is obviously off, but that doesn't make the cases cease to be real)

 

5. This link is broken.

It used to be an image for comparing penetration of various rounds after passing through a single interior wall.

 

Here are some other links to the images I was wanting you to look at:

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/WoundProfilesAfterWallBarrier.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/aplorton/mil_rifle_wounds.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/WWII.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/RussianWP.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bullets/308WPcomparison.jpg

https://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7168/identicalke.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/SMKvariability.jpg

 

And this one for test #1 and #3 concerning denim...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-two/

 

Okay, BTG, next question. I don't know if you know either, and for the life of me I can't find anything about this on Valve's developer community, but can I use all the keys on the number bar, just 1-0, or only 1-8? Because I want to make it so you can only have *one* item for each number key, making it easier for the player to switch to the weapon they want, when they want it. (Alternate ammunition types would be below that weapon on each number key, and would be harder to reach, but that's fine.) And how many keys I can use thus directly determines how many equippable items the player can have, excluding special items like the flashlight and riot shield.

Last I checked it was 0-9, but it might require modded binaries for it to show in the HUD.

 

And while I'm at it, here's a quick rundown of all the weapons I know will be in the game (because they're from Half-Life 2 or Black Mesa, or I've found the resources available for free).

I might be able to find a few other models... I know there's several you could use from the SMOD mod.

 

Fists: Slot 1 (fist). Primary attack is a simple punch that deals 4 damage (non-locational) but is good against armour and has an 80% chance to critically hit (5x damage). Secondary attack is a hook that deals 8 damage but is worse against armour and has a 40% chance to critically hit. Fist damage is certainly low, but the weapon makes up for it by being less-lethal, not being classed as a weapon (allowing you to have it where you normally couldn't have a weapon) and resulting in a lesser sentence if you do kill somebody with it. You can block with this weapon (dedicated key, probably click the wheel), block percentage (melee/explosive) is 80/20%. Parry window (a period after starting to block where you take no damage from the first attack and stagger the attacker, staggered enemies cannot attack or defend) is 0.15s. 0% slowdown. Blocking only uses your left arm, and does not disable your primary attack. If I can, having this weapon out will permit the use of the beatdown grapple attack (activate a staggered enemy, armour-skipping, stunlocks enemy, consumes stamina very quickly, less lethal, will probably use the L4D hunter animation). Armour increases the strength of this weapon, increasing damage 25% and block percentage 5/5% for each armour weight above clothing. Perks may increase your parry window with this weapon, first to 0.2s and then to 0.25s.

At 0.15-0.25 seconds, almost nobody is going to see, much less be able to make use of that stagger. If it was 1.5-2.5, then maybe.

Example: Test your reaction time using this, and tell me you can get down to 0.15 seconds reaction. (if you're scoring 15 or under, you're at that timing) http://reflextest.net/reaction/clock.htm

 

Please consider this for all other reaction time events as well.

 

Bowie knife: Slot 2 (melee sidearm). Primary attack is a slash that deals 16 damage but sucks against armour and has a 35% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a stab that deals 12 damage but is better against armour and has a 70% chance to critically hit. Both attacks deal double damage from behind target, criticals from behind deal 10x damage instead of 5x. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 90/10%. Parry window is 0.1s. 1.25% slowdown. You cannot attack while blocking with this weapon.

Sounds good apart from the reaction timing. (you'd have to score under 10 at the link I provided)

 

Baton: Slot 2 (melee sidearm). Primary attack is a quick swipe that deals 3 damage and has a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a moderate chop (as in, it's a chopping motion, it doesn't actually chop things) that deals 6 damage and has a 30% chance to critically hit, but it's slower. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 85%/15%. Parry window is 0.1s. This weapon is highly effective against armour. 1.25% slowdown. Less-lethal weapon.

Sounds good apart from the reaction timing. (you'd have to score under 10 at the link I provided)

 

Crowbar: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a moderate chop that deals 16 damage and has a 25% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a heavy swing that deals 32 damage and has the same 25% chance to critically hit, but is much slower. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 90/10%. Parry window is 0.1s. This weapon is highly effective against armour. 5% slowdown.

Sounds good apart from the reaction timing. (you'd have to score under 10 at the link I provided)

 

Rapier: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a quick swipe that deals 8 damage but sucks against armour and has a 25% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a stab that deals 8 damage, is better against armour, has a 50% chance to critically hit but is slower. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 95/5%. Parry window is 0.2s. This weapon long long reach. The rapier's primary attack is the fastest melee attack in the game, and the rapier is definitely best for parrying, able to parry more easily, blocking almost all damage if you pull too early, and being able to easily land multiple hits during the enemy's stagger animation.

Sounds good apart from the reaction timing and damage. (you'd have to score under 20 at the link I provided) Honestly, a bladed weapon that weighs about the same, doing significantly lower base damage than a baseball bat? (10 would be a better damage value IMO for the quick, and 15-18 for the stab)

 

There should be a friggin' saber right here, but there isn't, because all I can find is Star Wars crap when I search. But if I can find a saber model, dammit it's going in.

I theoretically could make the model myself for you, but for some reason all 3D modeling programs have as complex of controls as possible, even to the point of intentionally making it difficult to use. (if you know of one that isn't that way, let me know)

 

Baseball bat: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a quick swipe that deals 12 damage and has a 15% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a moderate chop that deals 24 damage and has the same 15% chance to critically hit, but isn't as fast. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 85%/15%. Parry window is 0.05s. This weapon is highly effective against armour. Two-handed. 2.5% slowdown. Likely your first melee weapon. Lighter than the crowbar, faster attack than the crowbar, has a higher strength adjustment (the strength stat increases melee damage 1% per point, but 2% for two-handed melee weapons) since both hands are on it, but it's also less damaging, worse at blocking and parrying, and doesn't critically hit as often.

Sounds good apart from the reaction timing. (you'd have to score under 5 at the link I provided)

 

Axe: Slot 3 (melee weapon). Primary attack is a moderate chop that deals 30 damage and has a 15% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack is a heavy swing that deals 60 damage and has a 15% chance to critically hit, but is slower. This weapon is relatively effective against armour. Two-handed. 7.5% slowdown. The heaviest and most damaging melee weapon I know will be in the game, but also one of the slowest and heaviest.

You might also want to look into using a hatchet with about 65-70% damage of this. (it would also make more sense as a concealable weapon)

 

Glock 17: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 5 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. 9x19mm Parabellum. 17 round capacity, semi-automatic, fast fire rate, medium recoil, medium accuracy, very low penetration, 2.5% slowdown. Probably the first pistol you'll have access to.

Can't find anything significantly wrong, apart from excessively low damage. Seriously, this is more in the .22lr range for damage when compared to the melee weapons, which should probly be your first weapon instead of a 9mm. (you can use the same models for a .22lr version, as there are plenty of lookalikes in .22lr, unless you're thinking that that round is completely gone in your timeline)

 

USP Match: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 9 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .45 ACP (11.43x23mm). 12 round capacity, semi-automatic, medium fire rate, high recoil, medium accuracy, very low penetration, 2.5% slowdown. More powerful than the Glock, but its ammo is harder to acquire, it recoils more and holds less ammunition.

You might also want to consider a .40 cal for this slot, (you can use the same model, as they make a .40 S&W version) as the government is the only reason the round exists, (FBI uses it exclusively for sidearms) and you said the gov't is placing the regulations for the rounds.

 

There should be a laser pistol here, but there isn't, because I can't find a decent model. I'm not even being picky, it's just the only things available were regular guns. I would settle for the Fallout model at this point, even though it's oversized and bulky, just to have a good placeholder. For the basics of its performance, it would have high accuracy, no recoil, deal both locational direct damage and non-locational blast damage in a very small radius, have a 50% chance to critically hit, do fairly high damage, have a six second recycle time and hold ten shots. Also, you wouldn't be able to see the pulse, because being able to see it is ridiculous.

Actually, unless it's using a wavelength outside of the visible spectrum, (you would need to have a pulse of significant duration, probly no less than ¼ of a second in order to heat the area sufficiently to do any damage) it would definitely be visible. You also wouldn't have any form of splash damage.

 

Now if you want splash damage, try for a particle beam. (it could have particulate energy splash damage from deflected particles) It's easier to miniaturize, easier to make, more powerful than an equivalently powered laser, and would likely be far closer to the weapon you envisage.

 

Also, you can use anything as a decent placeholder for it... Maybe try the AR2 model, scaled down. (you can even see a laser weapon usage of it in SMOD)

 

Colt Python: Slot 5 (special pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 6 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .357 Magnum (9x33mm). 6 round capacity, double-action, medium fire rate, high recoil, medium-high accuracy, low penetration, 3.75% slowdown.

Overall this is a major downgrade (apart from accuracy) from the 9mm you had as your first weapon. Why would anyone want to use this when they have that?

 

Desert Eagle: Slot 5 (special pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 13 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .50 AE (12.7x33mm). 7 round capacity, semi-automatic, slow fire rate, very high recoil, low accuracy, low penetration, 5% slowdown. This thing hits like a hammer, but it's heavy, slow, innacurate and will sprain your wrist when you fire it. And if the game had such a mechanic, would break down in the first magazine because the miniaturized gas mechanism in this thing sucks.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/ralph/gun-review-magnum-research-iwi-desert-eagle-mark-xix-50ae/

Essentially what it says in there is that the way you hold the gun (a bit like limp-wristing a blowback pistol) is the culprit, not the gun, when it comes to FTF issues. It also says that this should be if not the, then very close to the most accurate pistol in the game. One of the other things it says is that it will definitely be the most powerful semi-auto handgun in the game by a very large margin. (not the measly 4 damage you currently have) It would still be very difficult for the 14 year old to handle it until he/she got used to it. (you could make it a part of a perk for forearm strength that not only does it make it easier to recover from recoil for other weapons, but able to handle this one without receiving damage)

 

Raging Bull: Slot 5 (special pistol.) Primary attack discharges the pistol for 11 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. .454 Casull (11.5x35mm). 5 round capacity, double-action, slow fire rate, very high recoil, medium-high accuracy, low penetration, 5% slowdown. This thing isn't as powerful as the Desert Eagle and doesn't hold as many rounds, but it's much more accurate and it has a better critical chance.

