Oblivion and Fallout 3 mods?

[Seattleite]

My review was of the vanilla game as I feel reviewing a game with mods would be unfair. And vanilla Fallout 3 is just a major disappointment when compared to Fallout 2. I mean, even with mods it still is in terms of story, tone and game feel and no amount of mods can fix the core issues with the game. That's not saying I hate the game or anything, in fact I love playing it, but I just don't think it holds up to the older games, especially Fallout 2 in terms of content.

 

So... Does that mean you're not interested?

[Alyxx Thorne]

Oh I'm interested. I was just referring to why my review is negative and what my feelings towards Fallout 3 CONTENT wise are. Gameplay wise most of the bugs can be fixed and most of the issues can be fixed with mdos, yes. I'm just saying none of it really adds anything into the game that makes it as fun as Fallout 2 for me.

[Seattleite]

I don't know about that. Turn-based combat really irks me, in video games at least, and the complete inability of my character, regardless of build, to ever hit anything in any circumstance with any weapon REALLY turned me off of the old-school Fallout games.

[BTGBullseye]

I don't know about that. Turn-based combat really irks me, in video games at least, and the complete inability of my character, regardless of build, to ever hit anything in any circumstance with any weapon REALLY turned me off of the old-school Fallout games.

Hey! You stole my characters!

 

Well, I just got done doing a FNVEdit merge of all your mods, now to see if it worked, then to see if I can clean it up a little bit without changing the mod.

[Seattleite]

Hey BTG. I made a rather significant typographical error and just noticed it. See, last time I fought the X-42, I thought it was too easy. So I went to increase its health from 5000 to 10000, amongst other changes (more armour, more resistance to energy, so on). This time, I found myself basically incapable of harming it. As in, its health bar was not moving. I apparently made it 100000. This fight isn't supposed to *require* a missile launcher, so that's a big issue. I can't resolve that from here, I have to wait until I get home, but I'll resolve it.

[BTGBullseye]

You might also want to look into the fact that a full magazine from the 9mm SMG can't kill a 1.5 foot long bug in the schoolhouse. (even when 100% are hits to the head and abdomen.

[Seattleite]

What? That's not right at all. I kill those things really easily. Varies, because I have an issue where I keep hitting its arms or legs, but usually 2-4 shots from a 9mm pistol. And they're bigger than that. Something is going wrong on your end. Probably a mod conflict. Use the console, read back its health and armour rating. They should be 40 and 30, respectively. (The really tiny ones striaght out of the ootheca should be 20 and 30, respectively.) With a 9mm pistol (SMG, assuming no major condition penalty because I can't remove that, should be stronger) that should mean 14-28 damage and mean death in 2-3 shots to the torso (1-2 for freshly hatched ones). One shot should also cripple any part of their body, and the mantis should also have a base scale of 0.6 (0.3 if freshly hatched). If any of these things is not true, something went wrong somewhere.

 

Also, check your load order. The main file should be after all the others.

 

I am going to try a re-upload of OverhaulMain.esp, just in case I forgot it last night and still had an older version. This version has not been altered. Pick it up and see if anything changes. If not, than it's not my mod.

 

Now, upon going back and checking, I do still see 2-3 shots killing, one if it's a critical hit. However, I do also see a LOT of hitbox dissonance. Hitbox dissonance so huge even VATS is fucking useless at dealing with it. I can see the shots hitting on the other side of the target, where there's no way at all they hit where they did without going through the target. VATS claims 95% chance to hit, but misses every single shot. EVERY. SINGLE. SHOT. And once they turn around to fight, every hit lands on their arms, where they take next to no damage. That is rather decidedly irritating. I CANNOT fix hitbox issues, they are 100% totally beyond my power, but what I can do is edit the body part data to have a less serious penalty for hitting the limbs so you won't do basically nothing just because a shot landed on the forelimbs of the mantis. The issue with shots magically phasing through them is irreparable, and cannot possibly be something I did because I have done nothing to their models or hitboxes. Just hit them with a stick or something, their health is so low almost anything blunt will do them in one, end of story. There's a flagpole outside the school if you don't have anything. It instantly kills them regardless of circumstance, it's fast and has long reach.

