Is USA finally killing itself?

[Meelis13]

before i say anything else, i'd like to point out, that i do have no desire for any country to lose its independence.

 

 

but to the topic.

Lately USA has been acting bizarre to say the least. The "hero" mentality, that isnt exactly new to USA, is getting more bizarre to watch daily. Its like it would be cold war all over again (well, at least what i've been able to piece together), at least from USA goverment viewpoint.

I mean, USA seems to be turning more aggressive- first Afghanistan, then Iraq now its either Iran or North Korea... or maybe both. Also not too long ago it became widely known, that NSA has been spying on internet users for all over the world. Now, apparently, some sources also claim that they have DEMANDED passwords for major social media networks like youtube, facebook and google+, plus the encryption algorythms. According to sources so far, media networks have refused the offer firmly..

 

while yes, much of it isnt new, USA still seems much more shakier than ever. And to be fair- not only USA- Russia and China (yes, even China) as well.

 

but thats besides the point right now.

so, spying. Truth be told, current situation in USA starts to resemble more and more of USSR by the day, at least to me as bystander far away. I mean seriously- KGB was that paranoid, maybe nazis Gestapo as well.

Im rather certain that nothing good can come of this, if USA keeps on playing god and also spying on everyone (no, thats not the threat, NSA jackasses. im stating my opinion). spying like this might keep crowd under control for a while, but as history has shown, it will end in mess and for head of spies- bloody mess. Though to be fair- the fact that USA has spied on other countries is public secret for years, its still bad move from them.

 

opinions?

[BTGBullseye]

The USA isn't all that way, as a matter of fact we're on the verge of a civil war over all this crap.

[Meelis13]

The USA isn't all that way, as a matter of fact we're on the verge of a civil war over all this crap.

thats part of what i meant with whole this. USA might very well stop existing as we know it due to civil war, some major invasion or even both at same time

[ThePest179]

You are massively pessimistic my friend. If the US was as aggressive and totalitarian as you say it was, we'd be a surveillance police state, and force Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and North Korea into occupied territories, while cracking down on dissent internally and in occupied countries. And BTGBullseye wasn't being serious about the civil war stuff. And lastly, no country wants to invade the US at this time.

[BTGBullseye]

Actually, I was being serious about the civil war part. Texas is ready to break away if another asshole gets in after we're finally rid of the current president, and there are plenty of other states that are ready to join them. Once that happens, there will be at least some civil war, and for most other countries that would be the time to invade. (not concerning the US though, as we would be even more dangerous, not less)

[ThePest179]

Actually, I was being serious about the civil war part. Texas is ready to break away if another asshole gets in after we're finally rid of the current president, and there are plenty of other states that are ready to join them. Once that happens, there will be at least some civil war, and for most other countries that would be the time to invade. (not concerning the US though, as we would be even more dangerous, not less)

 

I think there was a video game like that. "Shattered Union" I think it was called. I do not think it will have to come to that though.

[BTGBullseye]

Most people don't... That's the problem. Very few people know how close we are to a major internal conflict, and most who see the signs refuse to acknowledge them.

[ThePest179]

Then please tell us how long we have, so we can prepare.

[BTGBullseye]

It all depends on what goes on with the violations of the US constitution that are being forced upon the population... Several courts have already ruled Obamacare to be unconstitutional, and the government doesn't seem to care. Combine that with the repeated violations of the 4th amendment, and targeting of opposing political parties by the IRS, and you know what the root of people's discontent with the government is...

 

If it keeps on, we'll get a lot of people that are going to start separating from the current government, and forming their own, like Texas. Timing is not known, since there may or may not be anything further added to these violations, and they may even reverse some of the problems. (not likely, but we can always hope)

[danielsangeo]

"Several courts have already ruled Obamacare to be unconstitutional,"

 

The United States Supreme Court ruled it constitutional.

 

"Combine that with the repeated violations of the 4th amendment,"

 

Such as?

 

"and targeting of opposing political parties by the IRS,"

 

...which didn't happen...

 

"and you know what the root of people's discontent with the government is..."

 

Yes. They're discontent with things that are allowed to it by the Constitution....or things that aren't happening. People are ready to secede (individuals are more than welcome to 'secede' any day of the week but don't force it on others in the state) over the imaginary or the constitutional.

[Doom Shepherd]

 

"and targeting of opposing political parties by the IRS,"

 

...which didn't happen...

