Does God exist? (your opinion anyways.)

[Pinkie Pie]

From my understanding, the basis of Christianity is faith that Jesus existed, was God

In popular Christianity he's seen as the *son* of God who was sent down to Earth to die for our sins. Though in Catholic teaching God is seen as a trinity of three beings, God himself, Jesus, and Holy Spirit. I'm not an expert on...well...anything really though, so feel free to prove me wrong.

[alphabetagamma]

From my understanding, the basis of Christianity is faith that Jesus existed, was God

In popular Christianity he's seen as the *son* of God who was sent down to Earth to die for our sins. Though in Catholic teaching God is seen as a trinity of three beings, God himself, Jesus, and Holy Spirit. I'm not an expert on...well...anything really though, so feel free to prove me wrong.

I understand that, and the trinity isn't just Catholic. The trinity isn't the most important concept in christianity, nor is the word "trinity" actually used in the new testament.

 

The concept of the trinity means that because Jesus is part of the trinity he is also God. The holy spirit, the father and the son are all independant, but they are all one god.

[Doom Shepherd]

It's a shame they seem to have felt the need not to have a female aspect of God. I miss Sophia.

[BTGBullseye]

Belief in God (as most of you are viewing it) is equivalent to believing that evolution is more than just an unproven theory that supports some facts.

Evolution isn't a theory that supports some facts, it's a theory that is supported by facts.

Sorry, mixed up my wording.

[Koach]

I take the philosophical approach to the situation, and after lots of meditation and thinking about this, I figured out the following:

 

God DOES exist. Not as the bible depicts him/her/it, but as an unknown, very powerful force, which cannot be denied of abstract existence. Why? In my case, because there must be a reason why SO MANY PEOPLE believe in his/her/it's existance. God exists in millions of humans' hearts. That, is why I believe in him/her/it.

 

Besides... I had a quite... interesting experience I cannot explain in any other way but "God was responsible for this"... Only known by myself, very close friends, a priest, parents... and Blue (xD).

[alphabetagamma]

I take the philosophical approach to the situation, and after lots of meditation and thinking about this, I figured out the following:

 

God DOES exist. Not as the bible depicts him/her/it, but as an unknown, very powerful force, which cannot be denied of abstract existence. Why? In my case, because there must be a reason why SO MANY PEOPLE believe in his/her/it's existance. God exists in millions of humans' hearts. That, is why I believe in him/her/it.

 

Besides... I had a quite... interesting experience I cannot explain in any other way but "God was responsible for this"... Only known by myself, very close friends, a priest, parents... and Blue (xD).

People believed the earth was flat, and that the sun orbited the earth. That didn't make it true.

 

I don't expect you to share personal information or experiences, nor do I want to pressure you to, so I don't have a rebuttal for your second point.

[BTGBullseye]

People believed the earth was flat, and that the sun orbited the earth. That didn't make it true.

That same rebuttal is better used against the evolution argument, since it was known that the world was not flat long before secular interests proclaimed it to be flat.

[Eedo Baba]

Why? In my case, because there must be a reason why SO MANY PEOPLE believe in his/her/it's existance.

 

Human psychology. That's the reason why so many people believe in God. It doesn't even take much thought to see that humans invariably look to fill in the gaps with mystical and religious thoughts. For example, early humans didn't know what controlled the movement of the sun, so they assumed some higher power responsible, usually a god. Today, science explains so very much of the world, that the only question left for God to answer is the actual birth of the universe. The kicker is that there are actually scientific theories for that as well, but they're too hard for most people to understand, so they opt to believe in God instead.

[Doom Shepherd]

People believed the earth was flat, and that the sun orbited the earth. That didn't make it true.

That same rebuttal is better used against the evolution argument, since it was known that the world was not flat long before secular interests proclaimed it to be flat.

 

Hrm. Not exactly. The Greeks realized that the earth was spherical around 600 BC. SOME Later Christian authors disagreed, mainly based on a distrust of anything "pagan" rather than any Biblically-based arguments. But for the most part, disagreement rather centered on whether or not the "antipodes" could be inhabited.

