Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[ThePest179]

Israel has always been hated by its Muslim neighbors, having fought six different wars with each other in the 20th century alone, due to Israel occupying Jerusalem. The Palestinians get the most violent over it though, because their homeland is occupied by Israel. This is the region that could erupt into violence the easiest. The two country solution has been suggested many times, but never taken seriously. With all the shit happening in the Middle East (civil war in Syria, ethnic violence in Iraq, growing Iranian influence) I'm sure that another conflict in Palestine seems like the least of the world's worries, but I would not dismiss it.

 

Opinions are appreciated.

[Vapymid]

The resolution of this conflict depends on the compromise on Jerusalem.

 

Current Jewish thinking is that any compromise on that is unacceptable. Therefore, the Israeli policy is to keep Palestinians in untenable position economically until they either starve to death or leave.

 

There, however, does not appear to be an ultimate exit strategy for the Israelis except hoping that with time the Arabs will forget and forgive. This is clearly unrealistic and Arabs will seek vengeance for as long as both them and Israel continue to exist.

 

Long term prospects are not good for Israel in this situation - the US support will be withdrawn in years or decades, at the most, whereupon Israel will be left alone to face a bunch of very angry enemies.

 

Europe will not support Israel (if Israeli policies remain the same), neither will Russia. China does not know what or where Israel is. Africa has its own problems, so - no help from outside for the Jewish state unless they change their hard-headed and arrogant stance and seriously consider making peace with their neighbours and reach a compromise with the Palestinians.

 

That's what I think.

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

The thing is, Israel (as a nation) has been there longer than anyone else, and built over 95% of Jerusalem... You can't tell me they have less right to that place than anyone else.

[Vapymid]

If you are talking about some historic rights going down to Iron Age Kingdom of Israel etc - I do not consider those a serious claim (not to say that other peoples, like Philistines in Gaza, seem to have claims of similar validity).

 

Do some American Indian tribes have rights to claim back Manhattan? Should Spanish demands for "return" of Gibraltar be accepted? Should Falkland Islands be annexed by Argentina? Should Morocco be allowed to kick Spain out of Ceuta? Should Alsace be given to Germany? Does Mexico have a claim on Texas?

 

I consider it all spurious politicking, which should not be taken seriously.

 

As far as the legal rights are concerned, I believe that most countries in the world consider Israel's claims to East Jerusalem as illegitimate and their taking control of it - an illegal occupation.

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

I believe American soldiers should be put in Israel similar to how they are in South Korea. The US defends a small, worthless, country because of a communist neighbor, but won't defend a country that is at risk of being destroyed by Muslim neighbors?

 

(I don't care what happens to US soldiers, just as long they die defending the holy land)

[Axeldeath]

Should Falkland Islands be annexed by Argentina?

 

One of these things is not like the other.

[ThePest179]

I heard that there were recent peace talks between Palestine and Israel, but they don't seem to be going too well so far.

 

EDIT: It's more that the peace talks are focusing on the most controversial and hard to solve issues first, and causing the talks to stall.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Guest (see edit history)

[Doom Shepherd]

(I don't care what happens to US soldiers, just as long they die defending the holy land)

 

Maniac Fundie, huh?

[BTGBullseye]

I believe American soldiers should be put in Israel similar to how they are in South Korea. The US defends a small, worthless, country because of a communist neighbor, but won't defend a country that is at risk of being destroyed by Muslim neighbors?

Difference is that Israel can defend itself without us physically there...

 

(I don't care what happens to US soldiers, just as long they die defending the holy land)

That just made you some enemies...

[ThePest179]

The peace talks were cancelled after an incident between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian protesters. Goodbye hope for peace.

[BTGBullseye]

Might want to read some of this...

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news

[Collective Foal]

I personally believe that Israel should not be a country. The entire strip of land that is deemed "Holy land" to so many different cultures should not be given to any particular government or religion. Israel should be a UN policed no-man's-land where anyone desiring to pursue their religious interests can live without fear of persecution. I certainly don't believe giving the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic holy sites over to a Jewish government was a good idea EVER. Fuck the USA's desire to have a foothold in the middle-east. I'd rather TRY to resolve a 2000 year conflict than spend money taking care of some small country across the world from us that only pisses off the majority of people out there anyways.

[Angel Blood]

I studied the MEC this year, so maybe a vaguely educated fool could provide some information on the subject.

