ROSS'S GAME DUNGEON: STRIFE

[Ross Scott]

Anarchy? There are several functioning nations (most are city-states), including the NCR, a fully industrialized republic controlling all of California, plus parts of Baja California, Oregon, and Nevada, and the Legion, a feudalistic barbarian horde that controls most of Arizona and Utah. The NCR produces it's own food and other goods, as do many towns (not all of them are self-sustaining, though). What are you referring to with this comment? The east coast? The entire west coast? The Mojave? The world in general?

I still think it ranges from anarchy to developing nations at best. All the power in the Fallout world feels fragile and has many exceptions beyond its influence. This isn't really the sign of a developed society. I say anarchy because in real anarchy, you DO have pockets of organization with different idealogies, because anarchy in itself is a temporary state. Like in Fallout 1. The ghouls are a giant cult, there are large groups of wandering bandits, you have small farming villages, you have small closed-knit communities like Junktown, you have a small theocracy with the brotherhood of steel, you have merchants doing whatever in the hub. Everybody is doing their own thing, that's anarchy. In later games, some larger groups emerging, but they're warring and their hold isn't secure at all, nobody has obvious overall control, that may not be anarchy, but it's not really society either. It's more like warring tribes with more technology. As for the water thing, in addition to no almost no area in any of the games looking like it has remotely enough food and water to last for more than a few weeks, in Fallout 3 they say the water is radioactive and plant life basically can't grow, yet somehow this has lasted hundreds of years without everyone dead. To me that's just lazy writing.

 

Anyway, I don't really want to go further into a Fallout debate, but I'll say that Fallout feels squarely post apocalyptic, rather than dystopian. Strife to me feels dystopian. Post apocalyptic to me is Fallout, The Road, Road Warrior, Book of Eli, Walking Dead. Civilization has collapsed and hasn't really rebuilt yet. Dystopian is 1984, Brave New World, Soylent Green, Equilibrium, Hunger Games. Established society exists, but has clear oppression and / or very hollow or twisted values along with it.

[ThePest179]

As for the water thing, in addition to no almost no area in any of the games looking like it has remotely enough food and water to last for more than a few weeks, in Fallout 3 they say the water is radioactive and plant life basically can't grow, yet somehow this has lasted hundreds of years without everyone dead. To me that's just lazy writing.

That's what retcons and fanfics are for.

 

Strife to me feels dystopian. Post apocalyptic to me is Fallout, The Road, Road Warrior, Book of Eli, Walking Dead. Civilization has collapsed and hasn't really rebuilt yet. Dystopian is 1984, Brave New World, Soylent Green, Equilibrium, Hunger Games. Established society exists, but has clear oppression and / or very hollow or twisted values along with it.

 

So then what would this timeline be?

[Goggles2114]

I found this one a few years ago and yes there is annoying level maze design I wish somebody would go back and fix I have to say strife is one of my favorite fps games. Then again it falls in that timeframe when I could tell what was going on screen and thanks to codemonkey awesome from fans has a not backward control setup (looking at you system shock.)

 

Now if only someone could redo the levels or at least fix the doors that always trigger alarms and bots that are constantly on alert status.....

 

On the bright side I have managed to avoid triggering alarms simply by exiting the conversation tree andcstabbing people in the face with the punch dagger.

 

Thanks for shining light on this underrated and overlooked gem Ross.

[Shinr]

That guy is using an engine port, the colors for his map screen aren't the original's.

 

EDIT: On his episode 1, he says he's using Zdoom. I mean it's possible my memory's completely off, but I remember TRYING to see what was there in the original, and I couldn't beyond just the very bottom pixels. Keep in mind, the port isn't necessarily 100% accurate to original Strife, just really damn close.

 

Used DosBOX, used NoClipping and Level warp to get to the Oracle:

 

 

 

 

 

[JudasPhysicist]

Damn the game is practically what I asked for when I was a kid. I always found it odd that everyone was attacking me in FPS games. It wasn't until Deus Ex that I found what I was looking for. Sane NPC's you can talk and reason with, no obligation to gun down every single living thing you see. If only I had internet access back in the late 90's. All I had for gaming was Duke 3D, Doom 2, Warcraft 2 and Tie Fighter.

[Goggles2114]

Oh by the wat, Ross?

 

As much as I like freeman's mind you gave it a good resting point and game dungeon is pretty awesome. Plus I totally respect your opinion about doom. Sorta disagree but that's mostly because I tend to play level packs over the actual game precisely because of the levels being annoying and pretty much just want to kill things with a shotgun.

[Ross Scott]

Used DosBOX, used NoClipping and Level warp to get to the Oracle:

Damn, I guess I remembered it completely wrong then. I'll mention that when I do a large follow-up episode later (I plan to do one after I cover 10 episodes).

[VeryShyPerson]

If that's supposed to be a plot spoiler, I can't tell. Its just some nondesript pixelly blob. I didnt played the game though so.

[Goggles2114]

Well as mentioned before Blackbird (your mission control type when you're out playing insurgent) mentions it when you see a second one after you beat one of the game bosses.