 

For the most part, however, belief that the people of the Middle Ages believed that the Earth was flat actually originated fairly recently. It is now widely understood among historians that no serious educated person* has believed the world was flat since around 800 AD.

 

The Myth of the Flat Earth can be blamed largely on Washinton Irving, who popularized it in his book about Columbus.

 

*In Europe. The Chinese didn't actually get it until after the 1500's... and then pretended they ORIGINATED the idea.

[Pinkie Pie]

That last part actually made me lol.

[BrutalOrange]

Yeah, I believe God exists. There's so many things that prove it plus if I believed God doesn't exist and I died, he'd be pissed at me but if I believed he exists and I died, even if I was evil then he could just forgive me. It's a win/win situation know what I mean?

[Axeldeath]

There's so many things that prove it

 

For example.

 

plus if I believed God doesn't exist and I died, he'd be pissed at me but if I believed he exists and I died, even if I was evil then he could just forgive me. It's a win/win situation know what I mean?

 

Pascal's Wager.

[BrutalOrange]

There's so many things that prove it

 

For example.

 

First off I'm a Muslim, and there's a couple reasons for that.

 

1. My family is Muslim, the half I grew up with anyway.

2. I'm amazed with islamic culture.

3. The Quran, it's definitely the word of God.

 

Let me get into the final reason a bit. I've looked around a bit and found some amazing stuff in the Quran. Here's some examples. First, it mentions the fact that stars eventually die out (bear in mind the Quran is 1400 years old). It mentions the fact that the atmosphere has 7 layers (troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere, ionosphere, and magnetosphere) . It mentions the fact the universe is constantly expanding. It mentions the role of one of Pharaoh's most prominent aids, Haman, when the details of hieroglyphic translation were only discovered two centuries ago. It predicts that humans will one day explore space. It mentions the programming of genetics. Heck, it even mentions the cloning of living organisms.

 

I doubt anyone in 7th century Arabia knew of any of that, which is why I believe in God. Also, there's so many miracles recorded in history, and miracles don't just come from nowhere. Oh, and I don't think we just came just like poof, there has to be something that created our universe.

[Kirkreng]

"Miracles" are usually have no proof of ever having happened or have scientific proof as to why they happened.

 

And what you mentioned about the Quran is definitely interesting. However those may very well be coincidences, especially since what you mention are very broad things to assume. But I don't think such broad predictions can really act as factual proof.

[Epsilon]

There's so many things that prove it

 

For example.

 

First off I'm a Muslim, and there's a couple reasons for that.

 

1. My family is Muslim, the half I grew up with anyway.

2. I'm amazed with islamic culture.

3. The Quran, it's definitely the word of God.

 

Let me get into the final reason a bit. I've looked around a bit and found some amazing stuff in the Quran. Here's some examples. First, it mentions the fact that stars eventually die out (bear in mind the Quran is 1400 years old). It mentions the fact that the atmosphere has 7 layers (troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere, ionosphere, and magnetosphere) . It mentions the fact the universe is constantly expanding. It mentions the role of one of Pharaoh's most prominent aids, Haman, when the details of hieroglyphic translation were only discovered two centuries ago. It predicts that humans will one day explore space. It mentions the programming of genetics. Heck, it even mentions the cloning of living organisms.

 

I doubt anyone in 7th century Arabia knew of any of that, which is why I believe in God. Also, there's so many miracles recorded in history, and miracles don't just come from nowhere. Oh, and I don't think we just came just like poof, there has to be something that created our universe.

 

I myself am Christian, and do not wish to be inflammatory, but could you please answer these objections toward the Qur'an/Islam I've found?

 

 

Q: Since the Koran (Qur'an) acknowledged the words of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Jesus and His apostles as authoritative (Surah 2:136, 17:55), how do you account for the conflicts between the Bible and the Koran such as the Koran's claim that Jesus was not crucified? (Surah 4:157)

 

Q: Since the Koran was written around 600 AD, a time when current manuscripts of the Christian Bible were available, what is the evidence that the Christian Bible has been corrupted SINCE then?

 

Q: SInce the Koran claims that the words of Allah cannot be changed (Surah 6:34, 6:115), how do you support your position that the previous words of Allah in the 'Book' (the Bible) have been changed?

