Ultranationalism

[Doom Shepherd]

Also, today's news...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

(CNN) -- Ukrainian officials say they have photographic proof that Russian forces are operating in eastern Ukraine.

 

A dossier obtained Monday by CNN shows what Ukrainian officials say are images of well-equipped gunmen operating in eastern Ukraine who look similar to photographs of Russian forces taken in Crimea, Russia and during Russia's 2008 invasion of Georgia.

 

CNN cannot independently confirm the photographs, some of which were first published in the New York Times.

 

The revelations follow reporting last week by CNN's Arwa Damon citing Ukrainian security officials as saying they had arrested a Russian military officer and a woman Ukrainian officials say is a Russian intelligence agent.

 

If genuine, the photographs also back up western leaders who have claimed Russia's involvement. Last week, NATO commander Gen. Philip Breedlove wrote on the alliance's blog that what pro-Russian groups have described as an organic uprising is in reality a "well planned and organized" military operation orchestrated by Moscow.

 

"There has been broad unity in the international community about the connection between Russia and some of the armed militants in eastern Ukraine, and the photos presented by the Ukrainians last week only further confirm this, which is why U.S. officials have continued to make that case," State Department spokesman Jen Psaki told CNN on Monday

[Vapymid]

Russia, Russia, UBER ALLES...

 

What do you mean by that?

 

Regards

 

Trying to make the Jews register? (Even if they're not doing so. because they think it's just provocation.) What do YOU think that suggests?

 

I see. The reason I asked was because you obviously alluded to the German national anthem but it could be interpreted in a number of ways - as a symbol of national unification idea (the original meaning), as reference to the Nazi Germany when it was still in use, or as a reference to the latent nationalism which it represents now (the stanza that is not officially sung aloud anymore but understood to still be there) as the same anthem is still being used by today's Germany...

 

OK, a comparison to Nazis it is then. Well, I don't think this prank has been sanctioned by Putin in any way. While there is undoubtedly some grass-root antisemitism in Russia (where isn't?), Putin has a strong support from pro-Jewish lobby, some of his closest friends are Jewish and his "national idea" (the ideology with which they are trying to replace the "scientific communism" and USSR) revolves all around the WWII and the struggle against Nazism.

 

In Ukraine? I think antisemitism is stronger there (historically), although, ironically, it is by far stronger in the West of the country, but also in the South, near Odessa. That thing in Donetsk region? - again, I doubt it was authorised even by the local insurgency as it looks too primitive and crude. In times of unrest, though, these nasties will crawl out in the open and to an extent one should expect things like that to appear on both sides of the lines. It would become much more worrying if there will appear any indications of official support of these lunatics from either side.

 

Regards

Edited April 22, 2014 by Guest (see edit history)

[Vapymid]

Also, today's news...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/21/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_t2

 

I knew you would bring that up...

 

(CNN) -- Ukrainian officials say they have photographic proof that Russian forces are operating in eastern Ukraine.

 

A dossier obtained Monday by CNN shows what Ukrainian officials say are images of well-equipped gunmen operating in eastern Ukraine who look similar to photographs of Russian forces taken in Crimea, Russia and during Russia's 2008 invasion of Georgia.

 

Of course there are Russian "advisers" there, just like there were (and probably still are) US "advisers" on Maidan. It's back to the Great Game now. It has [re]started.

 

The revelations follow reporting last week by CNN's Arwa Damon citing Ukrainian security officials as saying they had arrested a Russian military officer and a woman Ukrainian officials say is a Russian intelligence agent.

 

I read that in the local media earlier. Don't know about the officer - he is probably genuine. The girl though - looks like she is an overenthusiastic activist who believed in her own fantasies. Or maybe she was simply incompetent. She has tweeted the world + dog and had a FB page detailing her "special agent" activities and that's what alerted the police.

 

Last week, NATO commander Gen. Philip Breedlove wrote on the alliance's blog that what pro-Russian groups have described as an organic uprising is in reality a "well planned and organized" military operation orchestrated by Moscow.

 

Well, what do you expect the good General to say? And he is probably at least 50% right, too. However, it is clear that the locals are genuinely disturbed by the events in Kiev and want to do something about it. If it wasn't the case, no amount of foreign interference would have been enough to stir that much trouble.

 

But of course, when "Maidan" activists seize buildings in Kiev it is perfectly legal, according to Nuland, but when it happens in Donetsk - it's "orchestrated".

 

Regards

 

P.S. Well, BBC now thinks that the evidence "endorsed by the Obama administration" is a bit rubbish, actually:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27104904

[Doom Shepherd]

In the interest of full disclosure... it's come to light that the Jewish Registration flyers are probably NOT the act of the Pro-Russian separatists, and are most likely the doings of an opportunistic scam artist (or organized crime.)

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/ukraine.asp

[Doom Shepherd]

"We're in ur East, detainin' ur journalists. And actin' weird."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/american-journalist-detained-eastern-ukraine-n86816

 

Ostrovsky told Huffington Post in an interview last month that he has encountered overwhelming hostility in trying to report from the region.

 

“I think it’s because of the propaganda that Russia is broadcasting over the television networks 24/7, brainwashing the people out here into thinking that the entire world has come out against Russia,” he said in a phone interview from the Crimea regional capital of Simferopol.

 

Exploiting traditional Russian xenophobia is another old, but winning, strategy. Putin is a fan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/world/europe/xenophobic-chill-descends-on-moscow.html?_r=0

[Doom Shepherd]

Ukrainian officials are claiming Russian tanks have crossed their border.

