Abortion Controversy

[Alyxx Thorne]

wow... so far I am really impressed that we can bring religion into the argument and not have it turn out to be a pointless/endless debate about weather or not God exists. Picking pro-choice and not bringing religion into the mix of killing a human because they have a soul, can be very tricky. In theory going pro-choice seems logical, since it will leave the ultimate decision to the woman. But the down side to that is there can be so many factors affecting your state of mind that you will not be able to make a clear headed decision and abort out of fear, then regretting it for the rest of your life. This is what I am hoping will not happen.

Personally I think discussing whether God is real or not would be off topic since this isn't a religious discussion but an ethical one. Besides, no one can proove whether God is real or not so it would be a pointless discussion since that is all about your own personal faith.

[Snowflake]

Personally I think discussing whether God is real or not would be off topic since this isn't a religious discussion but an ethical one. Besides, no one can proove whether God is real or not so it would be a pointless discussion since that is all about your own personal faith.

 

I agree, that this is not a topic about weather or not God is real, and it would be pointless to talk about. But looking at this from a religious perspective is also an important ethical perspective since many people can base there decisions around that killing an unborn child is still killing a human baby, which does have a soul and is usually against most religious (more familiar with Christian) practices. Then there is an entire debate within this view of when someone actually obtains a soul.

[Alyxx Thorne]

Personally I think discussing whether God is real or not would be off topic since this isn't a religious discussion but an ethical one. Besides, no one can proove whether God is real or not so it would be a pointless discussion since that is all about your own personal faith.

 

I agree, that this is not a topic about weather or not God is real, and it would be pointless to talk about. But looking at this from a religious perspective is also an important ethical perspective since many people can base there decisions around that killing an unborn child is still killing a human baby, which does have a soul and is usually against most religious (more familiar with Christian) practices. Then there is an entire debate within this view of when someone actually obtains a soul.

For me, souls are immortal and I believe that there is only a limited amount of souls in existence, that get reborn once the body dies, a sort of belief in reincarnation. So for me if the body dies, the soul does not, no matter what. Killing an unborn child is for me not denying a soul a life. But that's just my own spiritual belief about it.

[Snowflake]

In my belief I feel that everyone has a soul but I can't say when they get it, since when you die you either go to Heaven if you are good, or Hell if you have sinned. Yet an unborn child has done neither, and same with babies who have died right after birth. Its one of those mysteries that only God knows the answer to, so best treat the situation seriously and make a decision whether or not to bring a life into this world.

[Alyxx Thorne]

In my belief I feel that everyone has a soul but I can't say when they get it, since when you die you either go to Heaven if you are good, or Hell if you have sinned. Yet an unborn child has done neither, and same with babies who have died right after birth. Its one of those mysteries that only God knows the answer to, so best treat the situation seriously and make a decision whether or not to bring a life into this world.

In other words, think before you f**k.

[Snowflake]

In other words, think before you f**k.

 

HAHA! Exactly!

[BTGBullseye]

If I was raped and impregnated against my will, would I want to carry the child of someone I don't love and who didn't love me? That's the sort of question most people should ask themselves.

This exactly.

And, if you choose to keep the child instead of putting it up for adoption, I can't imagine being able to love the baby as unconditionally as you could a child you had with someone you don't abhor as much as someone that raped you. Not on purpose, but everytime you see the child, you'd see the rapist.

Yes, you'd always feel half of him in your child. It's like choosing between two evils. Either give birth to a child you'd never feel is truly your own, or kill it and live with the same you have denied the child of its life.

I just felt like I should sit and think on this aspect of the issue before I responded to it.

 

Whether you carry a child to term or abort, you will always have the exact same mental stress. It's based on a choice, you can either choose to let it be traumatic, or choose to let yourself get over it. The pregnancy changes nothing about this. (I did find several studies about the lack of psychological difference between aborted rape pregnancies, and carried rape pregnancies, but I can't seem to find them anymore)

 

Short version: It's your choice to let it be traumatic or not, the baby is simply an excuse.

[Bjossi]

You should try to get raped some day, and get back to us on your findings.

Or maybe you have already been raped? That would certainly explain your otherwise non-cited, confident claims on the mental experience.

[BTGBullseye]

You should try to get raped some day, and get back to us on your findings.

Or maybe you have already been raped? That would certainly explain your otherwise non-cited, confident claims on the mental experience.

