Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[BTGBullseye]

Their SAMs seem to work quite well swatting the crude ballistic fireworks out of the sky as it is.

And it costs them $20k-$50k per missile (Iron Dome) to shoot down a rocket that cost $800-$1000 (Qassam and Grad rockets) You do the financial math about just sitting back and shooting them down. (bear in mind they usually have to fire two missiles to intercept each rocket)

 

Both.

How did they determine and confirm the latter? How did you confirm the story's voracity? And what do the writers consider "militants"? (this could be radically different from the definition given by the majority of the world)

[ThePest179]

Both.

How did they determine and confirm the latter? How did you confirm the story's voracity? And what do the writers consider "militants"? (this could be radically different from the definition given by the majority of the world)

 

Ah, couldn't find them. I think the definition of militants would be "armed people". Not sure about the other questions.

[BTGBullseye]

Militants includes not only those that are armed, but those that actively support those that are armed.

[ThePest179]

Militants includes not only those that are armed, but those that actively support those that are armed.

 

That designation is killing civilians. A lot of people in Gaza support Hamas or some extremist group or another to the point where, by that definition, everyone and everything becomes a target for Israeli bombs.

[sotix]

As an (semi) involved person in this problem and at the risk of flaming this thread much more I would like to thank BTGBullseye and Doom Shepherd for their involvement in this thread (even if not pro israel), and keeping this from completely derailing to an Anti-isreal thread like many seem to be.

I can legitimately say they are the only 2 who have the slightest idea of what they're talking about among this ridiculously misinformed thread, but I wont get too ahead of myself as I know very little (but still more than some of the people here) about this issue myself.

I will however point out how flawed your attempts are to "help" the people of gaza by massive protest without any knowledge of the subject, If this problem wasn't so largely covered by media and talked about it would be over in any number of occasions. but people fell right to hamas's trap and blow it up way more than it needed to be and thus unintentionally giving hamas power and a reason to keep fighting and causing more deaths which leads to more uproar and continuing this cycle again and again. If people really want to stop this war all they need to do is to condemn the missiles that were and are being shot to israel. (sorry for any spelling or grammar errors, i'm not a native english speaker)

[BTGBullseye]

Welcome to the forum Sotix, and you are not far off on your English. (mostly unimportant grammar errors)

[Vapymid]

If this problem wasn't so largely covered by media and talked about it would be over in any number of occasions. but people fell right to hamas's trap and blow it up way more than it needed to be and thus unintentionally giving hamas power and a reason to keep fighting and causing more deaths which leads to more uproar and continuing this cycle again and again. If people really want to stop this war all they need to do is to condemn the missiles that were and are being shot to israel.

 

OK, let's imagine that the media world-wide did ignore the situation from the beginning. How would the current conflict have played out and where would have been the endpoint for the Israeli operation? Please, can you elaborate?

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

If people really want to stop this war all they need to do is to condemn the missiles that were and are being shot to israel.

 

Except I do condemn Hamas firing rockets into Israel. I have no sympathy for a group of al-Qaeda wannabes. I simply feel that we cannot ignore wrongdoings by Israel simply because they are fighting terrorists.

 

I also want you to answer this question: why is Hamas popular in Gaza?

[BTGBullseye]

Because everyone feels entitled to kill the people they decide they don't like.

[ThePest179]

Because everyone feels entitled to kill the people they decide they don't like.

 

Then why haven't right wing fundamentalists in the US started major terrorist groups and started creating death sqauds against the people they hate? It may have something to do with the fact that they aren't treated like second class citizens and are left in poverty.

[Vapymid]

Because everyone feels entitled to kill the people they decide they don't like.

 

I agree with this, for it applies equally to both sides.

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

Because everyone feels entitled to kill the people they decide they don't like.

 

Then why haven't right wing fundamentalists in the US started major terrorist groups and started creating death sqauds against the people they hate? It may have something to do with the fact that they aren't treated like second class citizens and are left in poverty.

So you're now implying that the left wouldn't? Both sides have in the past, but because of the USA's decent legal system, and decent law enforcement, those small groups are very rapidly apprehended and prosecuted.

[ThePest179]

So you're now implying that the left wouldn't?

 

No, simply trying to prove a point.

[BTGBullseye]

You haven't made any point that I can see... All I get from what you've said is that you think that we're somehow so much better than them by nature, which we aren't. (we merely have a decent legal system that actually works)

[ThePest179]

You haven't made any point that I can see... All I get from what you've said is that you think that we're somehow so much better than them by nature, which we aren't. (we merely have a decent legal system that actually works)

 

My point was that people don't go around killing civilians and committing war crimes for no damn reason.

[BTGBullseye]

No one ever said they did... There are always reasons, whether good or bad there are always reasons. Also, bear in mind that "I don't like what that person looks like" has been a valid reason for killing for many for the past several millennia in all countries. (and even happens frequently in the USA today, they just aren't very publicized)

[ThePest179]

No one ever said they did... There are always reasons, whether good or bad there are always reasons. Also, bear in mind that "I don't like what that person looks like" has been a valid reason for killing for many for the past several millennia in all countries. (and even happens frequently in the USA today, they just aren't very publicized)

 

Then you accept that this is true for both sides in the conflict, yes?

[BTGBullseye]

I have been saying that all along... But from what I've seen and hear, the Palestinians are doing it against the Israelis, and the Israelis are doing it against the ones that are hostile in the first place. (meaning Israel has the moral high-ground IMO)

[ThePest179]

I have been saying that all along... But from what I've seen and hear, the Palestinians are doing it against the Israelis, and the Israelis are doing it against the ones that are hostile in the first place. (meaning Israel has the moral high-ground IMO)

 

Moral high ground my ass. The kidnappings didn't really happen near Gaza, and so far hundreds of people were arrested and there was a huge crackdown on Palestinians, prompting Hamas's rocket attacks. While fundamentally wrong, it would seem Hamas is attacking out of Israeli provocation.

[BTGBullseye]

And yet you haven't provided proof, only conjecture. Kidnappings don't have to occur in the most active location for them to be connected to a particular group.

 

As for Israel doing arrests, what were the arrests for, and who was arrested?