Team Fortress 2

[Eedo Baba]

Played some TF2. It's been months but I'm still pissed they nerfed the Shortstop. Why not nerf the weapons that deserve it, like the backburner?

 

I partially agree. I just think the nerf should be tied to the set so it's not a blatant upgrade.

 

Also, I don't really see what's wrong with the Backburner. I never use it, but I'd still like to know.

 

Well, the set bonus I think is fair. I think the downside to any set bonus is forcing you to use items you might not want. Though sure, if they wanted to put a small downside on the set, like -10% random crit frequency or something, I wouldn't object.

 

About the Backburner, it's just generally accepted to be overpowered. For the general mindless "spray and pray" pyro, it has no downsides. It does more raw damage and uses an easily exploitable crit system. The airblast cost is completely irrelevant because these are the kind of pyros that generally ignore airblasts anyway.

[Karl]

A Scout's main disadvantages are the reload time of his scattergun, his low hp, and the fact that he has to dive into close range to get a good meatshot on his opponent.

 

The Shortstop along with the set took away all of these disadvantages. It was essentially a troll machine. You were given more hp, with a secondary weapon that gave hp upon hits. That weapon also could be used on invisible spies.

 

The fish was a reskin of the bat, but it also gave away dead ringer spies. If you hit a spy, and it didn't say "FISH KILL," he was still out there.

 

The Shortstop gave you the power to attack from long ranges. Not to mention it had a reload time akin to the pistol, automatically loading four shots into it, whereas the scattergun would have to reload all 6 shots one at a time.

 

All of this let scouts just run around 20 feet from their enemies just sniping them. If they got hurt, big whoop. Throw some milk on em and keep pestering them from far away. I'm glad they nerfed the shortstop. Now I think it's actually balanced. Scouts should not be able to attack that far away with such a damage output.

[Blightmare]

A Scout's main disadvantages are the reload time of his scattergun, his low hp, and the fact that he has to dive into close range to get a good meatshot on his opponent.

 

The Shortstop along with the set took away all of these disadvantages. It was essentially a troll machine. You were given more hp, with a secondary weapon that gave hp upon hits. That weapon also could be used on invisible spies.

 

The fish was a reskin of the bat, but it also gave away dead ringer spies. If you hit a spy, and it didn't say "FISH KILL," he was still out there.

 

The Shortstop gave you the power to attack from long ranges. Not to mention it had a reload time akin to the pistol, automatically loading four shots into it, whereas the scattergun would have to reload all 6 shots one at a time.

 

All of this let scouts just run around 20 feet from their enemies just sniping them. If they got hurt, big whoop. Throw some milk on em and keep pestering them from far away. I'm glad they nerfed the shortstop. Now I think it's actually balanced. Scouts should not be able to attack that far away with such a damage output.

 

This. All of this.

[Epsilon]

A Scout's main disadvantages are the reload time of his scattergun, his low hp, and the fact that he has to dive into close range to get a good meatshot on his opponent.

 

The Shortstop along with the set took away all of these disadvantages. It was essentially a troll machine. You were given more hp, with a secondary weapon that gave hp upon hits. That weapon also could be used on invisible spies.

 

The fish was a reskin of the bat, but it also gave away dead ringer spies. If you hit a spy, and it didn't say "FISH KILL," he was still out there.

 

The Shortstop gave you the power to attack from long ranges. Not to mention it had a reload time akin to the pistol, automatically loading four shots into it, whereas the scattergun would have to reload all 6 shots one at a time.

 

All of this let scouts just run around 20 feet from their enemies just sniping them. If they got hurt, big whoop. Throw some milk on em and keep pestering them from far away. I'm glad they nerfed the shortstop. Now I think it's actually balanced. Scouts should not be able to attack that far away with such a damage output.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they kept the reload speed. It's just the damage and accuracy that I'm driven crazy by.

 

The airblast cost is completely irrelevant because these are the kind of pyros that generally ignore airblasts anyway.

 

Umm.. Pyro without airblast is semi-worthless.

[Eedo Baba]

A Scout's main disadvantages are the reload time of his scattergun, his low hp, and the fact that he has to dive into close range to get a good meatshot on his opponent.

 

The Shortstop along with the set took away all of these disadvantages. It was essentially a troll machine. You were given more hp, with a secondary weapon that gave hp upon hits. That weapon also could be used on invisible spies.

 

The fish was a reskin of the bat, but it also gave away dead ringer spies. If you hit a spy, and it didn't say "FISH KILL," he was still out there.

 

The Shortstop gave you the power to attack from long ranges. Not to mention it had a reload time akin to the pistol, automatically loading four shots into it, whereas the scattergun would have to reload all 6 shots one at a time.

 

All of this let scouts just run around 20 feet from their enemies just sniping them. If they got hurt, big whoop. Throw some milk on em and keep pestering them from far away. I'm glad they nerfed the shortstop. Now I think it's actually balanced. Scouts should not be able to attack that far away with such a damage output.