This weapon should have about 5% higher damage than the DE, not less, and and accuracy on-par with the DE. (aka, nearly perfect accuracy at up to 50 yds) It should also have slightly lower recoil.

 

Taser: Slot 5 (special pistol). Primary attack discharges the taser, latching the prongs onto the target struck. If the target has hard armour with points remaining, the prongs will not stick. Taser is a reloadable variety, prongs are primary ammuntion. Primary fire once prongs shocks the target. This reduces target's movement, melee attacks and accuracy 100% and deals 1 damage, resisted 20% by clothing, 40% by low-profile armour, 60% by light armour and 80% by medium armour. 2.5% slowdown. Has no effect on heavily armoured enemies. Less-lethal weapon.

Taser shouldn't have any resistances unless the armor contains metal. (like the chainmail you mentioned) Provided the base armor doesn't, (or plates) it should always have full effect. If it does, it should have no effect. Also, the 'heavy clothing' armor should be immune if the prongs hit the duster, as it will stop them from reaching the skin.

 

There should be a magnum laser pistol here. See above gripe.

You just mean a more powerful single-hand energy weapon, correct? More damage, or more damage and penetration? What?

 

MP5: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the submachine gun for 6 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 9x19mm Parabellum. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 800 rounds/minute, low recoil, medium-high accuracy, very low penetration, 7.5% slowdown.

Other than overall weapon damage issues that I have mentioned, it seems good. (including the slight increase in damage from the 9mm pistol, accounting for the increased barrel length)

 

MP7: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the submachine gun for 2 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. HK 4.6x30mm. 40 round capacity, fully automatic, 950 rounds/minute, negligible recoil, medium accuracy, low penetration, 5% slowdown.

The default ammo for this weapon is AP, and it is not as weak as you seem to think it is. 4 damage with high penetration would be more appropriate.

 

M4: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the carbine for 3 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 5.56x45mm NATO. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 900 rounds/minute, low recoil, medium accuracy, very high penetration, 7.5% slowdown.

As with other, I question your decision of penetration and damage. I would think 7 damage and medium penetration to be more accurate.

 

There should be a laser PDW and a laser carbine, but there isn't, you've heard this already.

Might want to take a look at the models from the Eternal Silence mod. (they're pretty futuristic looking)

 

Spas-12: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the shotgun for 10x3 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 12 gauge 2.5" #1. 6 round capacity, pump action, low fire rate, very low accuracy, extremely low penetration, 12.5% slowdown.

I still take issue with your damage and penetration estimates. (I would think 6 damage and low penetration would be more accurate)

 

Also, is your 'very low' accuracy a 10° cone spread, (a conservatively wide estimate) or is it that the point where your reticle is pointed at isn't where the center of the pattern is going to be?

 

Benelli M4: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the shotgun for 10x3 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 12 gauge 2.5" #1. 8 round capacity, semi-automatic, medium fire rate, very low accuracy, extremely low penetration, 10% slowdown. Faster and lighter than the spas, less likely to critically hit.

See previous for suggestions on damage & penetration.

 

Would probly be better to use the DAO-12 (Armsel Striker) for the shotgun, if you aren't going to go full-auto or short-barrel. (and look at the penetration images I linked as well, it should probly only be low penetration)

 

Coach gun: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the shotgun for 10x3 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 12 gauge 2.5" #1. 2 round capacity, break-action, slow fire rate, low accuracy, extremely low penetration, 10% slowdown. Very slow, but accurate and highly likely to critically hit.

Since it is (by design) a shorter barrel shotgun, I would suggest very low penetration, and 5 damage. Also, a significantly wider cone of fire. (all coach guns I've seen had a 15-20° cone)

 

Ak-47: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 5 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 7.62x39mm Russian. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 600 rounds/minute, medium recoil, medium accuracy, high penetration, 10% slowdown.

I would say 8 damage personally...

 

AR-15: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 3 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 5.56x45mm NATO. 30 round capacity, semi-automatic, fast fire rate, low recoil, high accuracy, very high penetration, 7.5% slowdown.

I suggest exact same stats as the M4, except semi-auto only. (that is what it is anyways)

 

FAL: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 6 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 7.62x51mm NATO. 20 round capacity, semi-automatic, medium fire rate, high recoil, high accuracy, extremely high penetration, 12.5% slowdown.

I'd say 15-20 damage from this. (1-2 shots should take out anything that doesn't have plate armor)

 

Steyr Scout: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 6 damage and a 40% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 7.62x51mm NATO. 5 round capacity, bolt-action, slow fire rate, high recoil, extreme accuracy, extremely high penetration, 7.5% slowdown. Features a scope, uses the block button to activate.

Same suggestion as mentioned with the FAL. You could also put an SVD here... (the model and everything is in the SMOD mod)

 

There should be an un-scoped bolt-action too, but I can't find any. I tried looking as far back as WWII era rifles, and nothing.

Adding a scope is easy, (https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Adding_a_Scope%20%20https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Adding_a_Dynamic_Scope) removing one from a model is hard... You can also use the former method to add iron sights mode to any weapon if they are included on the model. It's even usable as a third sighting mode, it's been done in SMOD, and I've previously used models from the Eternal Silence mod in SMOD with added iron sights. (I made the mod of the mod myself, all it took was 7 altered lines in a single text file to change to the models, sounds, and ammo to the ES mod's weapons instead of the original AR2, and an extra 2 lines to line up the iron sights)

 

And there should be a laser rifle. And it would have dealt the most damage per shot of any ranged weapon in the game, with a 50% chance to critically hit AND been the most accurate weapon in the game, making it the ultimate sniper rifle despite the 6-second recycle time after each shot. And yes, I'm bitter that I don't get to include it.

You can include it, you just need to find a placeholder model until you can find a permanent model.

 

Don't leave weapons out simply because you can't find a model for them yet, or modifications to weapons because you think it needs models you haven't found yet. (I'm sure I could muddle my way through a modeling program enough to chop the sights off stuff for you to have sights and no sights) You can also do many different ammo types without issue using copy+paste and changing a couple variables variables. (for those weapons that have multiple ammo types for the same model, like the Glocks and the DE, or even the FAL and AR-15 [turning it into the AR-10])

 

Final recommendation: Consider building your mod on the foundation of SMOD. (as it already has many changes of the likes you seem to be desiring)

[Seattleite]

It used to be an image for comparing penetration of various rounds after passing through a single interior wall.

 

Here are some other links to the images I was wanting you to look at:

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/WoundProfilesAfterWallBarrier.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/aplorton/mil_rifle_wounds.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/WWII.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/RussianWP.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bullets/308WPcomparison.jpg

https://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7168/identicalke.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/SMKvariability.jpg

 

And this one for test #1 and #3 concerning denim...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-two/

 

I just got back from the DMV, I'm tired, I'll read these later.

 

EDIT:

Okay, I left the DMV hours ago. But I didn't have bus fare, so it took me a while to get here.

 

Last I checked it was 0-9, but it might require modded binaries for it to show in the HUD.

 

Okay good. So I can have 8 for explosives (AOTM: frag grenade, flash-bang, pipe bomb, molotov, CS grenade, smoke grenade), 9 for healing items (painkillers, first-aid kit, adrenalin shot) and 0 for needs items (bottled water, energy drink, coffee, etcetera). Good.

 

.

I might be able to find a few other models... I know there's several you could use from the SMOD mod.

 

If you can, that'd be great. Because I was looking quite a bit through various Source-related modding communities, mostly Gmod communities, and found nothing. And if you do, tell me where you found them, so I can find more on my own.

 

At 0.15-0.25 seconds, almost nobody is going to see, much less be able to make use of that stagger. If it was 1.5-2.5, then maybe.

Example: Test your reaction time using this, and tell me you can get down to 0.15 seconds reaction. (if you're scoring 15 or under, you're at that timing) http://reflextest.net/reaction/clock.htm

 

I just got home from the DMV. I am tired, and I've already had three ciders and a glass of Chardonnay. And I STILL got a 9 on my second try. So HA.

 

EDIT:

After three more ciders and two more glasses of Chardonnay, PERFECT SCORE. HA.

 

EDIT2:

Also, I just did ten in a row an averaged it.

 

55, 10, 15, 19, 21, 8, 5, 11, 6, 7. I averaged 15.7. To remind you, while I'm not drunk, I'm not sober either. And I bet you anything I'd average under 10 if I was sober right now.

 

Also, the parry windows in the Souls series are about this length. That's what I based the parry windows off of, because I'm a Souls gamer. DSII has a parry window of about 0.2-0.3 seconds (depending on weapons used, rapiers had longer parry windows than shields and so forth) and people said that was too easy. In DSI, the parry windows were about 0.1-0.15 seconds. In Demon's Souls they were about 0.15-0.2 seconds. In BB they have guns that stagger, somehow, instead of dealing decent damage, somehow, that you use in much the same way as parrying. And the windows are all about 0.2 seconds. And players have NO problems doing this, and frequently complain about how "easy" it is to parry in the Souls games.

