The vaccination debate.

[BTGBullseye]

Debate what? I saw nothing that could be debated.

[ThePest179]

Thus proving my point.

[VeryShyPerson]

What is going on.

[BTGBullseye]

Thus proving my point.

Your point being that you want me to come up with something to debate?

[ThePest179]

Thus proving my point.

Your point being that you want me to come up with something to debate?

 

Thus proving you don't want to argue against a point you can't counter. Let me repost what Doom had said:

 

I have the paperwork that showed what was in my blood... Why do people insist that everyone is the same as the normal, and can't possibly have a faster acting immune system?

 

One data point (that at present is unverifiable) has never, and will never constitute evidence. If your education in science progressed beyond the most elementary possible points, you should know that already.

 

Yeah, you might have a super immune system. On the other hand, you could ALSO be super susceptible to the placebo effect.

 

Of course, if you have a super immune system, that means that beneficial mutations exist and you have to throw all your weight behind evolution now.

[BTGBullseye]

And I still don't see anything in there that would be something to debate. If you're wondering about the placebo stuff, I'm immune to that particular effect. If you're going to go on the subject of mutations, evolution, and nonsense... I'm not going to discuss that here. That's for another thread entirely.

[ThePest179]

And I still don't see anything in there that would be something to debate. If you're wondering about the placebo stuff, I'm immune to that particular effect. If you're going to go on the subject of mutations, evolution, and nonsense... I'm not going to discuss that here. That's for another thread entirely.

 

Well, if you can't see anything to debate (even though he basically said your "proof" doesn't work as it is only one data point and unverifiable) then

I won't go on about that, but if you do have a faster acting immune system, that would dictate that over time such an immune system would be created to fulfill the need to fight disease. Although we can discuss that more in another thread of your choosing.

[Otto]

... Diseases are coming back and that is not a good thing.

 

I wasn't aware of this. How are they coming back and what changed to make this so?

[VeryShyPerson]

Measles, easily preventable, is outbreaking in a lot of places recently. It might've been eradicated if not for the anti-vaccininators.

[BTGBullseye]

Measles, easily preventable, is outbreaking in a lot of places recently. It might've been eradicated if not for the anti-vaccininators.

It wasn't because of them that it's spreading... It's the same with all diseases; take the easiest scapegoat. It used to be a punishment from god for sinning, then people not washing their hands, then undercooked food, then bad diets, now it's people not getting vaccinations. Enough already.

 

The reality is that viruses mutate, and that many organizations and governments are experimenting with directed viral mutations for use as a weapon that could be used without being blamed. It is possible that it is a test release from someone, or even a naturally occurring mutation of the same disease, you can't tell me you know for sure.

[BTGBullseye]

In addition, concerning measles: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/cancer-measles-virus_n_5331739.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

 

Might not have this treatment if the virus was completely eradicated.

[ThePest179]

The reality is that viruses mutate, and that many organizations and governments are experimenting with directed viral mutations for use as a weapon that could be used without being blamed. It is possible that it is a test release from someone, or even a naturally occurring mutation of the same disease, you can't tell me you know for sure.

 

True, viruses mutate. True, many organizations have made viruses into weapons. However, you have no proof that this was an accidental or purposeful release of a modified virus, and the statement that this could be a natural mutation is underscored by two points: first, you would have to put your views for evolution, as the mutation of a disease is verifiable evidence for it (virus X evolved so it wouldn't die off), second, these new virus outbreaks have occurred primarily in the anti-vaxer crowd, not people who got the vaccine. Also, if it was a bio weapon, then wouldn't it be able to "workaround" the vaccinated crowd, considering that most first world countries (and a few third world ones, too) have mandatory vaccines?

[VeryShyPerson]

For what it matters, I think polio was nearly considered eradicated in North America. At least until some Amish community (who i think also don't vaccinate) had it reappear. I cant remember anything more though I think it was a few years ago. Maybe i got it wrong.

[Vapymid]

Measles, easily preventable, is outbreaking in a lot of places recently. It might've been eradicated if not for the anti-vaccininators.

It wasn't because of them that it's spreading...

 

I think it is very clear that these outbreaks are happening purely because of incomplete vaccinations. Only non-immunised people are affected and they are happening in areas of low take up of vaccines.

 

No need for conspiracy or sudden mutations here...

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

It isn't happening ONLY in the non-immunized areas...

[Vapymid]

Well, in the UK it was.

 

In general, roughly 90% of immune population is needed to prevent a measles outbreak (this differs from disease to disease). The disease does not spread exponentially among the non-immune 10% because the remaining 90% act as dampers, breaking transmission from person to person. If the number of immune people falls down below that threshold the infection spreads (it's similar to controlling nuclear fission by neutron absorbers ).

 

But even when the disease spreads - only non-immune people are affected... According to the Wales health authorities data, the effectiveness of the MMR vaccine during the last year's outbreak was from 95% to 99%.

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

And yet, the disease itself can be used as a cure for blood cancer... So why are we trying to completely eradicate it?

[Vapymid]

But this disease in the wild is still very bad, even if the organism that causes it can be useful in controlled conditions.

 

It's similar to Botox - you don't normally want to find it in your soup but lots of people are using it on regular basis for cosmetic treatment. Of snake venom, for example...

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

But without it being in the wild, we wouldn't have it in ANY environment, controlled or not.

[Vapymid]

Well, now we have it - there is no need for it to be in the wild. It can be stored in labs, to be used for research. In fact, I think it must be preserved, because it's needed for making the vaccine.

 

But, actually, I don't think measles pathogen is an endangered species - there is plenty of it around to survive, all we need is keep it sufficiently suppressed to avoid epidemics/outbreaks.

 

Regards