 

You realize the most the shortstop can do at long range is 6-15 damage?

[Blightmare]

You realize the most the shortstop can do at long range is 6-15 damage?

Actually the shortstops scatter is much less than the other ones, which is why I've taken 60-70 damage shots from ranges that would other wise do about 20-40 from the regular scattergun

[Eedo Baba]

You realize the most the shortstop can do at long range is 6-15 damage?

Actually the shortstops scatter is much less than the other ones, which is why I've taken 60-70 damage shots from ranges that would other wise do about 20-40 from the regular scattergun

 

I think you're mistaken. For one thing, the Shortstop does 20% less base damage than the Scattergun, and only maxes out at 70 damage at absolute point blank range. If you think that you got hit by a non critical shot at medium range, and took 60-70 damage, you're probably mistaken due to lag.

 

Here are the damage ratings on the TF2 wiki for the Shortstop.

Point blank 69-72

Medium range 24-48

Long range 6-12

 

For comparison, here's the Scattergun.

 

Point blank 90-105

Medium range 10-40

Long range 3-10

[Blightmare]

well, maybe so then. but that doesn't change the fact that even with the nerf, it still outputs shots significantly faster than the scattergun and reloads all bullets instead of 1 at a time. in the end, after the nerf, the DPS of the weapon is still greater than that of the scattergun.

[Pinkie Pie]

I'm more of a Soda Popper kinda guy anyway.

[Kirkreng]

I've been finding myself pretty much playing with default everything. Not even only on Scout, I've been doing that for all classes.

[Epsilon]

Heh.. I only use the vanilla loadouts for the Scout and Demo.

 

I find them the most effective. I don't like Demoknight because it's too fun-oriented; it's just not as effective as a skilled Demo with Stickies.

[Kirkreng]

I can for the life of me not do remotely good with demoknight. I always use default on Demo, except for the melee weapon, it is just so much more satisfying to hit someone in the face with a frying pan.

[Eedo Baba]

I can for the life of me not do remotely good with demoknight. I always use default on Demo, except for the melee weapon, it is just so much more satisfying to hit someone in the face with a frying pan.

 

I generally go with Loch n Load, Sticky launcher, and a nessie's nine iron. Loch n Load is a very underrated solution for crowd control.

[Kirkreng]

But it takes some skill to use though, if are not good with it, you won't be any help. With the pipe launcher you can at least still spam and hope for a lucky hit

[alphabetagamma]

But it takes some skill to use though, if are not good with it, you won't be any help. With the pipe launcher you can at least still spam and hope for a lucky hit

Loch-n-load is good against actual enemies in more open combat. It's much less effective against sentries and in tight maps. The +25% self damage is brutal some days.

[Eedo Baba]

But it takes some skill to use though, if are not good with it, you won't be any help. With the pipe launcher you can at least still spam and hope for a lucky hit

Loch-n-load is good against actual enemies in more open combat. It's much less effective against sentries and in tight maps. The +25% self damage is brutal some days.

 

It's most effective against sentries really. If you can get 2 quick shots on a sentry, you can take it out easily. Only a level 3 requires more damage than that, and that's what sticky bombs are for.

[The Scoutman]

I dont like the pistol, the scout barely carries ammo for it and getting the attention of the enemy without having the means to finish them is just dumb, and among the alternatives, i like !bonk better, crit-a-cola duration is too short and dangereous, the mad milk is more of a "team-weapon" and if you use !bonk properly you can nerf the afterburn damage to around 15.

[Eedo Baba]

I dont like the pistol, the scout barely carries ammo for it and getting the attention of the enemy without having the means to finish them is just dumb, and among the alternatives, i like !bonk better, crit-a-cola duration is too short and dangereous, the mad milk is more of a "team-weapon" and if you use !bonk properly you can nerf the afterburn damage to around 15.

 

Mad Milk will save you constantly if you're dealing with pesky pyros. Aim at the ground and fire, and you're no longer on fire.

[The Scoutman]

I dont like the pistol, the scout barely carries ammo for it and getting the attention of the enemy without having the means to finish them is just dumb, and among the alternatives, i like !bonk better, crit-a-cola duration is too short and dangereous, the mad milk is more of a "team-weapon" and if you use !bonk properly you can nerf the afterburn damage to around 15.

 

Mad Milk will save you constantly if you're dealing with pesky pyros. Aim at the ground and fire, and you're no longer on fire.

And thats why i use the mad milk if the other team have more than 2 pyros.

But if i can either kill the pyro or get a 1.2 second window of time i can escape certain death situations (like being surrounded in close-quarter maps) and only take around 15 damage

[Karl]

Mad milk may be able to save you from burning damage, but I find the pistol to be extremely useful in killing pyros. If you can get them to chase you with a well placed shotgun blast, and run away firing the pistol at em, I find it usually kills them. If not, the pistol still makes for a good weapon to pester with.