 

Please consider this for all other reaction time events as well.

 

Considered, snickered at, and grabbed another glass of Chardonnay because of.

 

Sounds good apart from the reaction timing and damage. (you'd have to score under 20 at the link I provided) Honestly, a bladed weapon that weighs about the same, doing significantly lower base damage than a baseball bat? (10 would be a better damage value IMO for the quick, and 15-18 for the stab)

 

Remember, this is a rapier. It's a very light, cut and thrust sword. It's never done good damage and it never will, this is a historically verifiable fact since people would frequently survive losing duels with these weapons and many people took a lot of stabs to go down, it's mostly a good weapon because it's excellent on the defensive side. And it's no different here. It's easy to parry with, if you pull too early it's still a 95% block, and an enemy staggered is staggered long enough for this thing to get in 2-4 cuts or 1-2 stabs. Add on how long the reach is, and it's probably the best melee weapon in the game as long as your enemy doesn't have a gun.

 

I theoretically could make the model myself for you, but for some reason all 3D modeling programs have as complex of controls as possible, even to the point of intentionally making it difficult to use. (if you know of one that isn't that way, let me know)

 

I don't, unfortunately. But ideally, it would look like a USMC ceremonial saber. The difference is, in this setting, USMC ceremonial sabers are battle ready and still carried by officers as an extra side-arm. And a... "motivational device". (Drawing your sword tends to get people to do what you want quickly and without question. Especially if you then point it at them and threaten to cut their throat if they don't follow orders.)

 

You might also want to look into using a hatchet with about 65-70% damage of this. (it would also make more sense as a concealable weapon)

 

I looked for a hatchet and came up empty. I also looked for an E-Tool for the marines, and came up empty. I found a shovel, but only in the TF2 cartoony style or full-sized. So marines are going to be using knives if they run out of ammo... But then, a marine with a Ka-Bar is still pretty damned dangerous.

 

Can't find anything significantly wrong, apart from excessively low damage. Seriously, this is more in the .22lr range for damage when compared to the melee weapons, which should probly be your first weapon instead of a 9mm. (you can use the same models for a .22lr version, as there are plenty of lookalikes in .22lr, unless you're thinking that that round is completely gone in your timeline)

 

Well, I can include a .22, probably a Ruger because I have the model, but the Glock would probably be your first pistol because it's just so damned common. And actually, I can provide a .22 pretty early on, even leaving one in the orphanage basement in the hands of a semi-intelligent zombie. (It would take a lot of setting info for that sentence to make sense, but I can if you want.)

 

As for the low damage, no. Melee weapons are non-locational and had to have their damage increased to compensate. See, most melee attacks would hit the chest. We can agree on that, right? And the chest has a 2x damage multiplier in this game. It's also halfway between the abdomen and chest, where hits that didn't meet the chest would normally land. So I doubled melee damage to compensate. If you want, think of that 5 as 10, because if you're hitting the chest that's what it'll amount to. Also, this is a FMJ round. All the damage and penetration values assume FMJ rounds.

 

You might also want to consider a .40 cal for this slot, (you can use the same model, as they make a .40 S&W version) as the government is the only reason the round exists, (FBI uses it exclusively for sidearms) and you said the gov't is placing the regulations for the rounds.

 

And the .45 is a favourite since the 1910s and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And with this setting, a 10mm Glock 20 is more likely to be in the regular pistols category than a .40 is. (Significantly better penetration, slightly more damage.)

 

Actually, unless it's using a wavelength outside of the visible spectrum, (you would need to have a pulse of significant duration, probly no less than ¼ of a second in order to heat the area sufficiently to do any damage) it would definitely be visible. You also wouldn't have any form of splash damage.

 

1. Military lasers are infrared. So are these.

2. The pistol is 100 megawatts for one millisecond. That means it dumps the energy of 24 grams of TNT so quickly it can't possibly generate anything but an explosion. It's not a very big explosion, but it's still significant.

 

And the laser would definitely be a decent weapon in-game. It's the strongest pistol (10 locational, 10 blast damage) except for the larger laser, it has very long range, with armour penetration comparable to the molotov. One critical hit to the head would result in instant death as the laser blasts in their skull and scrambles the front half of their brain. The long recycle time and small capacity offset this, of course, but it's still a good weapon at a distance.

 

Now if you want splash damage, try for a particle beam. (it could have particulate energy splash damage from deflected particles) It's easier to miniaturize, easier to make, more powerful than an equivalently powered laser, and would likely be far closer to the weapon you envisage.

 

Except that a free electron laser is both lower-tech and easier to miniaturize, and operating with a very short pulse blows shit up just fine.

 

Also, you can use anything as a decent placeholder for it... Maybe try the AR2 model, scaled down. (you can even see a laser weapon usage of it in SMOD)

 

Yeah, but it's going to irk me, because I know the pulse rifle and how it performs. And as for the weapon itself, it would basically be a pistol with a cylinder instead of the side, with a smaller opening where the last lens is at the outside. Also, the lens should be covered when not in use, to prevent dust from accumulating on it.

 

Overall this is a major downgrade (apart from accuracy) from the 9mm you had as your first weapon. Why would anyone want to use this when they have that?

 

1. Better accuracy.

2. Slightly higher damage.

3. 40% critical chance instead of 30%. Crits are a beastly 5x damage, it's important just what your chance is.

4. It's in a different slot, you can have both.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/ralph/gun-review-magnum-research-iwi-desert-eagle-mark-xix-50ae/

Essentially what it says in there is that the way you hold the gun (a bit like limp-wristing a blowback pistol) is the culprit, not the gun, when it comes to FTF issues. It also says that this should be if not the, then very close to the most accurate pistol in the game. One of the other things it says is that it will definitely be the most powerful semi-auto handgun in the game by a very large margin. (not the measly 4 damage you currently have) It would still be very difficult for the 14 year old to handle it until he/she got used to it. (you could make it a part of a perk for forearm strength that not only does it make it easier to recover from recoil for other weapons, but able to handle this one without receiving damage)

 

1. It's fucked by crappy ergonomics, immense weight and an easily gummed up mini-gas mechanism. All reduce the accuracy of the weapon. (In case you couldn't tell, I fucking hate this gun.)

2. ...4? It's 13, dude. How can you get 4 and 13 confused? It IS the most powerful semi-auto. In fact, it's the most powerful handgun of any variety in the entire game.

3. You're 14. And being 14 changes a few things. Like your ability to handle a pistol that weighs damn near two kilos and kicks like a mother fucker.

 

This weapon should have about 5% higher damage than the DE, not less, and and accuracy on-par with the DE. (aka, nearly perfect accuracy at up to 50 yds) It should also have slightly lower recoil.

 

I've never fired a Raging Bull, but I have fired a Super Redhawk, the gun I WANTED to put in this slot but couldn't find a model for. And it's really, really accurate, yes. Kicks hard enough to sprain the PC's wrist, might just about jump out of their hands with that much recoil, but it's really accurate the first time. But as much as its damage is incredible... It's still a .45, in all honestly. The Desert Eagle is a .50. It exceeds the Casull, which I must remind you is my favourite revolver round of all time and I am biased FOR, not against, in both bore and muzzle energy.

 

And for in-game, this gun is probably a better weapon at most ranges than the Desert Eagle because the PC can't hit the broad side of a barn with the Desert Eagle. This gun may deal less damage and hold fewer shots, but it's much more accurate and is more likely to critically hit. And hell, if I take your suggestion for alternate ammunition, that would mean a .454 hollow-point is an option. Which is a scary thought.

 

Taser shouldn't have any resistances unless the armor contains metal. (like the chainmail you mentioned) Provided the base armor doesn't, (or plates) it should always have full effect. If it does, it should have no effect. Also, the 'heavy clothing' armor should be immune if the prongs hit the duster, as it will stop them from reaching the skin.

 

Dude, the prongs won't reach the skin through even fairly rudimentary armour. The lack of skin contact is what gives the resistance. I only don't make it totally worthless against anybody wearing any more than regular clothing (which is the realistic outcome, by the way) because that would mean there was no reason to carry it.

 

You just mean a more powerful single-hand energy weapon, correct? More damage, or more damage and penetration? What?

 

Twice the slowdown, deals twice as much damage, otherwise the same.

 

Note: Would be almost overpowered against a single enemy. One critical hit to the chest or head and they're done. Even a non-critical to the head would incapacitate and mortally wound them. That said, against multiple enemies, the six second recycle time could get you killed. And the small capacity isn't doing you any favours if you, say, hit them in the arm and pretty much waste your shot.

 

Other than overall weapon damage issues that I have mentioned, it seems good. (including the slight increase in damage from the 9mm pistol, accounting for the increased barrel length)

 

That's why the damage is up, yes. And the critical chance is down because it can be hard to get good placement with an automatic. And this is my favourite of all the 6-slot items.

 

The default ammo for this weapon is AP, and it is not as weak as you seem to think it is. 4 damage with high penetration would be more appropriate.

 

1. Yeah, it really is this weak. It's 4.6mm. If you insist on imperial, that's .17 calibre. It's like getting shot with a pellet gun, just going a bit faster.

2. I assume FMJ ammunition for all listed weapons.

3. Even with armour piercing, it's still a bit short of any of the rifles. I feel I need to explain the penetration values.

