Fermi paradox

[Seattleite]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

 

Plate the hull with them, and run cooling tubes around the inside... You can direct the thermal energy anywhere you want it to go. (and can even be used to generate electricity when it's not cooling)

 

Thermoelectric cooling generates more heat than it absorbs.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

 

Who says they have to use rockets, or can't use something that won't show up through the stellar wind?

 

Get in touch with reality, BTG. Ion thrusters still put out a LOT of heat.

 

Also, unless the aliens are using organic or certain optical computers, (we already have interfacing systems for binary and trinary [quantum] computers, both optical and not) we can still interface normally. (who can say with certainty they developed their computer tech radically differently than ours, and have no way to build a basic interface like we do)

 

You don't get how computers work, do you? Even if they use binary computers like ours, they are NOT going to be compatible. They would need to reverse-engineer all our programming languages and create new equipment that can directly interface with ours. That would take a LOT of time.

 

As for blooming, that is only for high-powered lasers that have constant output for long periods. It's easy to send a transmission with a low power laser or pulse laser into space, and not cause blooming. Even changing wavelengths can massively affect blooming from a laser. (using something similar to an x-ray or gamma ray laser, which would also theoretically increase the bandwidth considerably)

 

That's not true. Blooming is an ongoing process that happens with *all* lasers. And if you've got enough power to penetrate the atmosphere with any clarity, it *will* be significant. Even so, directed transmissions are difficult to direct and require a longer exposure time to make sure the message gets through. You have to *hit* the receiver with the beam, after dealing with atmospheric refraction, and whether we've talking about frequency or amplitude modulation you still need time to transmit large amounts of data. Unless they are sending very short, simple messages, this WILL be a detectable transmission because of the heat absorbed by the atmosphere. Every satellite and ground installation in our missile net anywhere near them will pick up the heat. They can't exactly read the message from that, no, but they will know something is there and is giving off heat, and where it's going.

 

Also, X-rays and gamma rays cannot be focused into a laser. Even higher-wavelength ultraviolet is difficult. Even if you could, ionizing radiation will massively increase blooming, and is readily absorbed by the atmosphere. Seriously, do some research.

[BTGBullseye]

Thermoelectric does generate more heat, but only away from the side you want to cool. (net result, not a problem for my theory)

 

I never said Ion thrusters didn't, they just put out significantly less than a standard rocket, and it is easy to lose it in the background. (talk to some of the people working at NASA, they'll tell you the same)

 

I understand how computers work perfectly. Interfaces are a lot easier than you think, and reverse engineering our programming languages is not necessary. All you have to do is tap into the processor of one computer, and watch it run code for a few minutes to get a decent basic interface. (I've seen it done in-person twice)

 

I'd like to see some kind of proof that the sources from actual laser researchers on Wikipedia that I looked through are false concerning blooming.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_laser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray_laser

[Seattleite]

Thermoelectric does generate more heat, but only away from the side you want to cool. (net result, not a problem for my theory)

 

Convection doesn't allow it, yet again. Heat doesn't stay in one place. Any extra heat you generate will spread throughout the ship, and with nothing directly contacting the ship on the outside far more will spread through the ship than radiate directly off on the side you want it.

 

I never said Ion thrusters didn't, they just put out significantly less than a standard rocket, and it is easy to lose it in the background. (talk to some of the people working at NASA, they'll tell you the same)

 

They'd still be clearly visible anywhere between here and the moon, and still fairly visible beyond that.

 

I understand how computers work perfectly. Interfaces are a lot easier than you think, and reverse engineering our programming languages is not necessary. All you have to do is tap into the processor of one computer, and watch it run code for a few minutes to get a decent basic interface. (I've seen it done in-person twice)

 

Is there a programmer in the audience to explain to him why this is ludicrous? And hell, why not get a hardware guy in here to explain the other half. I'm too tired to do it tonight.

 

I'd like to see some kind of proof that the sources from actual laser researchers on Wikipedia that I looked through are false concerning blooming.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_laser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray_laser

 

Read your own sources, you debunked yourself.

[BTGBullseye]

Thermoelectric does generate more heat, but only away from the side you want to cool. (net result, not a problem for my theory)

 

Convection doesn't allow it, yet again. Heat doesn't stay in one place. Any extra heat you generate will spread throughout the ship, and with nothing directly contacting the ship on the outside far more will spread through the ship than radiate directly off on the side you want it.

You haven't shown any evidence to support that conclusion.

 

I never said Ion thrusters didn't, they just put out significantly less than a standard rocket, and it is easy to lose it in the background. (talk to some of the people working at NASA, they'll tell you the same)

 

They'd still be clearly visible anywhere between here and the moon, and still fairly visible beyond that.

Proof?

 

I understand how computers work perfectly. Interfaces are a lot easier than you think, and reverse engineering our programming languages is not necessary. All you have to do is tap into the processor of one computer, and watch it run code for a few minutes to get a decent basic interface. (I've seen it done in-person twice)

 

Is there a programmer in the audience to explain to him why this is ludicrous? And hell, why not get a hardware guy in here to explain the other half. I'm too tired to do it tonight.

