Vent

[Seattleite]

If you don't want people to call you stupid, quit proving them right.

So you think it's a stupid idea to use a tool to do work easier, or that there are other ways of thinking/doing?

 

I think it's stupid to WELD THE PLIERS IN FUCKING PLACE, because I need to MOVE THEM FREQUENTLY to put MORE FUCKING WIRE IN, you DAFT GIT.

[BTGBullseye]

Who ever said to weld the pliers to the damn wire? Use pliers to form the wire into the rings, they won't stick unless you're using completely molten metal, and actively heating the pliers to match. (I have lots of experience with welding, and hot/molten metal + pliers)

[Seattleite]

YOU did. If I may quote:

 

Try using needle-nose pliers next time... And solder them shut with lead-free solder. (or TiG weld them shut)

 

And as for your new idea, I'll let my friend Hank explain my opinion to you.

 

WlWmCXihec4

 

The method I am using requires less money, less equipment, forms rounder, more even rings, doesn't compromise the metal by heating it (this is armour, after all, and your method would make the metal brittle) and is considerably easier to do in my environment (I'm doing this at my computer desk, while watching early Dragon Ball, I can't use that kind of equipment here). I am wrapping them around a dowel rod, and bending them by putting my thumb against the wire and rotating the rod by the locking pliers. My thumb both forces the wire to bend and guides it so that it doesn't end up running over itself or being misshapen. This method is cheap, fast, efficient and effective, the only downsides are it takes a considerable amount of force to bend steel, and all that force is being put into a very small space on my thumb. Making the wire hot would not make my issue, which is the pain and numbness caused by all that pressure on my thumb for so long, any better. In fact, if would be much worse. And don't suggest gloves. I NEED the precision granted by my bare hands to shape the coils right, leather gloves would slip and move, making it harder to manipulate the wire. This is a stupid idea.

 

And I'm getting pretty damned good at this. I've made about 3,000 links, still have a pair of hundred-plus-link coils to cut, and now I'm out of wire.

[VeryShyPerson]

I have not any chocolate

[BTGBullseye]

YOU did. If I may quote:

 

Try using needle-nose pliers next time... And solder them shut with lead-free solder. (or TiG weld them shut)

I can see how you might misinterpret that post, but only if you have never spoken to someone in real life, and had not taken the post in-context. (context is everything when determining meaning in a conversation or story) Quit trying to violate the "don't be a dick" rule using intentional misinterpretation.

 

The method I am using requires less money, less equipment, forms rounder, more even rings, doesn't compromise the metal by heating it (this is armour, after all, and your method would make the metal brittle) and is considerably easier to do in my environment (I'm doing this at my computer desk, while watching early Dragon Ball, I can't use that kind of equipment here). I am wrapping them around a dowel rod, and bending them by putting my thumb against the wire and rotating the rod by the locking pliers. My thumb both forces the wire to bend and guides it so that it doesn't end up running over itself or being misshapen. This method is cheap, fast, efficient and effective, the only downsides are it takes a considerable amount of force to bend steel, and all that force is being put into a very small space on my thumb. Making the wire hot would not make my issue, which is the pain and numbness caused by all that pressure on my thumb for so long, any better. In fact, if would be much worse. And don't suggest gloves. I NEED the precision granted by my bare hands to shape the coils right, leather gloves would slip and move, making it harder to manipulate the wire. This is a stupid idea.

The pliers would allow a better grip on the metal, and wouldn't require you to apply your thumb at all.

 

As for the "making it brittle" and "compromising it by heating it" part, it would have to be heated to near melting point and then rapidly cooled for it to become brittle instead of just hardened. (even hardened steel will bend like crazy, but it's a lot harder to bend) Unless you plan on welding and then dunking in water while it's still bright red, you can't use that as an excuse. (soldering won't even come close to the temperatures needed to do that)

 

I would never have suggested gloves for that kind of work, only tools.

