Ross's Game Dungeon: CarnEvil

[scott155]

As a side note: I appreciate your high bar for quality, all of your stuff is really good for the resources you have

I agree. Ross's quality bar is so high, most people probably won't see it until they're lying face up after they trip over the low bars set by some other Let's Players and Machinimers.

 

Side Note: Please tell me if there is a better word than "machinimers" because that sounds stupid, but I want a single word for it and not a two-word solution like "machinima makers" or something. Machinimakers. Machinimasters. Machinimonkeys. Something along those lines but not as stupid.

[Box Tactics]

Machinimaestros.

[HLPrincess]

Machinimaestros.

I love it!

[sullygass95]

This is the last reply I'm giving on the topic on treatment of / equality of women

 

Very well. I suppose it'll be mine as well.

 

There's a scene in a movie that really sticks out for me on this subject. In "Me, Myself and Irene", Renee Zellweger's character kicks Jim Carrey's character in the face with such force that he falls over a fence and down a hill. This is played for comedy. The scene in question is here. Now imagine if the roles were reversed only for gender and Jim Carrey's character kicks Renee Zellweger's character in the face and she falls over the fence and down the hill. Would that be seen as comedic?

 

Yes, it would. Slapstick revolving around women getting hurt is pretty common, and can be just as funny as the male equivalent.

I strongly disagree. Your argument here sounds very cold and unfeeling and just plain hard to believe, though I'm not accusing you of lying. I think it's fair to say that ESPECIALLY in live action a scene like the one that's described I would find much more disturbing than the man getting kicked in the face. What you're saying sounds rational and has that tone of equality to it, but when I imagine a scene like that not only am I horrified, but I feel like anyone even a woman that was sitting next to me in a theater and laughed at that I think is a little messed up. I know violent slapstick against women by men exists but it's much less common than the reverse for a reason. That reason is difficult to describe, but a lot of people seem to agree with that reason otherwise scenes like the one you claimed you would find funny would be as common as the reverse if everyone felt the same about it as you do but most don't.

 

Dude, that's a huge part of sexism, I would say that's the first part of most people think of when sexism is brought up. It's a very loaded word. If I hear someone called sexist, my first thought is of someone acting like he belongs on the cast of Mad Men. This is why I'm making trying to distinguish between the two mentalities. While it may be technically accurate to call me sexist, there's a very large difference between someone who holds a door for a woman v. someone who won't hire a woman or thinks they should only cook and look after children and shouldn't vote.

 

I'm not denying that sexism against women is what most people think of, or that it's been historically more common. I'm saying that it's not the only form of harmful sexism.

 

I feel like nothing you've said here shows that you acknowledge any difference between the two categories that can still fall under "sexist." This colors the whole conversation when you talk as though they're one in the same and makes more rational discourse difficult.

 

I said that statements like "women are more deserving of sympathy than men" and the common attitude that women are morally superior is sexist. I do consider that kind of discrimination just as harmful as "men are smarter than women", as it actively causes harm in our society, as I have observed personally.

 

And yes, you can argue sexism against men, but I feel like men have a large number of advantages already, so when sexism against them does occur, it's nowhere near on the scale that it occurs regularly against women. I treat that similarly as racism against white people, it's hard to take seriously most of the time except under really select scenarios.

 

Actually, sexism against men in the legal system is far more common than most people know. See the linked statistics on sentencing and incarceration rates.

 

The commonly referenced trend of women making less than men is actually in many cases a myth, at least today. They make less mostly because they don't work as many hours.

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303592404577361883019414296

 

The Labor Department defines full-time as 35 hours a week or more, and the "or more" is far more likely to refer to male workers than to female ones. According to the department, almost 55% of workers logging more than 35 hours a week are men. In 2007, 25% of men working full-time jobs had workweeks of 41 or more hours, compared with 14% of female full-time workers. In other words, the famous gender-wage gap is to a considerable degree a gender-hours gap.[...]Women, in fact, make up two-thirds of America's part-time workforce.

 

I never said this, you're putting words in my mouth.

 

So what else is "more deserving of sympathy" supposed to mean? When someone is more deserving of sympathy, that usually implies that they're morally superior to whoever they're being compared to.

Not at all, someone getting more sympathy than another involves a lot of subjective elements and many have nothing to do with moral superiority. In fact, a morally superior character may receive less sympathy because they can be less relatable. In the To Kill a Mockingbird, I found Boo Radley and Scout much more sympathetic than Atticus because while I thought Atticus was cool his rigid morality felt unnatural to me and I knew no real people like him. Just because someone has weaker morals doesn't mean they're less deserving of sympathy than someone with stronger morals you're definitely putting words in his mouth even if it's not intentional.

