Abortion Controversy

[EnviMea]

I've seen random snippets of it in various places around here, and this seems to be a pretty good section for controversies. Since any laws put in place for or against abortion would directly effect a large portion of society, I certainly consider it a civilization problem. If this is somehow against an unwritten rule on this forum, I apologise, but it's an interesting debate topic as long as everyone can be mature.

 

So, long story short: For, or against a woman's right to choose? Obviously, it would be ideal for everyone to give some insight on their opinions.

 

 

Personally, I believe in human rights and free will, but also that everyone should be responsible for something they did. The act of baby-making is like signing a contract, saying that both parties involved are responsible for any babies, diseases, etc. I'm not so much "pro-life" for the sake of the life of the unborn child, but more that people shouldn't terminate a pregnancy because of a drunk night in Vegas.

This, of course, doesn't involve rape victims, or mothers told their child is at risk for a deadly malformation or a birth defect. If it wasn't their choice to even have sex, or if abortion could be life-saving or otherwise, I very much do believe in the power of choice.

[Alyxx Thorne]

I pretty much agree with Envi. Besides, this is a largely circumstancial thing for me. It depends on the situation. But in general, I am pro-choice.

[Bjossi]

I am pro-choice, but if I made a girl pregnant by accident I wouldn't want her to have an abortion unless some bad complications would arise later.

 

But this is a tough thing to debate with oneself. On one hand I hate excessive government control over people's lives, it shouldn't be their business if someone does drugs for example, but I find it difficult to map when exactly the developing new individual is developed enough to be considered "ready for life". I don't consider it mass-murder of 200 million babies when guys masturbate, I know that much...

[BTGBullseye]

First off, I consider it a baby as soon as the cell divides for the first time. Seen too many scans of active human brainwaves from small cell clusters many believe aren't human babies yet.

 

Second, unless it would be life threatening for either to not-terminate, there should be no option for abortion. If you don't feel like taking care of the baby after birth, put it up for adoption during the pregnancy... There's a massive waiting list, and most if not all adopters will help financially during the pregnancy. (this also includes rape victims, murdering an innocent doesn't ever fix mental/physical trauma)

[Bjossi]

(this also includes rape victims, murdering an innocent doesn't ever fix mental/physical trauma)

 

Carrying a baby conceived that way for 9 months would be a hellish experience for the mother to put it very mildly. Your insensitivity is surprising given the context.

[EnviMea]

(this also includes rape victims, murdering an innocent doesn't ever fix mental/physical trauma)

Every single second of every single day of those nine months would be plagued with the memory of what happened. It is insanely traumatic, and any tiny reminder of that just brings every emotion back. Giving a baby up for adoption itself is also a hugely emotional issue for a lot of mothers. It's simply not that easy. No, it isn't the baby's fault, and not going through with the pregnancy won't cure what happened, I agree with you there. But the torment could be just too much to bear. In my opinion, at the very least.

[Alyxx Thorne]

If I was raped and impregnated against my will, would I want to carry the child of someone I don't love and who didn't love me? That's the sort of question most people should ask themselves.

[EnviMea]

If I was raped and impregnated against my will, would I want to carry the child of someone I don't love and who didn't love me? That's the sort of question most people should ask themselves.

This exactly.

And, if you choose to keep the child instead of putting it up for adoption, I can't imagine being able to love the baby as unconditionally as you could a child you had with someone you don't abhor as much as someone that raped you. Not on purpose, but everytime you see the child, you'd see the rapist.

[Alyxx Thorne]

If I was raped and impregnated against my will, would I want to carry the child of someone I don't love and who didn't love me? That's the sort of question most people should ask themselves.

This exactly.

And, if you choose to keep the child instead of putting it up for adoption, I can't imagine being able to love the baby as unconditionally as you could a child you had with someone you don't abhor as much as someone that raped you. Not on purpose, but everytime you see the child, you'd see the rapist.

Yes, you'd always feel half of him in your child. It's like choosing between two evils. Either give birth to a child you'd never feel is truly your own, or kill it and live with the same you have denied the child of its life.

[Doom Shepherd]

I'm not certain how I should vote, because I'm a bit of both.

 

I'm not religious, so I don't have that whole "life is sacred" thing going on. And I very MUCH believe in contraception and education and preventative measures. But, as a trekkie, I can say I have an objection to killing an otherwise harmless life-form, except in cases of self-defense or where its quality of life is a consideration.

 

I also take the position that if killing a sapient being is wrong, and killing an animal is wrong (as the vegetarians keep telling me,) then killing a life form that will, left unmolested in its natural environment, become sapient, must also be wrong.(Anybody remember that Futurama episode "The Problem with Popplers?" If its' wrong to eat a poppler, then it seems to me just as wrong to abort a fetus.) So If I wouldn't harpoon a dolphin, or take a hatchet to a computer that's about to achieve self-awareness, or blast Commander Data with a phaser, well...

 

On the other hand, I do understand the occasional need to abort a fetus to protect the mother, or because it will have a severe disease like Cystic Fibrosis or Sirenomelia, or (and this is where it starts getting dicey for me) because it is SO unwanted that it is likely to suffer because of that, or be abused.

 

(My girlfriend was abused as a child. She tells me she'd rather have not existed. I am understandably biased against that position.)