 

Finally, why are you getting so pissed at suggestions that are made by a welder, and an armorer? (a friend of mine that does blacksmithing, and has tested various types and manufacturing methods of chainmail/scalemail against everything from bullets to knives and arrows)

 

And I'm getting pretty damned good at this. I've made about 3,000 links, still have a pair of hundred-plus-link coils to cut, and now I'm out of wire.

Grats. What gauge of wire are you using, and what ductility? Also, are you coating the finished rings with anything to prevent rust?

[VeryShyPerson]

I wish all the shouty in the other apartment would stop I dont even know if Im here anymore maybe Im gone and the cookies they all burned

[Seattleite]

YOU did. If I may quote:

 

Try using needle-nose pliers next time... And solder them shut with lead-free solder. (or TiG weld them shut)

I can see how you might misinterpret that post, but only if you have never spoken to someone in real life, and had not taken the post in-context. (context is everything when determining meaning in a conversation or story) Quit trying to violate the "don't be a dick" rule using intentional misinterpretation.

 

And you're violating the "don't be a dick" rule by lying straight to my face.

 

The pliers would allow a better grip on the metal, and wouldn't require you to apply your thumb at all.

 

And would also make it impossible to guide the wire properly at the speed I'm presently doing it, since sliding the pliers down the metal is slow and difficult to do while maintaining a grip. Not to mention it'll scratch and mark the wire so it won't lay flat on the dowel and will end up misshapen.

 

As for the "making it brittle" and "compromising it by heating it" part, it would have to be heated to near melting point and then rapidly cooled for it to become brittle instead of just hardened. (even hardened steel will bend like crazy, but it's a lot harder to bend) Unless you plan on welding and then dunking in water while it's still bright red, you can't use that as an excuse. (soldering won't even come close to the temperatures needed to do that)

 

Wrong. And heating hot enough to cause a reduction in strength, in order to make it easier to bend, WILL make it weaker and less ductile when it cools. Sure, it gets harder as well, but hardness isn't as important as strength and ductility combined. And you're back to the idiotic solder idea again.

 

I would never have suggested gloves for that kind of work, only tools.

 

Well good, you're choosing not to make one dumb suggestion so you can make an even dumber one.

 

Finally, why are you getting so pissed at suggestions that are made by a welder, and an armorer? (a friend of mine that does blacksmithing, and has tested various types and manufacturing methods of chainmail/scalemail against everything from bullets to knives and arrows)

 

Because I'm actually just getting mildly miffed at an internet moron who claims to have experience his idiotic suggestions prove he does not have.

 

Grats. What gauge of wire are you using, and what ductility? Also, are you coating the finished rings with anything to prevent rust?

 

14-gauge galvanised steel. And galvanised steel doesn't rust, at least not anywhere it isn't scratched or cut.

[BTGBullseye]

And you're violating the "don't be a dick" rule by lying straight to my face.

What am I "lying" about exactly? Your intentional misinterpretation of an obvious statement, or your unfounded assupmtion that I don't know as much about metallurgy and metal work as I do?

 

And would also make it impossible to guide the wire properly at the speed I'm presently doing it, since sliding the pliers down the metal is slow and difficult to do while maintaining a grip. Not to mention it'll scratch and mark the wire so it won't lay flat on the dowel and will end up misshapen.

There are pliers specifically designed for the work you're doing, and they won't scratch or mar the wire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-nose_pliers

That's just one among many.

 

Wrong. And heating hot enough to cause a reduction in strength, in order to make it easier to bend, WILL make it weaker and less ductile when it cools. Sure, it gets harder as well, but hardness isn't as important as strength and ductility combined. And you're back to the idiotic solder idea again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel

Second sentence of the second paragraph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_%28metallurgy%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_%28metallurgy%29

 

There are a lot more, I could even start scanning in my metallurgy books if you need more proof. (if I can find where my parents hid them)

 

Well good, you're choosing not to make one dumb suggestion so you can make an even dumber one.