 

Alright. It's all resolved. Increased health damage on limbs, fixed the health of the X-42. All that's done. The files impacted are HonestOverhaul.esp, OldWorldOverhaul.esp and OverhaulMain.esp.

[BTGBullseye]

Ok... Yeah, it appears it always hit limbs, no matter where it was aimed or showed the hit. Also, I did use the flagpole for 1-hitting them originally. But still, 30 9mm rounds to the legs and arms should very effectively 'kill' the bugs, (they would be unable to move, and therefore helpless) so it's good that you upped the damage taken on limbs for them. I check and see about the other bugs soon.

 

As for the load order, not something I need to worry about due to the merging of the mods... Though I merged them in the wrong order. It would be helpful if you put a specific exact order for the mods so I can merge them properly.

 

Downloading the updated files now.

[Seattleite]

As long as main loads last (thus overrides all the others if there's anything weird in them) it'll work.

 

I'm guessing the mantis hitbox dissonance didn't matter in vanilla because everything but the head did 1x health damage (ridiculous), and of course the fact that mantis nymphs died instantly if you went anywhere near them, even if you didn't touch them or do anything to them (even more ridiculous). But even before, when limb damage was kinda low, they were one-shotted by melee and most ranged attacks left them completely stunlocked as each hit crippled a new limb until they died. Nevertheless, this irritation being out of the way is quite pleasing. (Well, if I ever used ranged weapons on them. I've got this thing about conserving ammo, you understand.)

[Alyxx Thorne]

I don't know about that. Turn-based combat really irks me, in video games at least, and the complete inability of my character, regardless of build, to ever hit anything in any circumstance with any weapon REALLY turned me off of the old-school Fallout games.

I'm not talking about gameplay really. And I'm fine with turnbased combat personally since I grew up with it. I'm talking about the content. Fallout 2 had a ton of funny pop culture references and never felt like it took itself too seriously. It had some pretty over-the-top scenarios. You could literally make a guy explode by fucking him and could have sex to get good deals. While I am aware you can do this in Fallout 3 with mods the whole tone of the game makes such scenarios not fit in well and they just end up ruining the experience for me in Fallout 3. I feel Fallout 3's tone misses the point entirely and takes itself too seriously.

[Seattleite]

I realize that. But gameplay really matters. I could never tolerate the older games long enough to get into the game, so nothing else matters. Within an hour of trying, watching my character completely fail to hit a target right in front of them with a weapon that is functionally impossible to miss with in real life, doing little or no damage with their attacks and ending up having to adopt strategies like using firearms in melee combat that are SUICIDE in real life, I give up, delete all files associated with the game and play something, anything, else.

 

Also, BTG, I'm thinking of changing the amount of armour-skipping damage dealt by the various melee weapon types. I'm not sure if I'm doing the same for Fallout 3, but I might. Basically, blunt weapons used to do 10/damage grade armour-skipping damage (10-200, IE: 60 for a baseball bat) and will now do 5/damage grade (5-100, IE: 30 for a baseball bat), piercing weapons used to do 5/damage grade (5-80, IE: 15 for a kitchen knife) and will now do 3/damage grade (3-48, IE: 9 for a kitchen knife) and slashing didn't used to do any but will now do 1/damage grade (1-12, IE: 6 for a jian). This works out a bit more realistically and makes melee a bit weaker, while allowing even a straight razor to deal a little guaranteed damage. (Although the guaranteed damage of the straight razor is a single point.)

[BTGBullseye]

Sounds a lot better than where it's at now where I'm usually 1-hitting humans with the flagpole... Even humans should take 3-4 hits from that thing before unconsciousness, and another 2-3 before death.

[Seattleite]

Well, remember that it does terminate in a metal bird figure, swings outstretched, which I'm assuming you'd be using to strike and would focus the force onto a tiny area on the metal wingtips. One strike like that to the head could be enough to put somebody down. And you must be fighting powder gangers to be one-hitting enemies with that thing, even right now. Early game powder gangers have basically no base health and die from silly weak attacks. I can usually one-shot them with a .22 if I can get a sneak attack on their head. Hell, I once game back from way late game to play around and killed a powder ganger in a single shot from a BB gun. A BB GUN. (Granted, I had 100 guns skill and relevant perks coming out my ass at that point, but it still was a one-shot kill with a toy gun.)