 

Basically, to get the resistances, I assigned two base resistance values to all the clothing options in-game. One for bullets, and a lower one for other threats. This was 40/20% for clothing, 80/40% for low-profile armour, 120/60% for light armour, 160/80% for medium armour and 200/100% for heavy armour. I then assigned a "penetration" value to each weapon. Then I calculated the resistance as base resistance minus penetration, and I'll assign a multiplier in the convars to achieve this effect.

 

"Extremely low" is for the shotguns and means -20. "Very low" is for the pistols means -40. "Low" is for the high-penetration pistols means -60. "High" is for the kalashnikov and means -160. "Very high" is for the AR-15 and M4 and means -180. "Extremely high" is for the FAL and Scout, and means -200. For armour-piercing ammunition, double these penetration values. For hollow-points, halve them.

 

For example, the MP5 gets -40. Light armour has 120. So light armour resists 80%. That means the convar multiplier will be 0.2. This MP7 gets -60, light armour has 120, so it'll be resisted 60% by a convar multiplier of 0.4. This means against light armour, the MP5 deals 1.2 and the MP7 deals 0.8. This is before placement and criticals are taken into account, of course.

 

As with other, I question your decision of penetration and damage. I would think 7 damage and medium penetration to be more accurate.

 

And I don't. The 5.56 has the bore of a .22, and moving twice as fast doesn't make up for it, especially since its stupid boat-tailed spitzer design ensures it punches through leaving the tiniest hole possible. It has terrible stopping power, and that's never going to change, no matter how much you might want it to.

 

Might want to take a look at the models from the Eternal Silence mod. (they're pretty futuristic looking)

 

I'll look, but remember I can only use resources if the creator gives the okay. That's why I've been looking around Gmod communities. I haven't found anybody who has made something for Gmod and not given permission to use the resources for other things.

 

I still take issue with your damage and penetration estimates. (I would think 6 damage and low penetration would be more accurate)

 

No, because this is 12-gauge 2.5" #1, not 8-gauge 3.5" 0000. Individual #1 pellets don't do much damage (they're 7.62mm) and don't penetrate worth a damn (they're spherical), and with this being a 2.5" shell they do even less of each.

 

Also, is your 'very low' accuracy a 10° cone spread, (a conservatively wide estimate) or is it that the point where your reticle is pointed at isn't where the center of the pattern is going to be?

 

Accuracy is just spread. And the exact values are TBD. At this point it just means "less accurate than low, more accurate than extremely low". And remember, your character's lack of experience and training makes the weapon less accurate. And for the record, there should be a sawn-off pump shotgun and a lupara available as 6-slot and 5-slot weapons that would have extremely low and shameful accuracy, but I can't find any I like other than the Counter-Strike sawn off that I'm not sure I can use.

 

But even though it's all TBD, here's the values I was thinking of for spread:

Perfect: 0°

Extremely high: 1°

Very high: 2°

High: 3°

Medium-high: 4°

Medium: 5°

Medium-low: 7°

Low: 9°

Very low: 11°

Extremely low: 13°

Shameful: 15°

 

This would mean an 11° cone for the Spas. Which is about right, since it's being fired by somebody with no weapons experience.

 

Would probly be better to use the DAO-12 (Armsel Striker) for the shotgun, if you aren't going to go full-auto or short-barrel. (and look at the penetration images I linked as well, it should probly only be low penetration)

 

The Benelli M4 is common amongst both civilian and military users and is the standard shotgun of the marine corps. This setting didn't change that.

 

Since it is (by design) a shorter barrel shotgun, I would suggest very low penetration, and 5 damage. Also, a significantly wider cone of fire. (all coach guns I've seen had a 15-20° cone)

 

For a double-barrel shotgun to be at all useful in-game, it had to have a tight choke. And yes, you can get a short double-barrel with a tight choke. But I suppose I could loosen the chose a bit and just up the rate of fire so you can fire both barrels as fast as you can double-click and have THAT be the advantage.

 

As for the damage, shotguns really don't get a significant ballistic advantage out of a longer barrel because the gas can pass by the pellets as they spread out down the barrel, and the powder burns really quickly. It helps narrow the shot pattern, but that's about it. Well, unless you're firing a slug. Then barrel length is hugely important.

 

I would say 8 damage personally...

 

And I would say no, personally...

 

I suggest exact same stats as the M4, except semi-auto only. (that is what it is anyways)

 

The AR-15 is more accurate than the M4, which is one performance change I made. The other change, critical chance, comes from it being semi-auto instead of full-auto. Both of those are completely justified changes.

 

I'd say 15-20 damage from this. (1-2 shots should take out anything that doesn't have plate armor)

 

Except that the rifle really isn't that powerful. The 7.62x51 isn't that different from the 7.62x39, except it moves a little bit faster. And if you give them the same powder, as is the case here, that difference is pretty marginal as the 7.62x39 moves noticeably faster when loaded with the same powder as the 7.62x51. You use it in-game because it's semi-auto, accurate, ignores all soft armour and breaks hard armour quickly at most ranges.

 

Same suggestion as mentioned with the FAL. You could also put an SVD here... (the model and everything is in the SMOD mod)

 

Well, I like the SVD, but I can't see it being present in large numbers in Texas. I mean, the kalashnikov was only present because rednecks LOVE it. (And it's one of the few loves I share with rednecks. I mean, the only other thing they love that I also love is whiskey. And even there, we disagree on the type of whiskey.)

 

Don't leave weapons out simply because you can't find a model for them yet, or modifications to weapons because you think it needs models you haven't found yet. (I'm sure I could muddle my way through a modeling program enough to chop the sights off stuff for you to have sights and no sights) You can also do many different ammo types without issue using copy+paste and changing a couple variables variables. (for those weapons that have multiple ammo types for the same model, like the Glocks and the DE, or even the FAL and AR-15 [turning it into the AR-10])

 

I get how easy ammo types are, but I'm going to try and keep it to four for each weapon. Regular, armour piercing (double penetration, half damge), hollow point (half penetration, double damage) and one special one (different for each weapon). The difference is shotguns, where it's #1 buck, #2 bird (80x1 damage, no penetration), flechette (5x3 damage, quadruple penetration, 1/3 damage against hard armour) and dragon's breath (expensive, 10x2 damage, no penetration, sets targets on fire for 10x1 damage per second for 10 seconds). Now, I considered including a slug, but the slug would have been severely overpowered. So I'm leaving it out. If I can think of a way to balance something that would be as powerful as an entire load of flechettes, get the same soft armour penetration and not be weak against hard armour, I'll add it as a fifth ammo type for shotguns.

 

Final recommendation: Consider building your mod on the foundation of SMOD. (as it already has many changes of the likes you seem to be desiring)

 

I was going to build it on the foundation of regular ol' Half-Life 2, but okay.

 

I'm going to add a few more to the list. The F2000, UMP-45, Glock 20 and Ruger Mk. II. Also adding some explosives (8-slot), healing items (9-slot), needs items (10-slot), flashlights (F key) and offhand weapons (G key).

 

Ruger Mk. III: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 2 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. 9x19mm Parabellum. 10 round capacity, semi-automatic, very fast fire rate, negligible recoil, high accuracy, extremely low penetration, 2.5% slowdown. The most accurate ballistic pistol in the game, fires as fast as you pull the trigger and the recoil (while present) is so low as to be safely ignored at close range. I normally don't mention availability, but .22 ammo is exceptionally common and extremely cheap, and you can get the pistol and an extra hundred rounds for free in the orphanage basement. If you can just take it from the semi-intelligent zombie that's firing it at you.

 

Five-Seven: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 2 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. FN 5.7x28mm. 20 round capacity, semi-automatic, very fast fire rate, low recoil, medium-high accuracy, low penetration, 1.25% slowdown. Fastest and lightest pistol in the game, does well against low-profile and especially light armour, and since it fires as fast as you can click, it's not as weak as it appears. Still, not a good weapon for a serious fight.

 

Glock 20: Slot 4 (pistol). Primary attack discharges the pistol for 7 damage and a 30% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack throws a left hook with your fist. You can block with your left arm while using this weapon. You can fire this weapon while blocking, but it is less accurate. 10x25mm Auto. 15 round capacity, semi-automatic, fast fire rate, medium recoil, medium-high accuracy, very low penetration, 2.5% slowdown. Compared to the glock, less available ammunition and lower capacity, but more power.

 

UMP-45: Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Slot 6 (secondary weapon). Primary attack discharges the submachine gun for 11 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 6 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. .45 ACP (11.43x23mm). 25 round capacity, fully automatic, 600 rounds/minute, medium recoil, medium accuracy, very low penetration, 7.5% slowdown. Compared to the MP5, it has a smaller capacity, a slower rate of fire and higher recoil, but much more power.

 

F2000: Slot 7 (primary weapon). Primary attack discharges the rifle for 3 damage and a 20% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack strikes with the weapon's stock for 12 damage. You cannot block with this weapon, and it takes both hands. 5.56x45mm NATO. 30 round capacity, fully automatic, 900 rounds/minute, negligible recoil, medium accuracy, very high penetration, 10% slowdown. Compared to the M4, it's heavier but has lower recoil. Compared to the AR-15, it's also less accurate but fires faster.

 

Fragmentation grenade: Slot 8 (explosive). Primary attack throws the grenade, secondary attack throws a left hook. The explosion deals 120 damage, falling off over distance up to 12 metres, poor armour penetration. Maximum 4. Flies nice and far, has a good blast radius, strong enough to incapacitate and fatally wound in one sufficiently close-ranged explosion should the enemy not have a resistance.