Let's see your proof that I'm wrong. I already mentioned that I had supporting evidence, but lost the sites they were located on...

[Alyxx Thorne]

So in your opinion, BTG, someone can choose to get over it? You don't think they need therapy or help? They can just choose it and "bang", they're over it?

 

I don't think that's how it works. And I highly doubt you talk from actual experience.

[Bjossi]

Let's see your proof that I'm wrong. I already mentioned that I had supporting evidence, but lost the sites they were located on...

 

You made the claim, not me, it is your problem if you can't back it up. I'll be waiting for you to find your sources again, in the mean time I am going to choose to ignore gravity.

 

Wee! This is fun!

[BTGBullseye]

So in your opinion, BTG, someone can choose to get over it? You don't think they need therapy or help? They can just choose it and "bang", they're over it?

 

I don't think that's how it works. And I highly doubt you talk from actual experience.

I never said it was instant, but there is no difference in duration or intensity of said trauma between carrying a child gotten through rape, and getting an abortion of a rape child.

 

in the mean time I am going to choose to ignore gravity.

 

Wee! This is fun!

I do that frequently... Jumping is the fastest, easiest, and cheapest way to do so.

[Alyxx Thorne]

So in your opinion, BTG, someone can choose to get over it? You don't think they need therapy or help? They can just choose it and "bang", they're over it?

 

I don't think that's how it works. And I highly doubt you talk from actual experience.

I never said it was instant, but there is no difference in duration or intensity of said trauma between carrying a child gotten through rape, and getting an abortion of a rape child.

Well, I'm just saying it might not be that simple. Psychology is a tad bit more complex.

[Snowflake]

Umm.... going back to the rape thing... I guess if for some reason you do decided to keep the rape child, how will your treatment towards it be? Or if you have had other kids as well, (perhaps married) knowing that you had those because you wanted to and this one wasn't even your mistake. This was force on to you, and whether or not you keep it should be based on the amount minimal amount of suffering caused to the woman in question.

[Bjossi]

A mother's love for her child is very powerful, but to what extent the rape affects that love is something I have no position to judge.

[BTGBullseye]

A mother's love for her child is very powerful, but to what extent the rape affects that love is something I have no position to judge.

Umm.... going back to the rape thing... I guess if for some reason you do decided to keep the rape child, how will your treatment towards it be? Or if you have had other kids as well, (perhaps married) knowing that you had those because you wanted to and this one wasn't even your mistake. This was force on to you, and whether or not you keep it should be based on the amount minimal amount of suffering caused to the woman in question.

That's where adoption comes in.

[Axeldeath]

I still haven't chosen an answer. I must've been on here 3 or 4 times

[GLaDOSsMailerDaemon]

Go go gadget ethics quantifier.

 

Popular arguments for pro-abortion:

• Women's right to choose

• Protection against rape

 

Women's right to choose: Ambiguous argument which by tending to not explicitly state what the woman is choosing pleads the sympathy of those which sympathize with the idea of basic freedoms. Restate:

Women's right to have an abortion: Something is only a right if granted by law or avoids conflict with present law (right to move your arm to the left). Asserting that abortion should be a right because it is a right is a fallacious argument. Invalid.

 

Protection against rape: Quantify rape: Symptom of social unrest. Solution: Treat illness. Treatment: Artificial insemination and biological suppression of natural reproductive cycle (GATTACA without all the failed bureaucracy and ethical laziness). Sex preserved as a pleasure activity ("nonmechanical reproduction simulation.") Dissenters are labeled incompetent and told to go hug poison oak.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Guest (see edit history)

[GLaDOSsMailerDaemon]

…or mothers told their child is at risk for a deadly malformation or a birth defect.

 

You've just killed Beethoven with that approach.

 

Solution: Policies more open to suicide. Deciding whether or not the life is worth its existence after it has actually been lived for awhile by the person actually living it makes a lot more sense than someone else deciding if it is worth it BEFORE it has even been lived.

 

Suicide booths anyone?

[BTGBullseye]

…or mothers told their child is at risk for a deadly malformation or a birth defect.

 

You've just killed Beethoven with that approach.

 

Solution: Policies more open to suicide. Deciding whether or not the life is worth its existence after it has actually been lived for awhile by the person actually living it makes a lot more sense than someone else deciding if it is worth it BEFORE it has even been lived.

 

Suicide booths anyone?

+rep for both of your posts.