Ultranationalism

[ThePest179]

There are no US advisors in or near Ukraine.

 

Oh. What makes you think so?

 

http://online.wsj.com/articles/estonian-officer-abducted-near-border-with-russia-1409928475

 

I've heard about this too. Probably disrupted some local smugglers operation and they pulled their strings with the authorities. Or could it be a revenge for Obama's tour of Tallinn? Time will tell, but I don't envy that Kohver guy, anyway...

 

Regards

 

Where have people been getting yhe idea that there are US advisors in Ukraine? RT. Or Russian vlogs. Yeah, I think I'll take that idea with a grain of salt. And as for that Estonian guy, that's pretty horrible. There hasn't been an indication yet that he was a smuggler, as far as I can tell.

[Vapymid]

No, it's not that he was a smuggler but the Estonians are saying he was a special agent investigating cross-border smuggling. My personal inference is that he may have become sufficient nuisance to the local contrabandists that they have arranged with the police to arrest him on suspicion of espionage.

 

About the US presence in Ukraine? Well, the US sends "advisors" to all conflicts where they have an interest (that's pretty much every conflict on Earth) so the probability is that they did so in Ukraine as well. Even Western media is talking about the US providing Ukraine with intelligence support, military training and advice as already de facto taking place.

 

This is not even counting the earlier reports of Academi or similar companies supplying mercenaries to Ukraine (largely attributed to RT but, as far as I can see, originating from Germany with reference to some US intelligence sources).

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

No, it's not that he was a smuggler but the Estonians are saying he was a special agent investigating cross-border smuggling.

 

Oh. I just hope he gets out soon.

 

Even Western media is talking about the US providing Ukraine with intelligence support, military training and advice as already de facto taking place.

 

Regards

 

After Russia carved out two pieces of Ukraine and is now invading it.

[Vapymid]

Not after. At best - simultaneously, but most likely even before the February coup in Kiev.

 

We know that the State Department was directly shaping and instructing the future interim government even months before the coup happened. The 5 billion dollars which Nuland admitted the US (officially) spent on "democracy" in Ukraine is a lot of money and it buys you a lot in a country where power is concentrated in a very small group of people, so you can be sure your "advice" will be listened to, when needed.

 

I have no reasons to believe that the Department of Defense did not establish the necessary connections ahead of time in a similar, if a bit more clandestine fashion.

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

Not after. At best - simultaneously, but most likely even before the February coup in Kiev.

 

We know that the State Department was directly shaping and instructing the future interim government even months before the coup happened. The 5 billion dollars which Nuland admitted the US (officially) spent on "democracy" in Ukraine is a lot of money and it buys you a lot in a country where power is concentrated in a very small group of people, so you can be sure your "advice" will be listened to, when needed.

 

I have no reasons to believe that the Department of Defense did not establish the necessary connections ahead of time in a similar, if a bit more clandestine fashion.

 

Regards

 

Another stellar conspiracy theory. You're basically trying to tell me that Euromaidan was staged and that the current government in Ukraine is a US puppet. That is really, really, stupid.

[Vapymid]

Another stellar conspiracy theory.

 

I'm glad you like it!

 

Seriously, yes, this is my working hypothesis. Not strictly speaking a "puppet regime" in the sense that they only do what they are told by the US DoS but I'm 100% sure that the US exerts strong influence on the key people in the government, in the armed forces and among the "oligarchy".

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

I'm glad you like it!

 

Nice to know I've at least made you happy.

 

Seriously, yes, this is my working hypothesis. Not strictly speaking a "puppet regime" in the sense that they only do what they are told by the US DoS but I'm 100% sure that the US exerts strong influence on the key people in the government, in the armed forces and among the "oligarchy".

 

Regards

 

They're just beginning to and will continue to for as long as Russia drives forward, but before? Not at all. TBH, They might just cut ties with the US if they perceive an immanent "Western Betrayal" scenario.

[Vapymid]

 

Regarding the timing - do you the intercept of Nuland's phone call to Geoff Pyatt before the final coup on Maidan in February?

 

KIvRljAaNgg

 

 

"Yats", "Klich"? She clearly is in charge and is instructing the Ambassador to just go and tell the Ukrainians who will and who will not be in the government. Oh, and of course, "fuck the EU"

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

 

Regarding the timing - do you the intercept of Nuland's phone call to Geoff Pyatt before the final coup on Maidan in February?

 

KIvRljAaNgg

 

 

"Yats", "Klich"? She clearly is in charge and is instructing the Ambassador to just go and tell the Ukrainians who will and who will not be in the government. Oh, and of course, "fuck the EU"

 

Regards

 

What does this prove now? Is this your "smoking gun"? That's pretty low for evidence.

 

Also love how you're calling Maidan a coup when Yanukovich was abusing power and being a dick to everyone.

[Vapymid]

Yanukovich being an asshole does not stop the coup being a coup. Two separate things and two wrongs don't make a right.

 

A smoking gun? No, it's more like a CCTV snapshot of the bullet leaving the barrel...

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

Yanukovich being an asshole does not stop the coup being a coup. Two separate things and two wrongs don't make a right.

 

A smoking gun? No, it's more like a CCTV snapshot of the bullet leaving the barrel...

 

Regards

 

It was more like a revolution than a straight up coup.