 

Q: If Islam claims to be a peaceful religion, how do you account for the verses in the Koran such as this one from Surah 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

 

Q: How do you account for the claim in the Koran that Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Aaron since they lived hundreds of years apart? (Surah 19 27-28)

 

Q: Do you believe, as stated in the Hadith book of Sahîh al-Bukhârî Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543 that Adam was 60 cubits (90 feet) tall?

 

[Axeldeath]

Let me get into the final reason a bit. I've looked around a bit and found some amazing stuff in the Quran. Here's some examples. First, it mentions the fact that stars eventually die out (bear in mind the Quran is 1400 years old). It mentions the fact that the atmosphere has 7 layers (troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere, ionosphere, and magnetosphere) . It mentions the fact the universe is constantly expanding. It mentions the role of one of Pharaoh's most prominent aids, Haman, when the details of hieroglyphic translation were only discovered two centuries ago. It predicts that humans will one day explore space. It mentions the programming of genetics. Heck, it even mentions the cloning of living organisms.

 

Is that the same as how the Quran "predicted" pi? i.e. Crap made up by theologists to convert people?

[BrutalOrange]

 

Q: Since the Koran was written around 600 AD, a time when current manuscripts of the Christian Bible were available, what is the evidence that the Christian Bible has been corrupted SINCE then?

 

Q: SInce the Koran claims that the words of Allah cannot be changed (Surah 6:34, 6:115), how do you support your position that the previous words of Allah in the 'Book' (the Bible) have been changed?

 

Q: If Islam claims to be a peaceful religion, how do you account for the verses in the Koran such as this one from Surah 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

 

Q: How do you account for the claim in the Koran that Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Aaron since they lived hundreds of years apart? (Surah 19 27-28)

 

Q: Do you believe, as stated in the Hadith book of Sahîh al-Bukhârî Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543 that Adam was 60 cubits (90 feet) tall?

 

Unfortunately, I don't have enough knowledge to answer these questions, I'm not a very religious person, but I'll try to answer what I can, the best I can.

 

Q: Since the Koran was written around 600 AD, a time when current manuscripts of the Christian Bible were available, what is the evidence that the Christian Bible has been corrupted SINCE then?

 

I don't fully understand the question (English is not my native language), but I believe the evidence that the Bible could be corrupt is because there's so many "versions" of Christianity. There's Catholic, Orthodox, and so on. I'm not sure if these "versions" have different Bibles or not but if they don't then I could be wrong (because then Islam has Sunni and Shia with same Quran but slightly different traditions, if it's the same case with Christianity, then I'm wrong) and that's my evidence BTW, this was not mentioned in the Quran or somewhere else.

 

 

Q: SInce the Koran claims that the words of Allah cannot be changed (Surah 6:34, 6:115), how do you support your position that the previous words of Allah in the 'Book' (the Bible) have been changed?

 

Any verse in the Quran could have a different meaning than you think. I know that anyone can grab the Bible or the Quran and a pen and change the words. But I believe it means that the promises and the will of God cannot be changed by man but that's just me. I do know for a fact that the Quran has much more deeper meanings than the obvious ones.

 

 

Q: How do you account for the claim in the Koran that Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Aaron since they lived hundreds of years apart? (Surah 19 27-28)

 

In Arabic the word sister may refer to many things. It doesn't always has to mean sister as in the english form. In Arabic, the word sister or brother may mean close to in a certain way. Like for example, as young Muslims, we were taught that all Muslims are brothers. Does that mean that all Muslims have the same mother or father? No. It means we are brothers in Islam because we all worship the same God with the same ways. Ugh, It's really hard to explain when English is not my native language. Here, take a look at this explanation I found:

 

""Sister of Aaron" may either mean that Mary had a brother of the name of Aaron, or it may mean that she belonged to the family of Prophet Aaron. The first meaning is supported by a tradition of the Holy Prophet and the second is plausible because that is supported by the Arabic idiom. But we are inclined to the second meaning, for the wording of the said tradition does not necessarily mean that she actually had a brother named Aaron. The tradition as related in Muslim, Nasa'i, Tirmizi, etc. says that when the Christians of Najran criticised the Quranic version of stating Mary as the sister of Aaron before Hadrat Mughirah bin Shu`bah, he was not able to satisfy them, because Prophet Aaron had passed away centuries earlier. When he presented the problem before the Holy Prophet, he replied, "Why didn't you say that the Israelites named their children after their Prophets and other pious men?" That is, "You could have answered their objection like this as well.""