 

So less spoiler and more likely 'its been so long since playing with the original engine I'm going to be careful here.'

 

What bugs me is how few addon maps there are. Granted sure losing the source and having to build the thing from scratch sucks, but it's been playable for about what six? Eight years? I know Kaiser from doomworld has done a few things but that's about it.

 

Edit: and you can't even use 'but we didn't have the source' as an excuse even if you don't count that guy who's name I can't spell building a workalike in vavoom and letting everyone else build off of that. Why? Six years after system shock 2 came out it had several damned good fan missions, weapon mods, texture updates, and unlike the doom engine even having fan missions is a bit of a hack exploiting how the game looks for assets so it uses the new material instead of the official. Oh sure now it's as easy as dumping in a directory but NewDark is a literal game changed adding in proper support for a lot of things that had been hacked up bits the fan community had been using to keep the party going.

 

Ditto with Tron 2.0. It's even worse in that there's a hard limit of how much stuff you can add in and there's still an entirely new single player level set, assets from the Xbox version, and all kinds of stuff added to a game that isn't just mod unfriendly but actually if anything mod-hostile.

 

So yea given we not only have something based off doom but at least ever since 2008ish or so doombuilder supports Strife mapping, so there literally is no excuse. Well aside from the fact my own attempts have looked like mangled goat and I didn't want to share.

[VeryShyPerson]

I'm a little surprised that they lost the source code in the first place. Unless they didn't do backups, in which case its not that surprising at all.

[Goggles2114]

Well the source to system shock got lost.

[VeryShyPerson]

Wow.

[JudasPhysicist]

Wow.

 

Well considering their studio got shut down and who knows what happened to the computer the source code was on.

It's safe to assume the person who was responsible for it simply forgot it when he was moving out.

[Puppet Master]

It's like Christmas when you put out a new video, Ross; you're one of the few content creators who I'll set stuff down so that I can watch their new stuff.

[VeryShyPerson]

Wow.

 

Well considering their studio got shut down and who knows what happened to the computer the source code was on.

It's safe to assume the person who was responsible for it simply forgot it when he was moving out.

 

Still I would have expected someone to have a backup copy of it somewhere. Did people not back up so much in those days. I know floppy disks are small but tape drives were available too.

[BTGBullseye]

Wow.

 

Well considering their studio got shut down and who knows what happened to the computer the source code was on.

It's safe to assume the person who was responsible for it simply forgot it when he was moving out.

 

Still I would have expected someone to have a backup copy of it somewhere. Did people not back up so much in those days. I know floppy disks are small but tape drives were available too.

They may have had plenty of backups, but after 10 years most floppies and tapes get corrupted...

[techdude]

Ross,

 

Your comment reminded me that there is a mouse plugin now for System Shock. It is a little clunky to use because you have to use a key combination to switch between aim mode and "interact" mode, but it works well enough

 

 

 

. Of course, System Shock for me was a huge frustration because it is the biggest maze in the world. I hate maze game design. At any rate, if you are feeling really brave for the mazes, it would be interesting to have a game dungeon for System Shock.

 

Keep up the great work. I can't wait for more FM, RGD, CP, Machinima Movie, or whatever else you want to make. Have fun!

 

--

techdude

[RandomGuy]

Anarchy? There are several functioning nations (most are city-states), including the NCR, a fully industrialized republic controlling all of California, plus parts of Baja California, Oregon, and Nevada, and the Legion, a feudalistic barbarian horde that controls most of Arizona and Utah. The NCR produces it's own food and other goods, as do many towns (not all of them are self-sustaining, though). What are you referring to with this comment? The east coast? The entire west coast? The Mojave? The world in general?

I still think it ranges from anarchy to developing nations at best. All the power in the Fallout world feels fragile and has many exceptions beyond its influence. This isn't really the sign of a developed society. I say anarchy because in real anarchy, you DO have pockets of organization with different idealogies, because anarchy in itself is a temporary state. Like in Fallout 1. The ghouls are a giant cult, there are large groups of wandering bandits, you have small farming villages, you have small closed-knit communities like Junktown, you have a small theocracy with the brotherhood of steel, you have merchants doing whatever in the hub. Everybody is doing their own thing, that's anarchy. In later games, some larger groups emerging, but they're warring and their hold isn't secure at all, nobody has obvious overall control, that may not be anarchy, but it's not really society either. It's more like warring tribes with more technology. As for the water thing, in addition to no almost no area in any of the games looking like it has remotely enough food and water to last for more than a few weeks, in Fallout 3 they say the water is radioactive and plant life basically can't grow, yet somehow this has lasted hundreds of years without everyone dead. To me that's just lazy writing.

 

Anyway, I don't really want to go further into a Fallout debate, but I'll say that Fallout feels squarely post apocalyptic, rather than dystopian. Strife to me feels dystopian. Post apocalyptic to me is Fallout, The Road, Road Warrior, Book of Eli, Walking Dead. Civilization has collapsed and hasn't really rebuilt yet. Dystopian is 1984, Brave New World, Soylent Green, Equilibrium, Hunger Games. Established society exists, but has clear oppression and / or very hollow or twisted values along with it.