 

What did your video "prove" again?

[Vapymid]

That the US was running the show behind the scenes with the opposition?

 

Here is a quote from a blog of Jack Matlock, a former US Ambassador to USSR (under Reagan and Bush the First) which I found today:

 

"The American Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs discussed with our ambassador in Kyiv, on an easily intercepted cell phone call, possible replacements of the Ukrainian prime minister in terms that suggested that she was making an appointment. (“Yats. He’s the man!”) And indeed, “Yats” became prime minister after an armed rebellion. His government, which replaced a corrupt but constitutionally elected regime, received instant recognition from the United States, invitations to Washington and visits not only by American senators but also by the American Vice President (who, during his 2008 run for the presidency, had boasted that he could best “stand up to Vladimir Putin”—whatever that meant), and—of all people—the director of the Central Intelligence Agency."

 

The entire blog entry is actually an interesting reading and I feel somewhat vindicated in that it actually says, rather more eloquently, more-or-less what I have been trying to post here all along. For contrast - read the last comment by Jon Gundersen, a current DoS official. I thought I was reading some kind of mirror-image "Pravda", for a moment...

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

That the US was running the show behind the scenes with the opposition?

 

Regards

 

Not at all. They were most likely just discussing their preferred political candidate. In no way, shape, or form did they ever suggest or imply that they were puppeteers.

 

Your blog (which is a far cry from a source like CNN, BBC, or Reuters) is likely just a right wing fanatic who is disgruntled by the current administration.

[BTGBullseye]

Your blog (which is a far cry from a source like CNN, BBC, or Reuters) is likely just a right wing fanatic who is disgruntled by the current administration.

Your exclusivity to mainstream liberal media blinds you to the reality surrounding you.

[Vapymid]

Right wing fanatic? Hardly, even by European standards... Did you read the article? I really recommend you do.

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

Right wing fanatic? Hardly, even by European standards... Did you read the article? I really recommend you do.

 

Regards

 

I probably misread this guy's character (paranoia on my part), but the phone call is still merely a discussion on who would be the most favorable man for the US in terms of friendly and not an evil dictatorship, and discussing candidates who could be alternatives to "Yats". Again, they never gave an indication that they were puppeteers.

 

Your blog (which is a far cry from a source like CNN, BBC, or Reuters) is likely just a right wing fanatic who is disgruntled by the current administration.

Your exclusivity to mainstream liberal media blinds you to the reality surrounding you.

 

Out of all the news hubs I mentioned, the only one that's "liberal" is CNN, while BBC and Reuters are simply centrists (but as truthful as possible). The term "liberal media" is largely a fear mongering tactic used by the Tea Party, GOP, Fox, and many on the right wing.

[BTGBullseye]

You obviously haven't been paying any attention to the wording they use when talking about the two sides of the political spectrum... They use many less than obvious psychological tactics in their writing that praises liberals, and condemns conservatives.

 

That being said, I know of nothing that the liberals have done in the past 30 years that has helped the country, and many that has hurt it economically and politically. The problem is that they are also master propagandists, and have convinced many supposedly 'smart' people that their actions will benefit the country in the long run.

[ThePest179]

You obviously haven't been paying any attention to the wording they use when talking about the two sides of the political spectrum... They use many less than obvious psychological tactics in their writing that praises liberals, and condemns conservatives.

 

That being said, I know of nothing that the liberals have done in the past 30 years that has helped the country, and many that has hurt it economically and politically. The problem is that they are also master propagandists, and have convinced many supposedly 'smart' people that their actions will benefit the country in the long run.

 

There isn't a single cent of truth in that statement at all. You are so delusional that you're purposely ignoring anything that doesn't fit your own bullshit propaganda of "liberals are worse than Hitler". There is way too many lies for me to digest right now.

[BTGBullseye]

You're once again putting assumptions out as fact. I don't hate liberals, or many of their ideas, and I most certainly don't consider them worse than Hitler. I dislike the WAY they try and push their ideas, and force others to share the same ideals or be thoroughly ridiculed with hyperbole and truly hateful statements when they express an opinion. I am actually more to the left of center whenever I've been tested.

 

When I answer truthfully, using the same exact opinions I express here, this is the result... (coincidentally quite close to the Dalai Lama, Alexis Tsipras, François Hollande, Nelson Mandela, and Gandhi)

(obtained from http://www.politicalcompass.org)

Also, make sure you read the FAQ about the chart before saying anything about it.

 

If you can prove that what I said in either of my posts is false, do so. Otherwise you are making a personal attack, and that is against the forum rules.

[ThePest179]

I don't hate liberals, or many of their ideas,

 

This would imply otherwise:

 

That being said, I know of nothing that the liberals have done in the past 30 years that has helped the country, and many that has hurt it economically and politically. The problem is that they are also master propagandists, and have convinced many supposedly 'smart' people that their actions will benefit the country in the long run.

 

Very critical of liberal policies, and implying that "liberals and like minded people are idiots".

 

and I most certainly don't consider them worse than Hitler.

 

That was a Godwin on my part, I apologize.

 

I dislike the WAY they try and push their ideas, and force others to share the same ideals or be thoroughly ridiculed with hyperbole and truly hateful statements when they express an opinion.

 

And your proof of this is? I can say the same for the right.