 

Q: Do you believe, as stated in the Hadith book of Sahîh al-Bukhârî Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543 that Adam was 60 cubits (90 feet) tall?

 

I didn't really know about that Hadith but I did some searching and I found this story:

 

TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against their "Epicurean" counterparts.

 

The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to travel through.

 

"Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the pre-nutrition age."

 

As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious absurdity to this myth."

 

 

That's what I could answer with my limited knowledge and this vast internet. The ones I left out is because I don't think I know the answer. Again, I'm not a very religious person.

 

 

Is that the same as how the Quran "predicted" pi? i.e. Crap made up by theologists to convert people?

 

I am not trying to convert anyone here. I know I can't. I'm simply trying to prove the existence of God. It's your choice whether to believe or not. And all of that wasn't made up. Here's an article to prove that cloning was mentioned in the Quran (although in a rather indirect way): http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_101.html

 

The verse is true, I just checked. And the translation is correct.

[Epsilon]

Your argument's fair enough; it's not strong enough to make me want to convert to Islam, but I suppose it suffices.

 

But how about what Osama Bin Laden told his children? He may have been a radical, but I recall jihad being a key part of Islam.

[Kirkreng]

Again, I'm not a very religious person.

This is always kind of a mystery to me. In my mind you can only be religious or not. How is someone just a little religious? Wouldn't that mean you aren't really religious?

I used to be christian and I went to church and stuff, but for example I wouldn't read the bible or say prayers all the time. I was kind of "not very religious". Later, after a lot of thinking, I realized that I only "believed" in god because I grew up that way and was told to do so.

My point is, if you are religious, i.e. believe in a god, wouldn't you fully embrace it, rather than just somewhat embrace it? Wouldn't you want to find out everything about the such a powerful being whose rules you follow? Do everything to worship such god? What is your excuse for not doing so? Simply for convenience? But if you truly believed in this god wouldn't that have more priority than your own convenience?

 

I am not trying to attack you, or any other religious person for that matter. I don't aim to convert you or anything either. I just like questioning things.

[BrutalOrange]

Again, I'm not a very religious person.

This is always kind of a mystery to me. In my mind you can only be religious or not. How is someone just a little religious? Wouldn't that mean you aren't really religious?

I used to be christian and I went to church and stuff, but for example I wouldn't read the bible or say prayers all the time. I was kind of "not very religious". Later, after a lot of thinking, I realized that I only "believed" in god because I grew up that way and was told to do so.

My point is, if you are religious, i.e. believe in a god, wouldn't you fully embrace it, rather than just somewhat embrace it? Wouldn't you want to find out everything about the such a powerful being whose rules you follow? Do everything to worship such god? What is your excuse for not doing so? Simply for convenience? But if you truly believed in this god wouldn't that have more priority than your own convenience?

 

I am not trying to attack you, or any other religious person for that matter. I don't aim to convert you or anything either. I just like questioning things.

 

Yeah, no problem. I too like to ask questions a lot. The reason I said I'm not very religious is because although I do believe in God and all of that, I'm just not doing my duty to it's full extent. There's things I have to do but I'm only doing like half of them. I embrace the idea of God, but I'm a lazy person. Know what I mean? I'm slowing getting more and more active in life though.

 

But how about what Osama Bin Laden told his children? He may have been a radical, but I recall jihad being a key part of Islam.

 

I never really considered Bin Laden a true Muslim. Jihad (fighting in the name of God) is part of Islam, yes, but it's not mandatory and in Islam it only says to fight whoever opposes you because of your religion, otherwise try to convert people by peaceful means (as far as I know, anyway). Killing innocent, peaceful civilians is just something a true Muslim would never do. Also it's kinda odd that he tells his children to learn in the west, where they could get bombed by his followers. I have to say, that would be amazingly ironic.

 

Now, let's not go off topic.