 

So... I end up seeing abortion pretty much the same way I see war: As an evil which, while terrible, is also sometimes necessary, and as such should never be taken completely off the table as an option.

 

So I guess I'm Pro-Life, BUT Pro-Choice.

[Alyxx Thorne]

You could just make a long story short and say you're a bit of both.

[EnviMea]

I'm not certain how I should vote, because I'm a bit of both.

 

I'm not religious, so I don't have that whole "life is sacred" thing going on. And I very MUCH believe in contraception and education and preventative measures. But, as a trekkie, I can say I have an objection to killing an otherwise harmless life-form, except in cases of self-defense or where its quality of life is a consideration.

 

I also take the position that if killing a sapient being is wrong, and killing an animal is wrong (as the vegetarians keep telling me,) then killing a life form that will, left unmolested in its natural environment, become sapient, must also be wrong.(Anybody remember that Futurama episode "The Problem with Popplers?" If its' wrong to eat a poppler, then it seems to me just as wrong to abort a fetus.) So If I wouldn't harpoon a dolphin, or take a hatchet to a computer that's about to achieve self-awareness, or blast Commander Data with a phaser, well...

 

On the other hand, I do understand the occasional need to abort a fetus to protect the mother, or because it will have a severe disease like Cystic Fibrosis or Sirenomelia, or (and this is where it starts getting dicey for me) because it is SO unwanted that it is likely to suffer because of that, or be abused.

 

(My girlfriend was abused as a child. She tells me she'd rather have not existed. I am understandably biased against that position.)

 

So... I end up seeing abortion pretty much the same way I see war: As an evil which, while terrible, is also sometimes necessary, and as such should never be taken completely off the table as an option.

 

So I guess I'm Pro-Life, BUT Pro-Choice.

Kind of similar to my thoughts on the matter.

[Mr. 13]

I remain neutral. I believe we all have free will, and as such we are all given the right to choose for ourselves, however we must live with the consequences of our actions. There are hundreds of thousands of couples who have no ability to conceive children, and would be delighted to take an unwanted child from another (woman, couple, ?) and that to me seems like a viable option opposed to ending the life of the unborn child. Therefore, I'm 99% of the time against termination of the unborn child. In cases of disease I hold no opinion. While that may seem strange, I simply have not pondered it enough or have heard viable reasoning for either side, and I remain neutral.

 

I'm not so arrogant or pompous that I would force my opinion onto someone else, everyone has the right to choose for themselves, and should be able to live with their choices. As long as people realize that they are responsible and try not to make excuses I have no problem with other people's opinions.

 

Personally I think our society is too involved in each others business (I speak on behalf of the USA, I can't speak for others). We should just live and let live so long as it doesn't interfere with our life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness.

[Snowflake]

First off, I consider it a baby as soon as the cell divides for the first time. Seen too many scans of active human brainwaves from small cell clusters many believe aren't human babies yet.

 

I'm sorry but I must disagree with this statement, you can't have brainwave activity unless there is some kind of developing brain to speak of, in humans it happens in the 12th week I believe. Sorry and during early development a human fetus looks similar to a chicken one and a few other animals as well.

 

As for my opinion, I would like to say I am pro-life, (in developed countries) especially in the case of your average teen that figured they knew what they where doing, and decided to not use contraception. What I would not like to see happening is desensitization, where we get something like "free haircut with every abortion!" I know this sounds a little extreme but there were some extreme cases, for example: where a lady decided to get an abortion so being pregnant wouldn't ruin her vacation. Or because she doesn't feel like the guy she got knocked up by is up to her standards. So hey, free haircut as well!

 

However, what if your partners unborn child has a problem? Or if it was forced onto you? Here is where ultimately it is pro-choice and the choice should be based on if you can provide the support, and have the emotional strength necessary to do so.

 

Same thing in developing countries. Access to education and contraceptives can be limited. Not to mention you can barely survive yourself, let alone have another life to take care of. Ironically we live in a world where majority of people that don't really need abortions have access to the safe ones, and the people that do need them either don't have access or it is very unsafe.

[beefman62]

I am pro choice. i cannot say it is right or say its wrong, it all falls on the time and circumstances of the pregnancy.

[tisnman]

I wouldnt touch that topic unless i was put at knife point

[Alyxx Thorne]

I wouldnt touch that topic unless i was put at knife point

It certainly is a controversial one.

[BTGBullseye]

I wouldnt touch that topic unless i was put at knife point

It certainly is a controversial one.

All I posted was my stance, and that of the Catholic church.

[Alyxx Thorne]

I wouldnt touch that topic unless i was put at knife point

It certainly is a controversial one.

All I posted was my stance, and that of the Catholic church.

And I can understand it. It's a tough issue.

[Snowflake]

wow... so far I am really impressed that we can bring religion into the argument and not have it turn out to be a pointless/endless debate about weather or not God exists. Picking pro-choice and not bringing religion into the mix of killing a human because they have a soul, can be very tricky. In theory going pro-choice seems logical, since it will leave the ultimate decision to the woman. But the down side to that is there can be so many factors affecting your state of mind that you will not be able to make a clear headed decision and abort out of fear, then regretting it for the rest of your life. This is what I am hoping will not happen.