Russians are "Nuh-UH!"

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/world/europe/ukraine-russia-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Vapymid]

I have to say this puzzled me a bit at first. I mean - three tanks. Why would Putin send three tanks? Three hundred would have been more like it...

 

Then I thought, maybe those were Ukrainians' own tanks, which got stranded and then mis-reported as Russian?

 

But it appears it is simpler than that:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27829773

 

A paramilitary in the rebel-held town of Snizhne, where the tanks were first sighted, told Reuters news agency: "We got them from a military warehouse."

 

Contrary to initial reports that the tanks are Russian-made T-72s, one of the most commonly used models in late Soviet times, rebels and bloggers have identified them as T-64s, an older model manufactured in Ukraine.

 

Of course, this may turn out to be something else entirely...

 

Regards

[Vapymid]

More on that 3 tanks saga, but still nothing conclusive...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28174104

 

Success!

 

EDIT:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28177020

[Doom Shepherd]

So, how about that "Fascist" plane full of enemy doctors and AIDS activists, brave Russian separatists?

[Vapymid]

Well, yes, what specifically about it?

 

Regards

[Doom Shepherd]

Well, yes, what specifically about it?

 

Regards

 

The separatists shot down a plane full of civilians.

[Vapymid]

They almost certainly did.

 

Civilian wide-body airliners are great big targets flying straight and level and, as the saying goes in SAM forces, unless due care is taken, the system will hit the easiest target of all available.

 

Obviously, care was not taken and whoever did this - the battery commander and the operators - were grossly negligent. Even if they were given wrong intelligence in the first place they shouldn't have taken the shot before positively verifying that the target was legitimate. Or, if there was a legitimate target in the area they should have made sure that the system and the missile tracked the target and not the B777 (they could command the missile to self-destruct if they saw that it was following a wrong target).

 

It is unlikely, though, that it has been done on purpose (if it was done by the separatists).

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

Russian troops pouring over the border between Russia and Ukraine. Fucking beutiful.

[Vapymid]

The US is baiting Russia to start an open invasion. What is their ultimate goal - that is the question that interests me the most.

 

There is only one real way for resolving this crisis - the government is in Kiev must withdraw the troops and negotiate with the South-Eastern regions. But for now the US won't have any of this, they won't allow Poroshenko to negotiate and he has no power to do it on his own even if he wanted to - he does not control the army, nor pretty much anything else.

 

No Russian government will allow Ukraine to be taken into the EU or into NATO. If there will be a real attempt to do so, the Russian army will be in Kiev before anyone will be able to do as much as say "oh, shit!".

 

Russia will also not stop supporting the rebels until a negotiated solution is reached between them and Kiev. So, continuing the "we don't speak to terrorists" line will only prolong the agony and increase casualties. Clearly, the State Department people must understand this.

 

Do they really want to force the Russians into taking Kiev by force in order to totally severe any ties between Europe and Russia and push Europe into further depression and complete dependency on the US?

 

If yes, that will be a new moral low for the Western world. That will also be totally moronic on the part of the European governments to sleepwalk their countries into.

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

There is only one real way for resolving this crisis - the government is in Kiev must withdraw the troops and negotiate with the South-Eastern regions.

 

Regards

 

Their ultimate goal was to have those regions annexed by Russia. Tell me that that's a reasonable demand when they have been proven to be little more than brutal thugs, in addition to largely being foreigners instead of actual native Ukrainians. They initiated hostilities because the rest of the country didn't want to be a Russian puppet.

[Vapymid]

You have a very politically correct view on the situation. Which is also totally wrong and naive.

 

I understand that Russia has long been the bogeyman-du-jour in the West and the constant drips of embedded propaganda in the media have made the Western public automatically assume that Russian intentions are always hostile, aggressive and immoral. Anything that Russia does must necessarily mean that we should oppose it because they just can't do anything good, right?

 

Well, sometimes you need to think a bit beyond the party line, really. Just look up some information on the history of Ukraine and Russia to try to understand the situation today. Also, it would help to track back the origins of the current fighting and see who started it in the first place - a hint: not the "separatists", actually.

 

The situation is bad and it isn't going to become any better on its own. There was a hope that once Poroshenko would be elected, he will get the US permission to calm the things down but, clearly, he hadn't.

 

Maybe you remember those days?

 

Poroshenko - "I'm going to order an immediate cease-fire tomorrow"

The army - "Like hell you are"

Poroshenko - "OK, I'm not going to order an immediate cease-fire tomorrow"

 

With the West unwilling to negotiate, I hate to admit it, but I now hope that Russia will intervene decisively and force a settlement and soon.

 

If it isn't done quickly then the country will dissolve into a festering war zone - think Syria or Iraq, but only in the centre of Europe and fueled by local nationalism and chauvinism. This will be a big disaster as this will not stop at that.

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

Also, it would help to track back the origins of the current fighting and see who started it in the first place - a hint: not the "separatists", actually.

 

Regards

 

Big big lie. You're as much a mouthpiece for Russia Today as BTG is for Fox News. You have very little to back up your words.

[BTGBullseye]

a mouthpiece for Russia Today as BTG is for Fox News.

Why does everyone think I watch Fox News all the time? I almost never get any news from them.

[ThePest179]

a mouthpiece for Russia Today as BTG is for Fox News.

Why does everyone think I watch Fox News all the time? I almost never get any news from them.

 

My mistake. Conservapedia.