Why would I follow your example?

 

Because I'm actually just getting mildly miffed at an internet moron who claims to have experience his idiotic suggestions prove he does not have.

You're assuming things that are untrue as fact... Unless you have proof that the vast majority of metallurgical science is in fact false, please refrain from claiming to be smarter than several people who have decades of experience professionally working the same metal as you admittedly just started messing with as a hobby.

 

14-gauge galvanised steel. And galvanised steel doesn't rust, at least not anywhere it isn't scratched or cut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization#Eventual_corrosion

It still rusts, and since it's being designed as an "armor" is likely to encounter sweat on a frequent basis while wearing. (thereby accelerating the process) It is a good start however.

 

There are clear enamel spray paints that would work well for a long-term solution, though you might want to try conditioning the metal instead. Conditioning involves applying a liberal coat of veggie oil to the metal, and putting it in an oven at 350 degrees for an hour or so, then wiping the excess oil off with a cloth. (same thing as seasoning, usually applied to cast iron cookware, but is useful for a number of different metals)

[VeryShyPerson]

This is getting ridiculous.

[BTGBullseye]

Yes it is.

[Seattleite]

What am I "lying" about exactly? Your intentional misinterpretation of an obvious statement, or your unfounded assupmtion that I don't know as much about metallurgy and metal work as I do?

 

No, your pathetic attempt to pretend you hadn't said what you just did. You said, VERY PLAINLY, to solder or tig weld the pliers shut. You said that in no uncertain terms, then you lied straight to my face trying to claim you didn't.

 

There are pliers specifically designed for the work you're doing, and they won't scratch or mar the wire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-nose_pliers

That's just one among many.

 

Except, of course, even if you can manage avoiding scratching the wire, the very fact that they grip the wire means stopping to readjust frequently. Whereas I can just keep winding at full speed with my current method without having to readjust constantly. I can wrap all the way down the dowel rod in a matter of minutes, but if I used your method I'd have to stop every couple seconds to move the pliers. Or did you forget the wire is moving?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel

Second sentence of the second paragraph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_%28metallurgy%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_%28metallurgy%29

 

There are a lot more, I could even start scanning in my metallurgy books if you need more proof. (if I can find where my parents hid them)

 

Sounds like somebody doesn't know how hardening works. Or argumentation, because you think that relative terms like "very high temperature" can be used as support. (You can also say it takes a "very high temperature" to soften the metal in the first place.) Hardening a material always makes it less flexible, which is what brittleness IS in case you didn't know. That's the reason we don't harden most metal and when we do harden metal we don't harden it as much as we can. This metal is already quite hard, making it any harder would be purely detrimental.

 

Not to mention annealing works by slowly and evenly heating and then slowly and evenly cooling the metal so as to not stress it, and of course all this without stressing it before it cools as stressing it, especially while it's hot, will harden it instead of softening it. Wrapping the wire means bending it, that will harden it. Hardening it is a bad thing here, the metal is hard enough already.

 

And that's ignoring how fast a wire this size cools, which means I'd have a hard, inflexible wire by the time I got to cutting it, which makes cutting even harder, and it'd be even harder afterwards to bend the links closed once I'm actually making them into armour without breaking them. Which is hard enough, thanks.

 

Why would I follow your example?

 

You just failed the Turing test.

 

You're assuming things that are untrue as fact... Unless you have proof that the vast majority of metallurgical science is in fact false, please refrain from claiming to be smarter than several people who have decades of experience professionally working the same metal as you admittedly just started messing with as a hobby.