 

Are you saying that because no one has obvious control over everything? The NCR has basically renovated the entire west coast, and has a very strong grasp on their territory, to the point where they're basically a modern nation, having their own industry, professional army, government, and even currency. Other clearly established societies exist, even if they tend to be small scale, like Vault City in Fallout 2 (seems pretty dystopian and is very high tech, well established, sell sufficient, and can swallow up surrounding territory) and the Legion (though, they may fall in to the "very weak grasp on power" category given that they basically disband after their leader's death).

 

I just don't agree with the idea that Fallout is really post-apocalyptic, at least not as of Fallout: New Vegas, due to organizations like the NCR, and the overall feeling of the world. Civilization HAS rebuilt, and the Mojave region doesn't seem any less civilized than the old west of the 1800s. The southwest and east haven't been seen for a while, but were well on the path to reconstruction last time we did see them. The west coast is entirely rebuilt to nearly modern levels. The Arizona/New Mexico/etc. area has been unified under a brutal, militaristic empire that, for the most part, is extremely low tech, but has random bits of modern technology dispersed throughout. The Mojave is the new frontier, and while there's no main government to it at the time, there will by the end of the game. The Utah region seems to be the only place we know of that still seems somewhat anarchic, being dotted with civilized city-states, such as New Canaan, but mostly inhabited my independent stone-age societies that just so happen to have found modern weapons.

 

Well, Fallout 3 is... Fallout 3. Kinda the black sheep of the series, and by far the least logical.

[JudasPhysicist]

I still think it ranges from anarchy to developing nations at best. All the power in the Fallout world feels fragile and has many exceptions beyond its influence. This isn't really the sign of a developed society. I say anarchy because in real anarchy, you DO have pockets of organization with different idealogies, because anarchy in itself is a temporary state. Like in Fallout 1. The ghouls are a giant cult, there are large groups of wandering bandits, you have small farming villages, you have small closed-knit communities like Junktown, you have a small theocracy with the brotherhood of steel, you have merchants doing whatever in the hub. Everybody is doing their own thing, that's anarchy. In later games, some larger groups emerging, but they're warring and their hold isn't secure at all, nobody has obvious overall control, that may not be anarchy, but it's not really society either. It's more like warring tribes with more technology. As for the water thing, in addition to no almost no area in any of the games looking like it has remotely enough food and water to last for more than a few weeks, in Fallout 3 they say the water is radioactive and plant life basically can't grow, yet somehow this has lasted hundreds of years without everyone dead. To me that's just lazy writing.

 

Anyway, I don't really want to go further into a Fallout debate, but I'll say that Fallout feels squarely post apocalyptic, rather than dystopian. Strife to me feels dystopian. Post apocalyptic to me is Fallout, The Road, Road Warrior, Book of Eli, Walking Dead. Civilization has collapsed and hasn't really rebuilt yet. Dystopian is 1984, Brave New World, Soylent Green, Equilibrium, Hunger Games. Established society exists, but has clear oppression and / or very hollow or twisted values along with it.

 

Are you saying that because no one has obvious control over everything? The NCR has basically renovated the entire west coast, and has a very strong grasp on their territory, to the point where they're basically a modern nation, having their own industry, professional army, government, and even currency. Other clearly established societies exist, even if they tend to be small scale, like Vault City in Fallout 2 (seems pretty dystopian and is very high tech, well established, sell sufficient, and can swallow up surrounding territory) and the Legion (though, they may fall in to the "very weak grasp on power" category given that they basically disband after their leader's death).

 

I just don't agree with the idea that Fallout is really post-apocalyptic, at least not as of Fallout: New Vegas, due to organizations like the NCR, and the overall feeling of the world. Civilization HAS rebuilt, and the Mojave region doesn't seem any less civilized than the old west of the 1800s. The southwest and east haven't been seen for a while, but were well on the path to reconstruction last time we did see them. The west coast is entirely rebuilt to nearly modern levels. The Arizona/New Mexico/etc. area has been unified under a brutal, militaristic empire that, for the most part, is extremely low tech, but has random bits of modern technology dispersed throughout. The Mojave is the new frontier, and while there's no main government to it at the time, there will by the end of the game. The Utah region seems to be the only place we know of that still seems somewhat anarchic, being dotted with civilized city-states, such as New Canaan, but mostly inhabited my independent stone-age societies that just so happen to have found modern weapons.

 

Well, Fallout 3 is... Fallout 3. Kinda the black sheep of the series, and by far the least logical.

 

 

I don't think you should count Fallout 3 and onwards as the old Fallout series, it was built on the foundation of Fargo's Fallout but it had Bethesda's and Zenimax's dirty paw prints all over them. They are similar things but not the same game series continuing.

[Goggles2114]

Oh!

 

One thing I remembered. Harris? Guy warned about having a trap you can't avoid? There actually is a warning but you have to talk to the prisoner in the dungeon you're storming.