 

Also, I take issue with "even humans". Humans are quite sturdy, and I despise this idea that they are frail or fragile when they are quite decidedly neither.

 

The update is done, by the way. For NV, at least. The affected files are TribalOverhaul, DeadOverhaul, HonestOverhaul, OldWorldOverhaul, LonelyOverhaul and OverhaulMain. I'll get to Fallout 3 either later today or tomorrow.

 

EDIT:

While I was at it, I took care of an issue where part of the poison from bark and rad scorpions was affecting themselves instead of their targets, causing them to cripple their own torsos with their neurotoxin instead of the target's torso.

[BTGBullseye]

That bug for bugs sounds like fun! lol

 

Getting the update now, and combining. Also, you might want to edit the first post, and put the downloads there. You could also make a dedicated Mega account for this mod so you only have 1 link to all the files. (they could do that last I checked)

[Seattleite]

Okay, first off, scorpions aren't bugs. They're arachnids.

 

Also, I thought Mega was shut down. You remember, back when SOPA and PIPA both failed but the government went "Eh, whatever. We don't need it to be legal, we'll just do it anyway."

[BTGBullseye]

Scorpions aren't insects. Bugs are usually insects, but not always. Arachnids can be bugs too, but only if they are undesirable.

 

Megaupload was shut down, and Mega came up in it's stead... Mega has never been shut down.

[Seattleite]

We can debate semantics all day, or we can try to do something productive. (And by the way, the whole torso-crippling thing? Totally the case. Their venom is quite potent to the health and torso condition of those with low poison resistance. Don't get stung, and carry antivenom just in case.)

 

A few things worth asking about (both of you) in regards to the combat:

1. Is the AI as stupid for you as it is for me? Happen to know a good mod to fix that? Because it's pretty depressing how stupid the AI is sometimes. "Hey, I have a hunting rifle! Better run right up to my target and fire from point blank!" "Hey, they're shooting at me! Better stand still and do nothing instead of going behind cover." "Hey, I'm losing! I'll just squat down and cower in the open instead of running away!" "Hey, I just got shot six times and I'm pretty much dead! But I'd better save my stimpaks for when I'm really hurt!" "Oh, I'm being charged by a guy with a sword! I'd better stand perfectly still and fire at him instead of backing away!" Fucking idiot AI.

2. How's the combat going in general for you?

3. Have you run into any fights that gave you a really hard time yet?

[BTGBullseye]

1. I know of no such mod, and that is the default AI. I heard of someone that was working on improving the AI, but haven't seen it yet.

2. Haven't gotten around to trying it since the recent update, but I'll be testing it tonight.

3. Haven't gotten around to trying it since the recent update, but I'll be testing it tonight.

 

[EDIT] Major problem with the update... Now the entire UI refuses to accept keyboard or mouse inputs, and freezes the UI just before putting up the main menu. Even makes it difficult to close out of the game without logging out of Windows.

[Seattleite]

Wait, what? How exactly is that possible? I changed nothing related to the UI. I can't change anything related to the UI. What the hell is that?

 

Okay. Okay, this clearly isn't my mod because I changed nothing related to that. So let's run through the steps.

1. Are you running NVSE? It absolutely requires NVSE.

2. Try reverting to a previous save, maybe it's a problem with your save file.

3. Look to see if you have multiple copies of the mod or parts of the mod running. I've never done that but I can imagine it would be nutso.

4. Make sure you've got all relevant master files loaded. If you have a mod loaded without a parent file it relies upon it will crash the game.

5. Try picking up the file again, maybe it got corrupted somewhere in the process of either being downloaded or being combined.

6. If none of this works, I have no idea what to tell you.

[BTGBullseye]

1. Yes.

2. I cant even get the main menu to come up when I first start the game, how can I load a save game?

3. I do not.

4. They are all loaded, and in the proper order.

5. Tried, no change.

6. The way it's acting is identical to what I've seen happen when two mods are loaded out of order... When I load your main mod first instead of last, it works fine.