 

Except I'm NOT dealing with anybody who knows what they're talking about, or who has any proffessional experience, I'm dealing with a complete and utter fucking moron, who has repeatedly proved himself a complete and other fucking moron with every word he has ever said, who is so dumb he can't figure out that blatantly lying about something he just said when there's a text record of it is a bad idea, who thinks that breaking out welding equipment is a good idea in a casual hobby even though it's presently being done (as I've said now) in front of a wooden desk, doesn't understand how metal hardening works and thinks claiming to know a guy who does this as a hobby qualifies him as some sort of expert on the subject.

 

You are the single dumbest person I have ever met in my life who didn't have some form of brain damage to give them an excuse, although if you did have brain damage that would not surprise me at this point, and I have no sympathy for stupid people, especially not those as stupid as you. If there's anything I am certain of, it's that not only am I smarter than you, but so is everybody else reading this.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization#Eventual_corrosion

It still rusts, and since it's being designed as an "armor" is likely to encounter sweat on a frequent basis while wearing. (thereby accelerating the process) It is a good start however.

 

The zinc coating is enough. I'm already spending money on the metal, and I'm not spending more money to make the chainmail I'm making as a hobby more resistant to corrosion when I live in an area cold enough (corrosion happens slower at a lower temperature, and I'm not exactly sweating where I live either) to make it a waste of time.

 

There are clear enamel spray paints that would work well for a long-term solution, though you might want to try conditioning the metal instead. Conditioning involves applying a liberal coat of veggie oil to the metal, and putting it in an oven at 350 degrees for an hour or so, then wiping the excess oil off with a cloth. (same thing as seasoning, usually applied to cast iron cookware, but is useful for a number of different metals)

 

Pretty sure the painted metal rings will start off stuck together, making them stiff. That'll change, sure, but it'll change by breaking off the paint sticking them together, the same you're trying to protect the already protected metal with, and leaving spots uncovered. The spray paint, or vegetable oil residue for your other idea, will also corrode much faster than the zinc coating the steel so this would have to be repeated frequently, especially for the vegetable oil. Regularly heating the metal up and cooling it down would be bad for the metal, but spraying it with enamel paint and leaving it stuck together is an even less attractive idea given that I intend to actually wear the chainmail and it being stiff due to stuck links on a regular basis would make that extremely uncomfortable. And also, it takes years for zinc coatings to corrode. I'm not concerned with its condition in a couple years and if anything replacing it means getting to continue this hobby.

[rairii]

First day of school's in just a few hours and I can't get any sleep. I've gotten only 2 hours so far and it's to difficult to get any more. Looks like I'm gonna have to drown myself in coffee.

 

By the way, wikipedia's not exactly amazing for use as a source. It's great if you know how to use it, but that kinda involves checking the work cited which, by the way, the 2nd paragraph had none of in that one example. But hey, just a nitpick, by all means keep picking the specific parts that coulda just been BSed.

[HoboJim]

I smashed my pinky toe this morning against the wall in my bathrom, I then proceded to cut the same toe with a small piece of sheet metal outside the living room, after putting a bandaid on to stop messing up my wood floor i smashed it into the fridge... This was quickly followed by me smashing a hole in the cupboard out of rage.

 

Today is not going to be a good day...

[VeryShyPerson]

Vent: Mood swings

[Seattleite]

I am WAY too busy and WAY too tired to be coming here to vent about it. But here I am anyway. What the hell is wrong with me?

[BTGBullseye]

You're too obsessed with trying to find illogical ways for "proving" that I'm not smarter than you, including taking statements out of context, and not bothering to read the source material that you claim is false simply because it doesn't make you look smart.

[VeryShyPerson]

Thats bloody enough already.

[Seattleite]

You're too obsessed with trying to find illogical ways for "proving" that I'm not smarter than you, including taking statements out of context, and not bothering to read the source material that you claim is false simply because it doesn't make you look smart.

 

Do you EVER say anything that's not projection?

[VeryShyPerson]

Enough.

[Seattleite]

I'll stop if he does, but if he doesn't I'mma keep going until I make him cry. I'm not going to pretend to be a good sport about it, either.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Guest (see edit history)