 

At the time that modern Israel was being formed, the Brits had made a "promise" to help the Jewish people establish a homeland in the mid-east in an attempt to get America into WW1. American Jews were useful at the time. However after it was done riots and so forth made out because of one thing.

 

The Arabs weren't happy with how Jerusalem was going to be divvied up, so they refused to accept an agreement. The UN decided that they weren't going to give them anything instead of the pittance they were going to be given anyway, then and bulldozed towns and left tens of thousands of Arabs destitute.

 

Some of my information could be inaccurate, but I'm having a look around in my coursebooks which talk a lot about this.

 

Personal opinion,shit would've gone down in the mid-east anyway, but Israel just complicated matters severely.

[BTGBullseye]

I personally believe that Israel should not be a country. The entire strip of land that is deemed "Holy land" to so many different cultures should not be given to any particular government or religion. Israel should be a UN policed no-man's-land where anyone desiring to pursue their religious interests can live without fear of persecution. I certainly don't believe giving the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic holy sites over to a Jewish government was a good idea EVER. Fuck the USA's desire to have a foothold in the middle-east. I'd rather TRY to resolve a 2000 year conflict than spend money taking care of some small country across the world from us that only pisses off the majority of people out there anyways.

The UN is crap... They can't defend shit, and their soldiers don't care about any of their missions, only themselves.

[Collective Foal]

The UN is crap... They can't defend shit, and their soldiers don't care about any of their missions, only themselves.

 

Probably true, but there needs to be an unbiased body in charge of that area. Nothing that can be religiously skewed.

[Vapymid]

I personally believe that Israel should not be a country. The entire strip of land that is deemed "Holy land" to so many different cultures should not be given to any particular government or religion. Israel should be a UN policed no-man's-land where anyone desiring to pursue their religious interests can live without fear of persecution. I certainly don't believe giving the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic holy sites over to a Jewish government was a good idea EVER.

 

That's almost precisely my own sentiment on this except that I have no problem with Israel being there as a country - I was thinking about Jerusalem, because it is that place that is at the core of the problem. Until Jerusalem status is not sorted there will be no peace in the Middle East.

 

The trouble is that the Israelis don't want to settle it as they are happy with the status quo, think that they can maintain the situation by force and are prepared to tough it out with the Arabs indefinitely. So, as long as there is no *real* international pressure on them, any Israeli talk of negotiations and agreeing peaceful solutions with the Palestinians is just a lip service and a deception.

 

Regards

[ThePest179]

I personally believe that Israel should not be a country. The entire strip of land that is deemed "Holy land" to so many different cultures should not be given to any particular government or religion. Israel should be a UN policed no-man's-land where anyone desiring to pursue their religious interests can live without fear of persecution. I certainly don't believe giving the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic holy sites over to a Jewish government was a good idea EVER. Fuck the USA's desire to have a foothold in the middle-east. I'd rather TRY to resolve a 2000 year conflict than spend money taking care of some small country across the world from us that only pisses off the majority of people out there anyways.

The UN is crap... They can't defend shit, and their soldiers don't care about any of their missions, only themselves.

 

Can you give me some sources for your claims on the U.N. please? In any case, this solution seems preferable for the world to adopt, if they would only do it (as long as the Jews, Muslim moderates, etc. are protected).

[Collective Foal]

Are you guys saying that I just basically solved the crisis by myself, or at least made a very good proposition that has a good chance of doing so? I love how stupid the human race as a whole can be. I mean really, entire world society. You were just outdone by a 17 year old boy. You can't possible be THAT bad.

[ThePest179]

Are you guys saying that I just basically solved the crisis by myself, or at least made a very good proposition that has a good chance of doing so?

Yes. Only problem I see in the problem is fighting between the Jews, Palestinians, and U.N./U.S. troops (fundamentalism).

[BTGBullseye]

The thing is that the Jews aren't doing anything to deserve the treatment that the Muslim countries are providing... There has never been any religious restrictions in Israel... Israel allows Muslims to come and go from their holy sites freely...

 

The only reason there is fighting is because the people in charge in the Muslim communities are trying to get more power, and they're using religion to get it.

 

As for the U.N. stuff... Go watch Black Hawk Down... (the U.N. troops refused to let more than the "maximum recommended occupancy" to ride in their APCs, even though it was live fire combat) I knew the family of one of the guys that died in that mission... The U.N. troops don't care about others in the warzones they occupy, only themselves.