Is USA finally killing itself?

[rliant1864]

We were all waiting for Qwerty to translate that Italian page.

[Wwen]

It's been this way for a while, but we're just now seeing the symptoms. No empire lasts forever. The whole of the West has lost faith in itself. In the very long-run, I'm optimistic. In the short-term... I think civil war is not likely, we're too comfortable, but having a party assume more power is. The stones for the road have been laid, all we have to walk down it. A financial collapse is likely to be the trigger. The cause of the 2008 collapse still exists.

 

We should have revolted with too big to fail and too big to jail, but I guess the MCU keeps us mollified...

[DreamHollow4219]

Yes and no.

 

I think as a country, the United States might be on borrowed time. I've met people from across the political spectrum who seem to be in relative agreement about that prospect. As for what the U.S. will become in the future; we really don't know. I've heard the word "balkanization" thrown around a lot and it's a concerning possibility. Some states and their governors have openly talked about succession. That's regardless of it being a "Red" or "Blue" state by the way. I know that around the time of 2019-2020 I started to read articles about states threatening to break away via their governors.

 

It seems like some of the States in the United States are trying to break off into their own identity, which feeds into this Balkanization theory. The idea that these places are trying to force their own autonomy because they are starting to feel as if it's time to break away from the Union. It's worth thinking about the fact that a big part of what keeps the country united is the idea that we are all "Americans." Once that idea starts to become heavily eroded, all that's left is "state pride" and an association with that.

 

What I don't think any of these potentially separatist states are considering is what kind of effort actually goes into becoming a separate territory.

 

They would need:

• A currency unique to their territory.
• Separate state laws that fill in gaps that Federal laws once covered.
• Established borders (which may lead to some immediate headaches regarding territory).
• Most likely a new territory name.

And most likely some things I haven't even considered. These are just some of the basics.

 

So really what we should be on the lookout for are the signs of actual state separation from the Union of the United States. Once states start actively breaking away, that's when the real tension is going to hit. It will force D.C. to render a decision about how to proceed, depending on how seriously the State is taking it's own autonomy. If it's a vested effort with actual measures to separate from Federal influence, it would definitely count as a civil conflict.

 

Edit: By the way, I'm not just talking about Civil War personalities either. Both California and Texas are confirmed to have at least announced a possible secession in the recent past.

Edited April 4, 2021 by DreamHollow4219 (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

On 4/4/2021 at 8:24 AM, DreamHollow4219 said:

Both California and Texas are confirmed to have at least announced a possible secession in the recent past.

They're also the only two states that could actually survive outside of the Union. California can't legally secede, but Texas can.

[rairii]

On 4/5/2021 at 5:27 PM, BTGBullseye said:

They're also the only two states that could actually survive outside of the Union. California can't legally secede, but Texas can.

No state can legally secede, not even Texas. That's a common misconception.

Legality isn't the issue in state secession though. The greater challenge is logistics. It's not like the governor of Florida can just, one afternoon, decide to draft up a new constitution, establish a new currency, and declare Florida independent from the U.S.

[kerdios]

4 hours ago, Annie said:

.. It's not like the governor of Florida can just, one afternoon, decide to draft up a new constitution, establish a new currency, and declare Florida independent from the U.S.

Why not?
Also, why would he need to establish a new currency?

Edited April 7, 2021 by kerdios (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:38 AM, kerdios said:

Why not?
Also, why would he need to establish a new currency?

 

He wouldn't need a new currency, but traditionally independent countries use their own currency, and USD would trade differently in the new country.

[rairii]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:38 AM, kerdios said:

Why not?
Also, why would he need to establish a new currency?

I'd have figured this obvious because of the wording, but logistics.

There isn't one single person in ANY state who has the power to simply declare it independent from the U.S. and actually make it work. There needs to be collaborative involvement from lots of other political figures AND constituents alike, not to mention (in this case) Florida-based businesses and corporations including ones responsible for utilities and infrastructure would need to contend with a new currency.

 

As for why a new currency would be necessary, having a currency tied to the treasury of the country you're trying to declare independence from actually makes it quite difficult to actually establish yourself as independent. Actually, by definition, that makes you not independent.

[Eshanas]

The fact that this thread is from 2013, and has probably been discussed seriously since the 90s, and will probably be discussed until the mid-century, speaks volumes.

 

The US has problems. But most people who can influence those problems are working for their side to fix/win those problems by the established means, not abandon ship or wreck it all.

[FullBusinessSuit]

 

On 7/26/2013 at 9:11 AM, Meelis13 said:

current situation in USA starts to resemble more and more of USSR by the day

 

Wow, this was posted all the way back in 2013? That's pretty dang insightful. I think most would agree that USA has gotten further down the path of communism than any country in world history.

[Deep Dive Devin]

For anyone else reading: what do you think this guy believes "communism" means?

[kerdios]

2 hours ago, Shaddy said:

For anyone else reading: what do you think this guy believes "communism" means?

A Borg cube?

[BTGBullseye]

On 6/4/2021 at 6:51 AM, kerdios said:

A Borg cube?

That would be China... We're more like the Cardassians, but we need an Obsidian Order.

[kerdios]

11 minutes ago, BTGBullseye said:

That would be China... We're more like the Cardassians, but we need an Obsidian Order.

Nooo, I was guessing that the way mr. business sees communism is as the society in a Borg cube.

[BTGBullseye]

Just now, kerdios said:

Nooo, I was guessing that the way mr. business sees communism is as the society in a Borg cube.

Ah, possibly. Or maybe he's thinking it's the Tal Shiar...