I AM a hardware guy. Been doing it for 20 years.

 

I'd like to see some kind of proof that the sources from actual laser researchers on Wikipedia that I looked through are false concerning blooming.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_laser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray_laser

 

Read your own sources, you debunked yourself.

I did read them. Didn't see anything that disproved what I was saying.

[Vapymid]

They would need to reverse-engineer all our programming languages and create new equipment that can directly interface with ours.

 

Most of the information on the internet exists as plain text.

 

Assuming the aliens already have a working knowledge of English, all they need to know to be able to gather that data is

 

ASCII Latin character set

TCP/IP

HTML

 

Next, they can learn or reverse engineer a common (say, x86-based) CPU instruction set and build a virtual machine on their own hardware.

 

Then they download a pirate copy of Windows, Firefox and FoxIt Acrobat reader and they are all set! They can even get Flash and watch cat videos and pr0n

 

To do the initial decoding and tapping into the 'net they can listen to public Wi-Fi (being wireless it does not even need a hardware interface) and then eventually get a connection.

 

Once they have learned enough about our more sophisticated IT hardware and infrastructure they could attempt sending an underwater probe to tap into a backbone cable (not a trivial job, to cut into a fiber-optic feed, but - hey, they are the ETs!)

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

not a trivial job, to cut into a fiber-optic feed

Hence the suggestion to tap into NSA instead... They already have the fiber taps.

[Vapymid]

Yes. Use the indigenous resources, make the targets work on collecting all that information and bringing it to you.

 

Regards

[Seattleite]

Yes. Use the indigenous resources, make the targets work on collecting all that information and bringing it to you.

 

Regards

 

Which is EXACTLY what I was saying.

[Vapymid]

The difference between us is that you say the locals' knowing participation is required, whereas I think it is purely optional.

 

Regards

[Seattleite]

The difference between us is that you say the locals' knowing participation is required, whereas I think it is purely optional.

 

Regards

 

If you think you can tap into the NSA without their knowledge and maintain it for ANY amount of time, you're completely insane.

[Vapymid]

Your faith in uberhuman superiority of your email-reading, yahoo-sexy-selfies-watching, Merkel-phone-listening spy overlords is as exemplary as it is unfounded.

 

Regards

[Seattleite]

They have a firm handle on their own computers and their own networks, alright? That's ALL they need.

[Vapymid]

They have a firm handle on their own computers and their own networks

 

Do they? We should ask Mr Snowden, I guess...

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

I know none of you are going to believe me, but I do know someone who can walk right through the NSA firewalls without their knowledge. Remote monitoring hardware, (fits in a car, and is rather easily concealed) high-rez scans for EM fluctuations at the locations of their computer systems, can determine what is running through the RAM, Processor, and either direct read off the platters of mechanical HDDs, or read the moving info from SSDs like it can the RAM. No outgoing emissions.

[Seattleite]

They have a firm handle on their own computers and their own networks

 

Do they? We should ask Mr Snowden, I guess...

 

Regards

 

Snowden had access because he was their OWN EMPLOYEE.

[Vapymid]

Remote monitoring hardware, (fits in a car, and is rather easily concealed) high-rez scans for EM fluctuations at the locations of their computer systems, can determine what is running through the RAM, Processor, and either direct read off the platters of mechanical HDDs, or read the moving info from SSDs like it can the RAM.

 

That sounds like a TEMPEST capability (probably slightly exaggerated), which, ironically, is the NSA's own codename for spying on EM emissions from computing equipment and networks.

 

Snowden had access because he was their OWN EMPLOYEE.

 

Yes, precisely. He was a trusted element inside the system. There are other trusted elements - some of them are computers and peripherals. You cannot effectively run any system without trusted components - it just won't work.

 

So, if you compromise such trusted computer or a router - you will gain access from the inside of the system, bearing in mind that most protections are designed to counter a threat from outside.

 

Also, the Snowden's case seems to show that their internal security was pretty lax, anyway.

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

Yeah, pretty close to TEMPEST, only the guy I'm talking about is working on making it a forced reversal of it too... Full remote hardware interface...

[Seattleite]

Keep in mind that they DO have people checking and monitoring those machines on a daily basis, if there was an unregistered tap, they would know the first time it was checked.

[BTGBullseye]

Not if it's a remote completely wireless tap... (which has been demonstrated)

[Seattleite]

If you think a remote, completely wireless tap is untraceable, you're insane.

If you think a remote, completely wireless tap of a heavily surveiled building where the main computers are underground inside a faraday cage, you're even more insane.

If you think a remote, completely wireless tap is both untraceable and can work on a heavily surveiled building where the main computers are underground inside a faraday cage, and still be untraceable, you seriously need to be committed as you are too detached from reality to live on your own.