 

l.

 

You calling Holy 'Bama a liar? You Teapartier!

 

(Also the US Treasury and every remotely credible media outlet.)

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/irs-officials-misled-congress-public/

 

Not that I'm saying that BTG's analysis isn't kooky, because it is, but the facts don't bear out your statements, either.

[BTGBullseye]

Some of you should start reading the news instead of watching the Democrat-controlled-media version of it... I highly recommend EFF.org.

[ThePest179]

Some of you should start reading the news instead of watching the Democrat-controlled-media version of it... I highly recommend EFF.org.

 

There is no reliable media source, due to them blowing everything out of proportion. AND you didn't even try to explain to us what you meant in your argument when @danielsangeo pointed out the flaws (not entirely sure if I worded that correctly).

[BTGBullseye]

AND you didn't even try to explain to us what you meant in your argument when @danielsangeo pointed out the flaws (not entirely sure if I worded that correctly).

Well, he only went by the US supreme court, not the several STATE supreme courts that I was specifying. Even so, the US supreme court was a 5-4 ruling, meaning it was a split vote... The other ones, you can just look at the Snowden revelations for the 4th amendment violations, and the targeting of non-democratic organizations by the IRS is well documented. (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2013/08/05/npr-posts-house-chart-laying-out-irs-harassment-tea-party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internal_Revenue_Service_political_profiling_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_IRS_scandal http://bigstory.ap.org/article/irs-apologizes-targeting-conservative-groups)

 

I refuse to respond to people who don't bother looking at any form of news at all, who then call me a liar.

[danielsangeo]

 

"and targeting of opposing political parties by the IRS,"

 

...which didn't happen...

 

l.

 

You calling Holy 'Bama a liar? You Teapartier!

 

Y'know, the only people these days using messianic rhetoric are the right-wing. Them and Dr. Breen. And, yes, if Obama said that the IRS was "targeting" right-wing groups, he was wrong. Even as an Obama supporter, I'm allowed to say that.

 

(Also the US Treasury and every remotely credible media outlet.)

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/05/irs-officials-misled-congress-public/

 

Your citation doesn't show that the IRS specifically "targeted conservative groups", just groups that appeared to have political motivations. The IRS investigated both conservative- and liberal-leaning groups. But remember that only one group was even denied tax-exempt status under this "targeting" (which is a loaded term): A left-wing group.

 

What the IRS did was specifically investigate some groups that it thought would use its tax exempt status to essentially break the rules under which that tax exempt status is given and used names to do so as a shortcut. This was wrong but no Tea Party group was denied tax exempt status and all of them (except for the aforementioned left-wing group) continued to operate under tax exempt status. Also, the "increased questioning" was actually the normal amount of questioning that should've been done for all groups.

 

By trying to make sure that these groups are following the law is not exactly "targeting", and the majority of groups that were "targeted" were not conservative groups at all. They were just trying to make sure that the groups that applied for tax exempt status (you don't have to apply to get tax-exempt status under these rules; you can just say you're a tax-exempt group and you get all the benefits therein) did not break any rules. If any groups where "targeted", it was groups that appeared, by name, to have political motivations. These groups just happened to be conservative groups.

 

Don't read the news, BTG. Read the facts.

[ThePest179]

Even as an Obama supporter...

Big Brother still watches you, no matter how much you support or criticize him.

[Doom Shepherd]

Y'know, the only people these days using messianic rhetoric are the right-wing.

 

And anybody else who still likes to make fun of the left's considerable use of it during his early days.

 

Your citation doesn't show that the IRS specifically "targeted conservative groups", just groups that appeared to have political motivations. The IRS investigated both conservative- and liberal-leaning groups. But remember that only one group was even denied tax-exempt status under this "targeting" (which is a loaded term): A left-wing group.

 

We rate this statement Mostly False:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/06/jim-mcdermott/irs-targeted-liberal-groups-bush-years-jim-mcdermo/

 

This was wrong but no Tea Party group was denied tax exempt status and all of them (except for the aforementioned left-wing group) continued to operate under tax exempt status.

 

"I fired at random into the crowd but it's okay because I didn't hit anyone."

[BTGBullseye]

These are the times that I really like Doom...

[Doom Shepherd]

I'm sure it will turn out that the IRS did what they did because a Conservative posted a video on YouTube that was insulting to their faith.

[BTGBullseye]

I'm sure it will.