 

Games and movies that glorify violence almost by definition appeal much more to a male audience in general. To bring women into the violence fantasy and include them as targets of it feels kind of misogynistic to me.

 

So any game that glorifies violence (i.e. almost every game that features shooting as a game mechanic, including the ones I mentioned, Fallout and Mass Effect) feels misogynistic to you? Simply because both females and males can be killed? Or is this not what you were trying to say? You never did specify how a game could feature violence against women in a mature way. I don't see what's immature about the way the Mass Effect games do it, for example.

 

I think in order for violence against women to be okay in a NON-mature way, it has to be in a context that either appeals more to women, or to both sexes about equally.

 

I disagree heavily. A work should not have to be geared towards women to feature them getting killed, simply because in many contexts not featuring violence against women simply wouldn't make any in-universe sense.

 

CarnEvil is not that, it's 100% shooting things in a very violent way, which by definition means it's going to appeal more to a male audience

 

And again, I don't see the problem. It's not misogynistic to show one woman getting killed next to hundreds of males, like CarnEvil and I honestly don't see the logic in the violence double standard. Violence against women simply has not repulsed me any more than violence in the same context against a man.

 

By this logic, should things targeted at females never feature violence against men?

 

Because I feel like videogames are one area where women by and large don't have especially mature treatment as a whole (I'm talking averages, not all games).

 

True.

 

Why are battered women shelters much more common than help for men in abusive relationships?

 

Because of attitudes like this. Male victims of abuse are not anywhere near as uncommon as many believe, and they often face skepticism from the police among as well as social stigma.

 

Who kills more people, men killing women, or women killing men?

 

Men killing women. But you seem to be acting like women killing men never happens, or that men killing women should be a bigger concern than men killing men even though the latter is far more common.

Seeing as he cited statistics where a lesser but existing number of men were killed by women I think this is just flat out wrong. Of course he knows that some men are killed by women, but men killing women happens more and if women can level the playing field with weapons as you've previously claimed than this shouldn't be the case unless there were other factors besides a strength advantage at play.

 

Why are rapes of men by women extremely rare?

 

That is indeed mostly because men are physically stronger.

 

I just can't take a slap in the face as seriously as a body in the morgue

 

Women commit quite a bit of murders and other horrible crimes as well. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with this statement, but I'm not getting good vibes from it.

 

-Women are subjected to domestic violence more often and more severely than are men. A large study, compiled by Martin S. Fiebert, shows that women are as likely to be abusive to men, but that men are less likely to be hurt

 

From what I've read, not much less likely given women are more much likely to use weapons.

 

-According to a report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime

 

And this study says "men and women assault one another and strike the first blow at approximately equal rates".

 

http://dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/#mal

 

Another study states that men consist of 40% of victims of severe physical domestic abuse, which would somewhat contradict the idea that women are assaulted by spouses three times more often

 

http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/men-the-overlooked-victims-of-domestic-violence/

 

-1 in 33 men and 1 in 6 women have experienced an attempted or completed rape against a partner. More than one in three American Indian and Alaska Native women will be raped in their lifetimes.

 

Again, I'd like to note most male rapes tend to go unreported. But okay, rape of females is far more common. The reasons for that should be obvious.

 

-Women are more likely than men to be murdered by an intimate partner. Of those killed by an intimate partner, about three quarters are female and about a quarter are male. In 1999 in the United States, 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner,[38] and 1,181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005.

 

Yet men are much more likely to be killed in general. Which was my point relating to video games specifically; man on man violence is seen as fine, man on woman violence is seen as bad regardless of context. Please note that even though they're less common than men, that 25% still exists.

 

For someone trying to champion non-bias, this blanket statement sounds colored AGAINST women.

 

Err, no. I was talking about the few that I have personally seen. I didn't say anything about all women committing crimes and trying to get away with it, or say that men never commit a crime thinking they won't get caught.

 

I think both men and women try to get away with things they shouldn't do equally.

 

This is true. But women usually have more success when it comes to doing this in crime, as the incarceration rates would indicate.

 

Like Vapymid was implying, I don't see 100% equal treatment to a group that's at a disadvantage versus one that's not as being equality.

 

I don't see what any of the factors you listed have to do with bias in their favor in the legal system, for example. Violence in the media, maybe a couple of your points (and even some of those are in question), but if your concern is that violence against them in video games has some kind of negative effect in the real world, the same should apply to men, as they're more often victims both in real life and in the media.