 

Pipe bomb: Slot 8 (explosive). Primary attack throws the pipe bomb, secondary attack throws a left hook. The explosion deals 160 damage, falling off over distance up to 8 metres, better armour penetration. Maximum 2. This pipe bomb is a bit large to throw a long distance or carry many off, but it's very strong.

 

Molotov cocktail: Slot 8 (explosive). Primary attack throws the molotov, secondary attack throws a left hook. The explosion spreads a fire that does 20 damage per second for 10 seconds, within a 5 metre radius, great armour penetration. Maximum 2. This molotov is very well made and does very well against armour, as without hard armour even a heavily armoured enemy will be incapacitated and mortally wounded by it before it burns out.

 

Flashbang grenade: Slot 8 (explosive). Primary attack throws the flashbang, secondary attack throws a left hook. The explosion deals 80 damage, falling off over distance, within a 2-metre radius. The flash blinds and deafens the player temporarily, stuns NPCs. Less-lethal weapon, reduced criminal charges for its use. Max 4.

 

CS gas grenade: Slot 8 (explosive). Primary attack throws the gas grenade, secondary attack throws a left hook. The explosion spreads a noxious gas that reduces visibility within ten metres and blurs vision, dealing less-lethal damage at a rate of 3 per second for one minute. As it is not resisted by armour, an enemy would be incapacitated non-lethally after 34 seconds, and the full duration would leave them close to death. (Don't let the "less lethal" designation fool you. Tear gas is poison, and it will kill you if you breathe in enough of it.) Those that don't will have their vision blurred for one minute after exposure ends, which reduces NPC and player accuracy and makes detection difficult. Less-lethal weapon, reduced criminal charges for its use. Max 4.

 

Smoke grenade: Slot 8 (explosive). Primary attack throws the smoke grenade, secondary attack throws a left hook. The explosion spreads a thick black smoke, stopping all vision within ten metres, dealing less-lethal damage at a rate of 5 per second for one minute. Twenty seconds is incapacitating, forty is lethal. (What did you expect? Smoke inhalation would be bad enough, this smoke is also burning hot and toxic.) Max 4.

 

Painkillers: Slot 9 (healing item). Primary attack takes one dose of painkillers, temporarily restoring 10 health. Multiple doses don't stack, but you lose temporary hitpoints first when damaged and additional doses will refill them. These temporary hitpoints degrade at one point per minute. Painkillers do not work on a downed character. Secondary attack throws a left hook. Activate an ally with this out to give them a dose of painkillers. Max 8. You may have all three healing items equipped to slot 9.

 

First-aid kit: Slot 9 (healing item). Primary attack heals oneself, which takes a bit of time but restores 10 health permanently. You may use multiple first-aid kits should you find more. Secondary attack throws a left hook. Activate an ally with this out to use it on them. You cannot use a first-aid kit when down, but you can use them on somebody who is down to revive them with 1 health. Max 1. You may have all three healing items equipped to slot 9.

 

Adrenalin shot: Slot 9 (healing item). Primary attack injects the adrenalin, temporarily restoring 10 health. Multiple doses don't stack, but you lose temporary hitpoints first when damaged and additional doses will refill them. These temporary hitpoints degrade at one point per minute. Secondary attack throws a left hook. Activate an ally with out to give them the shot. Only works on player characters. You can use an adrenalin shot on yourself while downed, temporarily reviving yourself and giving you a better chance at survival. Max 4. You may have all three healing items equipped to slot 9.

 

I'm not going to cover slot 10 (needs items) right now. But I can say that, like slot 9, you may have all slot 10 items equipped to slot 10. This makes it a bit harder to get the one you want out quickly, but that's alright given the nature of the items. I don't think you'll ever be frantically scrambling for your water bottle, do you?

 

Maglite: F key (Flashlight). Press "F" to bring out the flashlight. Primary attack strikes with the flashlight for 16 damage and a 35% chance to critically hit. Secondary attack toggles the light on and off. Striking with it will temporarily take the light off of where you're looking, interfering with visibility. You can block with this weapon, block percentage is 90%/10%. Parry window is 0.05s. (Good luck parrying with a flashlight.) Consumes battery power Can be taken into weapon-free areas, despite being usable as a lethal weapon. You should find this in the orphanage, right outside the door to the basement. Batteries can be found outside the door to the collapsed older girls' dormitory, an alternate path into the basement.

 

Riot shield: G key (Offhand). Press "G" to equip or unequip the riot shield. This weapon takes space in your left hand, and puts itself between you and enemy bullets. Bullet impacts on the riot shield deal reduced damage, dependent on their penetration. (Completely stops buckshot, .22, 9mm, 10mm and .45 rounds. Reduces standard .357, .454, .50 AE, 4.6mm and 5.7mm rounds by 2/3, 7.62x39mm by 25%, 5.56x45mm by 22.5% and 7.62x51mm by 20%.) Blocking with the riot shield puts it between you and your enemies' bullets and counts as blocking explosives and melee, you cannot attack with any weapon while blocking with this weapon, overrides the normal blocking ability of whatever weapon you are carrying in your right hand. Block percentage is 80%/40%. Cannot parry. 25% slowdown. This thing is big, heavy and clunky, but it's good to have if your enemies start shooting or throwing hand grenades.

 

Offhand knife: G key (Offhand). Identical to the bowie knife, but in the off hand. Primary attack uses the primary of your main weapon, secondary attack stabs with this weapon. Overrides the blocking ability of your primary weapon. You can block with this weapon and attack with your other weapon at the same time. 1.25% slowdown.

 

There should be a parrying dagger here, but there isn't. Would have been useful, you could block well with one while attacking with your main weapon, and should you parry an enemy there wouldn't be a delay before you could start attacking with your main, allowing you to get in more hits while they're staggered. The knife can do all that, it just has a lower block percentage.

 

Another quick, important note: Enemies don't get armour points. The reason why is mostly because it's a bitch to give NPCs armour points. I can't even find a tutorial on how to do it, and I don't know if anybody ever has. Instead, NPCs will get health equal to 1/2 the armour points of their suit, and resist 2x the normal amount on the hard armoured body parts. For instance, a cop with hard plates and a helmet would get +75 health and take 30% less damage on their torso and head. And while you have an important underlayer of health (called integrity, coded much the same as the permanent health in Left 4 Dead, except it depletes at 1/second while you're out of health and is a royal pain to heal as only a hospital can do it) NPCs just have an extra hundred health, collapse when their health reaches 100 and begin taking damage at 1/second as long as their health is 100 or below. (Which does still mean you can just incapacitate them and wait for them to die, unless you're using a less-lethal weapon.)

 

Enemies also don't have stamina, and can do stamina-draining actions such as sprinting and blocking infinitely. To compensate, all stamina-draining actions are less effective for them. They only sprint at 1.5x normal run speed (6m/s) instead of your 2x normal run speed (8m/s), block percentages for them are lowered so that they take twice as much damage (95% becomes 90%, 90% becomes 80%, 85% becomes 70% and 80% becomes 60%) and parrying only stops them from taking damage, it doesn't stagger anybody. (NPC parries can't stagger other NPCs or the player. The player couldn't be staggered anyway, but a successful parry by another player would have stopped them from using the parried weapon for a second, and an NPC parrying them won't even do that.) NPCs also starts taking damage right away under water.

 

Oh, and a quick thing I'm certain you already figured out: Stamina is the renamed aux power meter. You use it to sprint, block, go underwater without taking damage and all that. Almost everything that drains it constantly drain 1/second. It regenerates 1/second when not in use if you are walking or standing still. Items can restore it much faster without you needing to slow down. All pretty basic.

[BTGBullseye]

Well, from the sound of it, you have your mind made up about everything and don't really want any input from anyone else if it contradicts your current assumptions. (eg. a DE that clogs in a supposedly urban environment before you even fire it, or ignoring round tumbling for increasing damage, or ignoring real-life armor penetration statistics)

 

About the hatchet, I easily found a model in the workshop. (it said that you only had to give credit for the model to be able to use it, as is normal)

 

Concerning enemy armor, It's already in SMOD, and is easily editable. (try playing the mod before anything else)

[Seattleite]

Well, from the sound of it, you have your mind made up about everything and don't really want any input from anyone else if it contradicts your current assumptions. (eg. a DE that clogs in a supposedly urban environment before you even fire it, or ignoring round tumbling for increasing damage, or ignoring real-life armor penetration statistics)

 

And you are not listening well enough to hear why.

 

First off, I have experience with the Desert Eagle. It's not innacurate, I FUCKING KNOW THAT. What it is, and I'm not including in the game because I don't have somebody else's code to blatantly rip off, is unreliable. Extremely, unforgivably unreliable. No, it shouldn't give you *any* problems the moment you get it. You should be able to fire it a decent number of times, but eventually it'll flat-out stop working.

 

But you know what, BTG. You may not be listening to my explanations on this, but I *am* listening to your objections. And I HAVE looked, from the moment you brought it up, for information on how to do weapon condition and jamming in Source to make it more realistic. But I can't find any such information. All I got was somebody whining about an animation "jamming" in Counter-Strike.

 

How about this? If I can find a way to include such a mechanic, I'll use it and the Desert Eagle will be portrayed realistically. If not, I just won't include the Desert Eagle in the game. Does that work for you?

 

Because I am NOT having another game portraying the Desert Eagle as the perfect paragon of pistols. It will NOT happen, because I have enough experience with the thing to know it's a complete piece of shit nobody in their right mind would ever use. I used to go to a shooting range with my friends abotu once every two weeks for ten years, I have seen no less than four people bring a Desert Eagle to the shooting range, and every goddamn one of them had problems with it.