I won't comment on the sexism in the legal system as it's not something I've looked into that much and you do make a strong argument that women are treated more leniently which I agree is bad. However, that doesn't change the fact that women are discriminated against in the workplace more often than men are, they don't hold as many high up positions in business and government, for instance there are many more male congressmen than female, and women are much more restricted from military involvement than men. These problems are much less severe than they were decades ago but they still exist. I see a bit of positive sexism towards women as to help offset the many forms of negative sexism they suffer from in our society sorta like socioeconomic affirmative action I guess, though I have a feeling base on what you've been saying so far that you oppose that too (though I could be wrong just the vibe I'm getting from your insistence about rigid equality).

[scott155]

Machinimaestros.

Brilliant!

[GordonFreeman]

Ross, the cool thing here is this game isnt obscure yet. I searched youtube for it and I have found 3 LPS other than yours of carnevil.

Also since warner brothers bought out Midway and turned it into Netherrealm Studio's, does that mean Warner Bros. owns CarnEvil?

[113]

My dad has this cabinet in the living room. XD We actually have several arcade cabinets & two pinball games.

...and now I'm just going to go back to lurking..

[Attapi0]

Look what I found at the hotel I just stayed at

[Vapymid]

I don't know why it took me so long to remember about this one - Karn Evil 9

 

fLS0Med0s6E

 

"Soon the Gypsy Queen in a glaze of Vaseline

Will perform on guillotine

What a scene! What a scene!"

 

Or look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?start=174&v=UeQsZOQqO6I in the live version - are there percussion Olympics?

 

Regards

[Vozka]

Hi Ross!

I noticed that you said you're living in Poland. Poland is kinda huge, so this may be irrelevant, but just in case you're not too far from the borders with Czech Republic, there's an arcade museum about 20 km from Prague, where you can play not only CarnEvil, but more than 100 other games, mainly older. From Sprint 2 (fucking crazy cabinet) and Asteroids to Time Crisis, Metal Slug and DDR. You only pay about 5,50€ to enter (for the whole day), the games are all free. It's fucking awesome.

 

Proof: pic of friends playing CarnEvil

[Vapymid]

Hey, never mind the game - look at the ad just below the screen. U Fleku - the home of the best beer in the world! That alone requires a visit to Prague!

 

Regards

[Otto]

Sounds like a bloody good deal. Next holiday trip, you get to plan a visit down nostalgia road.

[cymon]

So does Ross ever see these posts or respond to them? If I offer to model and 3D print the carnevil coin, I wan to be sure my effort isn't going to be wasted. E-mail me if you want it, Ross.

[Luis]

So does Ross ever see these posts or respond to them? If I offer to model and 3D print the carnevil coin, I wan to be sure my effort isn't going to be wasted. E-mail me if you want it, Ross.

He'll read it, but it may take some time. Or you can just PM him or email him, or PM HLprincess eho is far more active than Ross, she'll deliver the message.

[Jarrath]

Hey Ross. I freaking found one. I found a carnevil game at a TA truckstop in paulsboro NJ exit 18 off I295. Dropped 5 bucks on it. It was exactly as u put it. Awesome. Heres some pics. Note the lightguns were of the shotgun variety but still reloaded by shooting of screen. Also 50cents per play. Couldnt up load the pics. Heres a link to the pics instead.

http://imgur.com/a/HvdbP

[ScottD.Betson]

Jarrath you got my respect any day

[Ross Scott]

So does Ross ever see these posts or respond to them? If I offer to model and 3D print the carnevil coin, I wan to be sure my effort isn't going to be wasted. E-mail me if you want it, Ross.

He'll read it, but it may take some time. Or you can just PM him or email him, or PM HLprincess eho is far more active than Ross, she'll deliver the message.

For the record, I MAY miss posts in here, I can get overwhelmed. Email is the best way to make sure I'll see what you have to say (though the responses can be very slow sometimes).

[Lion O Cyborg-Dark Redshif]

What is the best emulator to use for this game? I get most of my emulation good from Emuparadise and I thought maybe they might have one, but I don't know which is the best. I'd like to know because I really want to play this game, and the arcade in town doesn't have it. Not that I an able to go to the arcade and theme park much these days.

[ScottD.Betson]

 

 

 

I know Ross doesnt want to see more of the cabinet, but I found it at my local fair, played it and made it not very far, but it was awesome. TY Ross for showing us this game, ive played it, its awesome

[Diem]

I was watching Did You Know Gaming, when something unexpected showed up at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?start=180&v=Ho51NVijrYE