 

The first one it worked fine for a while, until he'd fired about thirty rounds. Then it hit a dud round, got stuck and just would not cycle the dud out. Now, sure, it stopped because of the round. But ANY other gun this would have been a two-second distraction, but this gun had to get a new ejector spring. And did I mention that it was brand new? Because it was.

 

The second one fired fine the first three times, the fourth round flew so far off it hit the target in the lane to the right of him. And I should mention that this guy owned a gun store, he was a regular here and knew what he was doing, that miss was not his fault, it was the gun. The fifth round jammed, and the sixth round shot into the ceiling. He didn't fire the seventh. He took it back home, next time we saw him he told us the rifling had been stripped. The weapon had first been fired three months ago.

 

The third one (a .357 version, if that's relevant) worked fine for most of the day, until after about sixty rounds it started jamming. And jamming. And jamming. He fired another thirty or so rounds out of it, a dozen of them jammed, and he game up and went home.

 

The fourth one was a fucking disaster. And seriously, read this before you sing the praises of the Desert Eagle. We had the wealthiest person to ever enter the range one day, showed up with a gun store owner in tow, with a brand new .50 AE Desert Eagle. He left with a burnt hand. The gun worked fine for most of the day, he fired over a hundred rounds with only a few minor jams and some accuracy issues later that we confirmed (by having other, more knowledgeable people fire it) were the gun and not him. Soon, the gun started jamming every couple rounds. We all knew that was coming from the last three times, I casually mentioned it's just how that gun is, but he tuned me out because I was 13. Then it stopped cycling entirely. And it was smoking. Now, the gun store owner, one of my friends and the range owner all went over and tried to help, and pretty soon realized the thing was HOT. There was previously unburnt powder BURNING IN THE GODDAMN BARREL. They told him not to fire that thing until he had it checked out, because that's just not safe. He didn't listen to them. He waited for it to cool down, it cycled again, and then he loaded in a fresh magazine and started shooting. It was so wildly inaccurate he wasn't even hitting in his own lane anymore, and then it exploded.

 

Let me repeat that. THE GUN FUCKING EXPLODED. Apparently the barrel had been warped from the heat, and the bullet got stuck. And it blew burning powder out the ejector. I didn't see much past that because everybody was rushing to him to make sure he was okay, and other than a burnt hand he was, but I'm pretty sure I saw pieces on the floor.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

As for the rest, I gave a very simple explanation, that apparently you didn't realize applied to rifles too. I'll take the blame on this one for not specifically mentioning it did. All the rounds in-game are made to the exact same manufacturing standards, including rifle rounds. That means all FMJ ammunition is a boat-tailed spitzer round, with the same powder as every other. That's the best kind of round out there if you're looking for range, and the best short of a dedicated armour-piercing round for armour penetration. And if the standards are being set for military use (which ALWAYS affects the civilian market) and the main concerns are foreign military opponents with body armour, that makes perfect sense.

 

I already said there'd be alternate ammunition types. Some of them can yaw, but a FMJ round specifically designed to be stable so it'll reliably hit a target at long range and penetrate soft armour at most distances is a round that will never yaw. And yes, the second (or third, if the DE gets in) most damaging round in the game is a frangible round for the 7.62x51. It has shit penetration, and won't hurt somebody in medium or heavy armour, but against a target in no armour it deals 30 points of damage. That is a LOT in this game. A critical hit to the abdomen will stop somebody in one, a critical to the chest or any hit to the head will do it as well.

 

About the hatchet, I easily found a model in the workshop. (it said that you only had to give credit for the model to be able to use it, as is normal)

 

What keyword did you use? Because I searched "hatchet" and got nothing. I got one in a Black Ops knifepack that isn't a SWEP and has no permissions information and one that's in a Walking Dead pack I can't use because of the drawing style, and that's it. I also tried "tomahawk" and got the Assassin's Creed 3 tomahawk, with permission to do whatever, but I kinda hate the AC3 tomahawk and I'm picky. (I guess it'll work as a placeholder, at least.)

 

Concerning enemy armor, It's already in SMOD, and is easily editable. (try playing the mod before anything else)

 

I've never played SMOD. It's a problem with my copy of windows, it keeps giving me the "file may harm your computer" pop-up and it won't close. I haven't found the problem yet, and I'll play the game when I do.

 

Maybe it's because I got it off Mod DB?

[BTGBullseye]

First: http://www.futurefirepower.com/myths-about-the-nato-556-cartridge

Second: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_4.6%C3%9730mm

Third: You cite many sources that from the sound of things never cleaned the factory packing grease from the Desert Eagle. (a common problem for just about any semi-auto handgun, including my own SR40c) 99% of people will clean only the slide or a few other minor areas that can deal with the grease, but forget other areas. (in the SR40c, it's the striker channel that needs to be cleaned to prevent FTEs, which makes almost no sense)

 

To the hatchet: I actually saw it when I was looking for a scopeless sniper rifle for you. lol (unfortunately I didn't bookmark it)

 

Concerning SMOD: Get it from here... http://bsnooch.com/forums/index.php?topic=1360.0 Follow the instructions, and you should get a playable mod.

[Seattleite]

First: http://www.futurefirepower.com/myths-about-the-nato-556-cartridge

Second: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_4.6%C3%9730mm

Third: You cite many sources that from the sound of things never cleaned the factory packing grease from the Desert Eagle. (a common problem for just about any semi-auto handgun, including my own SR40c) 99% of people will clean only the slide or a few other minor areas that can deal with the grease, but forget other areas. (in the SR40c, it's the striker channel that needs to be cleaned to prevent FTEs, which makes almost no sense)

 

1. Energy transfer lunatic. I already explained this pretty well, but energy transfer does not equal stopping power. At all. Human tissue warps when shot, yes, and warps right back and keeps going. It warps just as much when slapped, for just as little effect. Also, the .30-06, his listed example, creates more "cavitation" than the 5.56x45mm NATO by a LOT, so by his own logic he's an idiot.

2. Wikipedia. Moving on.

3. Then explain why I've never once seen these kinds of issues with other guns? I had no trouble at all cleaning out my P220, and it worked like a charm. I'm still pretty sure that, since I've never seen these issues with any gun that wasn't a Desert Eagle and not all of those Desert Eagles were even now, that it's not a common issue to all semi-automatics that I'm seeing there. And if the man in the last case was coming in with the owner of the store he bought it at in tow, don't you think it would already have been cleaned since the owner should know better? Maybe not, people are stupid, but it seems likely he'd at least check that.

 

And look, I've mentioned it a lot by now, but all the rounds in the game are made by companies who have been meeting very harsh military standards focused on range and penetration for fifty years. If you think this isn't relevant, or don't want to know them, don't read them. But I think they're important because they absolutely, 100% explain why the rounds in-game do so little damage.

 

 

These standards were written in 1965, companies were immediately notified and told they had to conform to it by 1970, and that the cheapest brands for each round capable of meeting these standards would be selected for all military branches, police departments and government agencies such as the FBI, CIA, NSA and Secret Service. And they were not reasonable for the time, especially with the announcement that, regardless of all other factors, the cheapest round capable of meeting these requirements would be selected. And they'll be in effect until 2070, in the unlikely event that the United States Department of Defence still exists in 2070.

 

Construction:

All rounds for military purchase must have a lead core and a copper alloy or mild steel jacket. No core penetrators may be used of any form, and no jackets other than copper or mild steel may be employed. All pistol rounds must feature a rounded face to ensure lethality in close quarters, but rifle rounds may be pointed for greater range.

 

Range:

Pistol rounds, fired from a fixed test barrel with a length equal to five times the length of the round's case, must be able to hit a target the size and shape of the torso of a typical eastern European adult male (the targets were a bit small, they expected communist countries to have malnourished citizens, which was not the case) at least fifty times out of one hundred attempts, at a range equal to ten thousand times the length of the round's case. Rifle rounds, fired from a fixed test barrel with a length equal to ten times the length of the round's case, must be able to hit a target the size and shape of the torso of a typical eastern European adult male at least fifty times out of one hundred attempts, at a range equal to twenty thousand times the length of the round's case.

 

(As a quick example, that would mean a 9x19mm Parabellum would be fired from an 95mm test barrel, and be expected to hit half the time at 190 metres. A .45 ACP would be fired from a 115mm test barrel, and be expected to hit half the time at a range of 230 metres. A 5.56x45mm NATO fired from a 450mm test barrel had to hit half the time at 900 metres, and the 7.62x51mm NATO fired from a 510mm test barrel had to hit half the time at 1020 metres. That is some serious range right there.)

 

Penetration:

Pistol rounds fired fired from a test barrel with a length of five times the round's case at a distance of one yard must reach or exceed a depth equal to fifty times the length of their case into 10% ballistics gelatin at least fifty times out of one hundred attempts. Rifle rounds fired from a test barrel with a length of ten times the round's case at a distance of one yard must reach or exceed a depth equal to one hundred times the length of their case into 10% ballistics gelatin at least fifty times out of one hundred attempts.

 

(This means a 9x19mm Parabellum would be fired from a 95mm test barrel and need to penetrate 950mm of ballistics gelatin, and a .45 ACP would be fired from a 115mm test barrel and need to penetrate 1150mm of ballistics gelatin. A 5.56x45mm NATO needs to be fired from a 450mm test barrel and penetrate 4500mm of ballistics gel, and a 7.62x51mm NATO fired from a 510mm test barrel must reach 5100mm in that same gel. While meeting the previous range requirements, with no special construction methods or materials, as cheaply as possible, in 1970. Think about that.)

 

 

To the hatchet: I actually saw it when I was looking for a scopeless sniper rifle for you. lol (unfortunately I didn't bookmark it)

 

Oh well. Thanks anyway.

 

Concerning SMOD: Get it from here... http://bsnooch.com/forums/index.php?topic=1360.0 Follow the instructions, and you should get a playable mod.

 

Chrome gave me the warning pop this time, and deleted the file. I'll try picking it up through Firefox later, right now I've got to help my friend clear Ornstein & Smough in Dark Souls.

[BTGBullseye]

1. So because he disagrees with your easily debatable stance, you disregard everything he says... That makes sense... Not.

2. Disregarding a source that cites MANY sources, just because it's a wiki page... Aparently you won't accept any source that disagrees with you.

3. How many different guns have you used, how many of them have come direct from the factory, and how many are never touched by anyone but you?

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/112460-please-help-p220-problems.html

https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-739.html

(and there are many more instances of this issue)

Which specific model and versions of the DE? (which company made it is important too) I linked a review for the IWI Mk XIX, and you never specified about the ones in your stories.

 

Concerning the spoiler: Range/accuracy/penetration properties that any real manufacturer would commit genocide to get out of their best experimental rounds now... (and they've been trying since long before the 60's) And that's with higher-end materials. Try looking at what happened when the US military made a competition to make the new standard rifle... A ton of really awesome weapons and ammo, but none could meet the standards required. (and those were pretty lax compared to what you are using) If you're going to ignore real life limitations that have been experienced with ammo and weapons, just say so. (and quit trying to justify using unrealistic stats for the weapons)

 

Concerning the SMOD problem: It isn't Chrome. Check your AV, since that is quite obviously what is causing the problem. (Chrome can't delete files)

[Seattleite]

1. So because he disagrees with your easily debatable stance, you disregard everything he says... That makes sense... Not.

 

That's NOT what I just said at all. I said I've already heard all his arguments and addressed them before on this page. You're sounding JUST like a creationist right now, pretending you're winning the argument because you repeat the same one over and over again until I get tired of refuting it. And it's pretty damned annoying.

 

2. Disregarding a source that cites MANY sources, just because it's a wiki page... Aparently you won't accept any source that disagrees with you.

 

Nobody accepts Wikipedia as a source, and there's good reasons as to why. Anybody can add anything at any time, with no standards of notoriety, and it will not be found in time for it to not serve their purposes. I have more than once caught people editing a Wikipedia page to support their position right before linking to it. If you're going to use any of the citations there, fair enough, but link to them directly.

 

Seriously, are you just using this source so you can try and win sympathy points with the audience we don't have when I shoot it down?

 

3. How many different guns have you used, how many of them have come direct from the factory, and how many are never touched by anyone but you?

 

1. I haven't counted, but I can name 23 different firearms right now off the top of my head. You want a list, I'll give it to you.

2. Four of them. One AKM (no problems at all), one AR15, one Benelli M4 and my P220.

3. Only my P220.

 

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/112460-please-help-p220-problems.html

https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-739.html

(and there are many more instances of this issue)

 

This is an issue with the magazine, not the weapon. I'm well aware of the issues with Sig's 8-round magazines. My specific weapon is a P220 Compact, it has a 6-round magazine, I never had this problem.

 

Which specific model and versions of the DE? (which company made it is important too) I linked a review for the IWI Mk XIX, and you never specified about the ones in your stories.

 

I don't know the exact models, they weren't my guns. The first two were .50 AE, the third was a .357 and the fourth was a .50 AE as well. I only know that because I volunteered to load magazines for people back then, because it got me a better view and increased the chances I'd get to fire the weapon. (I was going out there from when I was seven to when I was 16. I didn't own my own gun until two years after I stopped going.)

 

Concerning the spoiler: Range/accuracy/penetration properties that any real manufacturer would commit genocide to get out of their best experimental rounds now... (and they've been trying since long before the 60's) And that's with higher-end materials. Try looking at what happened when the US military made a competition to make the new standard rifle... A ton of really awesome weapons and ammo, but none could meet the standards required. (and those were pretty lax compared to what you are using) If you're going to ignore real life limitations that have been experienced with ammo and weapons, just say so. (and quit trying to justify using unrealistic stats for the weapons)

 

It's really... Not that bad, actually. I mean, for the pistols these requirements are insane, but the requirements for rifles weren't *that* bad. At least, by modern standards. They were pretty harsh in the late '60s, but were still doable.

 

Rounds from a fixed test barrel are always more accurate than rounds fired by an actual shooter, especially since the trajectory will have been calculated precisely beforehand. From a fixed test barrel, most 7.62 NATO rounds will hit over half the time at a kilometre. Even rounds not really built for sharp shooting. It's the pistols that had a hell of a time with the range requirement due to the shape of the rounds. If they'd just been allowed to make them spitzers, they could have made it easy, but as it was they had to load rifle powder and stretch the definition of "mild steel" jacketing.

 

As a side note, pistol springs have to get replaced a lot in this setting. And due to the lack of wear-reducing powder additives, you need to clean pistols more frequently as well.

 

As for penetration, yes five metres of ballistics gel is a lot. But it's 10% ballistics gel. That's the weakest variety that sees any actual use, it's not inconceivable for a 7.62x51 FMJ to penetrate that deep. Most powerful available propellant and super-stable, extra long boat-tailed spitzer ammunition did the trick. For the pistols, though, it wasn't even that big of a challenge. What they did to meet the range requirement made them meet the penetration requirement without any further improvement.

 

But for what it's worth, I did set these requirements specifically to justify the way damage was calculated in-game. Though at the time, it was a different game. It was a tabletop that was never made due to its mechanics being intolerably complex and a simpler tabletop being proposed shortly thereafter. And the reason I set it this way was that it allowed me to calculate the weapon's stats based on its case dimensions without having to find out all the specifics of how each manufactuers's rounds perform. See, I tried to do it the other way, but I quickly found out most of the things you'd like to know about a round are impossible to find solid data on, and when you do the data is tainted by extra variables such as the weapon it's fired from and the conditions under which it was fired. So I just said "bollocks to it" and calculated the muzzle energy, mass of the round, effective range and penetration from the case dimensions (the only constant in manufacture of a round between variants) and came up with an in-universe justification. And since all the reasons it works for the setting and all the reasons it works for me are still just as valid now, I'm still going to keep it.

 

And you do know that all I had to say to justify the statistics in-game was that the rifle rounds were just really stable, and not give any specifics as to why, right? If my end goal was just to shut down all criticism of their performance, I could have done it in one sentence. That's not my goal here. Nor is my goal to argue with you all day about how I do things. My goal is to try and get across why it is the way it is. And right now, I'm going to be quite blunt about it.

 

First and foremost, it's a game. And more importantly it's a game I have to make. I'm putting enough time into it without spending a thousand hours on research to find all the specifics of performance of all these various weapons with all these various forms of ammunition made by all the manufacturers that produce them. The amount of time it would take to acquire all of this information is greater than the time it would take to just make the entire game with a rough approximation for these rounds' performance and be done with it. So yes, I'm taking shortcuts and justifying them after the fact. Take it or leave it.

 

Concerning the SMOD problem: It isn't Chrome. Check your AV, since that is quite obviously what is causing the problem. (Chrome can't delete files)

 

"Delete" wasn't accurate, that's my fault. The exact message is "SMODStandalone_in....exe may harm your browsing experience, so Chrome has blocked it." And it worked fine through Firefox.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

If it's okay with you, I'd like to move on to the RPG elements.

 

This game uses a traditional experience point system for gaining levels, and levels are gained slowly. You can gain experience for completing jobs, incapacitating enemies (double points for non-lethal incapacitations and double points for taking them down without anybody else noticing, the two multipliers stack). Getting to a particular level takes L*L-1*500 experience. Basically, that means you start at level 1, it takes 1000xp to get from level 1 to level 2 and 1000 more than that for each additional level up. The level cap is 100, which would take a total of 4.950,000xp. I can safely say you will never reach the level cap.

 

For example, if you go out on a burglary job on a house in a gated community worth 1000xp, in the process non-lethally take down the single occupant (400xp) to steal a jewelry box, you'll return with 1400xp. And if that job had a special condition, for 1000xp, that you not injure the occupant or be noticed by them, that could have made a total of 2000xp if you had acted like a proper burglar and gotten in and out unnoticed.

 

Every odd level lets you distribute six points into your six attributes in however you wish. Since this is only every odd level, that means reaching the level cap will provide a total of 300. That's enough to max out three attributes at 100, get all six to 50, or something somewhere between. Every even level, you select a perk instead.

 

The six attributes are strength, agility, constitution, perception, charisma, resolve.

 

Strength: +1% one-handed melee damage, +2% two-handed melee damage

Agility: +1% critical damage, -0.5% ranged weapon spread

Constitution: +1 stamina, +1 health

Perception: +1% experience gain, +0.1m perception range (outlines enemies you can't see, while crouched)

Charisma: +1% item sale price, -0.5% notoriety, -0.5% jail time, -0.5% to the cost (per day) of buying your way out of jail time

Resolve: +1% morale (if this runs out, your perks stop working) +1% sanity (epilogue only, if this runs out weird things start happening)

 

I can't go into all the perks right now, but there's meant to be a total of 25 chains of 3. Completing a chain earns you an extra perk for free. One example chain is the Duelist's chain. Some of these are based off mythological deities. The ones that are get increased effects for each perk when you take another perk. An example of that is the All-Father chain, which is of coursed based off of the All-Father, Odin.

 

The first in the Duelist chain is "Duelist", which removes the stamina cost of blocking (though you still move slower and don't regenerate stamina while blocking).

The second is "Perfect Parry", which gives a tiny window (1/5 the length of the normal window) in which a parry will ragdoll an enemy (which keeps them incapacitated for much longer than a stagger).

The last is "Lethal Riposte", which makes you do double damage to enemies that are staggered, ragdolled, rising after being ragdolled or are incapacitated.

Getting all three of those grants "Coup de Grace", which doubles the damage you do against an enemy that is ragdolled or incapacitated, which stacks with lethal riposte for quadruple total damage.

 

The first perk in the All-Father chain is "All-Father's Wisdom", which allows your perception to function whether you're crouched or not. When two All-Father perks are acquired, you gain +50% perception range while crouched. With all three, this becomes +100%.

The second is "King of Life and Death", which makes it so every attack that hits you regenerates a single hit point, with a one minute delay between instances. This works even if the attack deals no damage. When you have the full chain, you also regenerate a single hit point when you land a hit with a melee attack.

The third is "God of War", which gives a chance (equal to your normal critical chance) for a critical hit to become a super-critical that gets an extra, special effect dependent on the weapon type.

 

All perks are powerful, but I chose these two chains for a reason. Duelist takes a lot of skill to use effectively and will likely be useless to many players who just can't get the timing down, but when used right it can be one of the most potent perk chains in the game. Possibly THE most potent, as when used properly melee enemies can be defeated in a matter of seconds with no harm to you, emphasizing the importance this game places on skill. The other, the All-Father chain, doesn't sound very helpful at first until you think about how it can be applied. And once you do understand how to apply it, it too can be incredibly potent, emphasizing the importance the game places on tactics. These two chains also fit together very well, and it shouldn't take much thought to figure out why.

 

While I'll probably go into more detail later, for the moment this should both be enough detail on the mechanics to get a basic picture of the game's performance and design philosophy.

[BTGBullseye]

1. You have no sources for your 'refuting' of my sources.

 

2. Are you really just that lazy that you can't use the sources that are there? I linked the wiki because I don't have time to link the numerous sources it does, and because you'll likely ignore them anyways.

 

3. About parts 1 & 2, because those weren't part of part 3, they could have been either cleaned or adjusted before you got them, hence no problems. (and you got lucky) Part 3, the 220 is a nice piece, it doesn't have a lot of problems, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have any problems. (the magazine issue was not because of the mag, but because of the recoil spring, in case you didn't bother actually reading the problems I linked)

 

4. (the DE issue) It is likely that they were either using a DE produced by another manufacturer, or one of the other versions that had problems that didn't exist in the Mk XIX version. Specifics are necessary for an informed opinion. (using possibly completely unconnected issues to make a conclusion as to the reliability of a firearm is not smart)

 

5. (the ammo properties) You could've started the conversation with that, and your unrealistic values would've made a LOT more sense.

 

6. (RPG elements) Sounds like a lot of fun, but you'll need to make a large variety of different types and styles of missions in order to keep people interested. I like the idea of that perk system.

 

7. I still think you're overestimating people's reaction time.

[Seattleite]

1. You have no sources for your 'refuting' of my sources.

 

No, because I had a solid logical argument for it. "Cavitation" is what you keep bringing up, and "cavitation" is caused by the shockwave that occurs when kinetic energy is transferred into a flexible medium, and occurs whenever kinetic energy is transferred into one. And in a gunshot wound, the "cavitation" effect is also knows as the "temporary wound cavity". They call it that because it lasts less than a second before the tissue goes (mostly) back to normal. For another point as to why it isn't important, remember that it's not any different between delivery methods. You can take more energy than a bullet will ever transfer to you with very little injury. Go have somebody slap you as hard as they can. You just took a couple hundred joules to the face, the same as most gunshot wounds, and all you got was mild redness. It won't even bruise. Energy transfer clearly isn't the culprit here. And even if it was, your second source was still rubbish because the round he was comparing the 5.56 to actually causes MORE cavitation, not less. I CAN link to a source on that if you want to claim the 5.56 transfers more energy than the .30-06, but I'm pretty sure you know that already.

 

The culprit is and can only be the bleeding hole through your body, and then what matters is the size of that hole. And the only ways to get a larger hole are to either use a wider bullet, make your bullet expand (similar result, different method), have it roll (which doesn't increase the size of the hole *that* much, a 5.56 tumbling is still smaller than a 9mm going through normally) or have it break into pieces (which I've already said is HUGELY effective and will reliably make a rifle round several times more damaging, but frangible rounds are illegal for both the civilian and military market).

 

That's my logic. If that isn't enough for you, that's fine. But you don't need a source when all you're presenting is logic, not data. A source is of NO VALUE when you're not presenting data. Would I need a source if we were arguing about the products of eleven and fourteen, or would the math suffice? If you were throwing Pascal's Wager at me, and I explained the false premise it's made under, would I need somebody else saying it as well for it to count, or would the logic still hold solid? Some things just don't need a source. Sources are for data, not logic.

 

2. Are you really just that lazy that you can't use the sources that are there? I linked the wiki because I don't have time to link the numerous sources it does, and because you'll likely ignore them anyways.

 

You're NOT the first person I've had this debate with. I've read them before, and every single one of them was written under the assumption that energy transfer was responsible for stopping power. And sound like they're written by the company's marketing department, considering the complete lack of any criticism for the weapon or acknowledgement of its flaws. If you want me to give them a quick look over again, despite it being about the third time I've done so, then fine. I'll waste another couple hours of my time if it'll end this.

 

3. About parts 1 & 2, because those weren't part of part 3, they could have been either cleaned or adjusted before you got them, hence no problems. (and you got lucky) Part 3, the 220 is a nice piece, it doesn't have a lot of problems, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have any problems. (the magazine issue was not because of the mag, but because of the recoil spring, in case you didn't bother actually reading the problems I linked)

 

I did look at your source. At least, I read the first half dozen posts from the top of each and moved on. They specifically mentioned the weapon have trouble with the 8-round magazines. Whether that's the weapon's fault or the magazine's fault isn't really relevant, because having a different magazine solves the problem either way.

 

4. (the DE issue) It is likely that they were either using a DE produced by another manufacturer, or one of the other versions that had problems that didn't exist in the Mk XIX version. Specifics are necessary for an informed opinion. (using possibly completely unconnected issues to make a conclusion as to the reliability of a firearm is not smart)

 

Well, how in the world am I supposed to know the exact models of firearms I never personally handled? And for what it's worth, I doubt it's not the fault of the weapon's design, considering that every one of these was a mechanical problem with the weapon. Except that last one, that one took bad ammunition, a crappy weapon *and* user error to happen the way it did.

 

5. (the ammo properties) You could've started the conversation with that, and your unrealistic values would've made a LOT more sense.

 

1. I'm quite used to people getting a perfectly sound explanation of why I have decided to do things the way I do and deciding to flat ignore it and keep arguing from their perspective anyway. I've learned the hard way that a short, simple explanation of your intentions will satisfy nobody until they've already given up on trying to force you to do things their way.

2. They're really not unrealistic. I did the math instead of assigning random values for a reason. Every round of every calibre present in the game is 100% capable of performing that way in real life. ALL that's required is a manufacturer to have the same priorities as the in-game companies and that's how they will perform. The rounds are absolutely realistic within the context of the setting.

3. In fact, some manufacturers DO have the same priorities. There are rounds available for all of these weapons that are extremely stable and will almost never yaw. There's also pistol rounds loaded with overkill powder, pistol rounds built to be accurate at range, and of course pistol rounds loaded with overkill powder designed to be accurate at range. So every variety of rounds in-game does have a real-world equivalent that performs just like it.

 

6. (RPG elements) Sounds like a lot of fun, but you'll need to make a large variety of different types and styles of missions in order to keep people interested. I like the idea of that perk system.

 

I intend to. Theft, framings, smuggling, sabotage, arson, assassination, bombings, there's a lot to go around. Granted, the different job types will be added in one at a time, but in the final version all of those will be in there. And a lot of the game is completely freeform, too. I'm not sure the overall size of the city, but it's canonically similar in size to Houston, so even at 1/30th scale it's going to be huge. (Good thing it's built off of Half-Life 2 and can have vehicles.) And the city also has a maze-like (sorry Ross) collection of interlinking underground networks you can navigate if you'd prefer to just do some exploring and treasure hunting. (Four of them, no less. The sewer, the subway, the catacombs and the natural cave formations are all extensive and all link into eachother.)

 

7. I still think you're overestimating people's reaction time.

 

And I think you should play Dark Souls before you say that. There's a very good PC release of the game, and the window for parrying in it is right in the same range as it is in my game. Plenty of people can parry in Dark Souls just fine (once they know which attacks can be parried and which can't... I never said the game was without flaws) and I think you'll find that, with some practice, you should be able to do it too. And if you're not willing to play the game, then I'll produce some links of people parrying in it, inside its tiny, tiny parry windows.

 

And for the record, the 0.05s and smaller parry windows in this game are supposed to be extraordinarily difficult to pull off because having that short of a window needs to be a meaningful weakness to balance those weapons the way it's intended. The baseball bat would be an absolute power house if its block didn't suck and its parries weren't so hard to pull off (both realistic weaknesses of a baseball bat, by the way), and the flashlight needs to be a very weak weapon because the areas it's used in will be designed around that. Perfect parries in particular need to require extraordinary timing to pull off, because they pretty much guarantee victory when done successfully. The 5-6 seconds it'll take an enemy to get back into the fight after a perfect parry is longer than any enemy is going to survive.