Self-Sacrifice: Is there a limit?

[Ian]

As I drove through a busy road going to school, I did not let anyone get in front of me in order to avoid being late for class. However, I was a bit distraught after that because that was not my behavior at all. I cannot say I am a push-over, but I generally sacrifice many opportunities for others. I do not ask if self-sacrifice is good or bad, for one, because they do not exist, but also because, if they are, then they are relative. What I ask is this: in your opinion, is there a limit to self-sacrifice? Or, do you limit yourself?

[Blue]

Is there any limit applied to those willing to be martyrs?

[Doom Shepherd]

Okay, case study:

 

My gf was born with cervical ribs. These are ribs that grow sideways from the way regular ribs grow, off the cervical vertebrae. They can wrap around blood vessels and/or the heart, causing a loss of circulation and even loss of limbs if left untreated.

 

This problem was not found until her last year in college. She had to undergo two major surgeries to remove the ribs, or lose her arms, becase the ribs were tightening around her major arteries.

 

JUST after her surgeries, and I'm talking days after, her older sister went through complications from childbirth, and was confined to a bed, leaving 4 kids to tend to. Her husband was working to support the family. Her other siblings were soo far away (or too self-centered) to help.

 

On her own, my gf volunteered to care for all 4 kids, without having had any time to recuperate from her own surgeries. She did this for several years, and suffered considerably as a result. She is STILL suffering, 20-odd years later, because her surgeries did not heal properly due to the strain she put them under.

 

Meanwhile, she and the sister had a falling-out (because sister is a Class-A Giant Bitch - believe me, I've met her) and because of this, gf hasn't seen these kids in years. So, not even that benefit.

 

And now, of course, gf couldn't care for anyone else (like me, for instance) because of all the damage she suffered back then. She's disabled, can't work, and has to subsist on SSI.

 

So, yeah. There's a limit. If you destroy yourself with caring, you'll never be able to be any good to anyone else afterwards.

 

Martyrdom is stupid.

[ProHypster]

I'm sorry to hear that story, but why are you not married (just out of curiosity) or is that your former gf you talk about?

 

Anyways, there is no such thing as self-sacrifice, when we do sacrifice some body of ours it is for our own psychological benefit.

 

For example, we tend to think that we work for money/ to support our family/ To give to someone poor.., and that we would never work if we had a million dollars. Hence in a way working is self-sacrifice. That is incorrect though.

 

In reality we work for social and psychological reasons. Money is a secondary reason.

We work so people wouldn't make fun of our status, because we need a psychological challenge each day to feel good and stay fit, and if it's physical work a lot of us do it because we fit into that culture of "assholes" at the industry and it make us feel like men .

 

Only you can decide when you want to sacrifice your body, psychological tension or not for something else that will benefit you anyway. In reality we never do anything that doesn't benefit ourselves.

 

The brain or as some people say the "heart" needs to provide sacrifice to be happy about living and existing. It is a complex thing.

 

But the point is, you should self-sacrifice as much as you REALLY want to and no more. In fact I think self-sacrifice is like sex or hunger except it's not what the body needs, it's what the brain/heart needs. You can feed it, but you should think each time through if it was really worth it just like eating or having sex or drinking or smoking...

[Doom Shepherd]

I'm sorry to hear that story, but why are you not married (just out of curiosity) or is that your former gf you talk about?

It's simple, and it's mainly because our tax/benefit system sucks.

 

See, if my gf marries someone making above a certain income, she loses most of her benefits. Unfortunately, in her case, her benefits are really needed. I'm above that income, but just barely, and I can't afford to make up the difference, mainly because her prescriptions are numerous and expensive.

 

Plus, our income tax system includes something called the "marriage penalty," meaning that married couples can't deduct as much as two individuals. Also, I can't claim her as a dependent and take that deduction, either.

 

So instead, we've just been "together" for 14 years. Which, amusingly enough, is longer than most married couples I know have managed to stay together.

 

For example, we tend to think that we work for money/ to support our family/ To give to someone poor.., and that we would never work if we had a million dollars. Hence in a way working is self-sacrifice. That is incorrect though.

 

If I were rich enough that I never had to work again, I might volunteer at a local library... but only so I could smack down all the people who were asses to the librarians without actually being in danger of losing my livelihood.

 

So yeah, that supports the "for psychological reasons" argument, I guess.

[Ian]

Yes, it does seem to be a psychological reason, and I believe it varies a lot depending on how you view your own worth.

[ProHypster]

Yes, it does seem to be a psychological reason, and I believe it varies a lot depending on how you view your own worth.

I feel a little bad about not even presenting the other side, other theory.

 

Basically it states that in reality it's not our brain that needs this but our soul, whenever we sacrifice for something we are feeding our soul. When we do something that we feel bad about it's killing the soul. This soul is what will be left of you when you die, therefore you should feed it well.

 

You could merge the soul and brain and create a third theory of it...

 

I understand if you feel like the rather scientific theory ironically makes us feel bad in our conscience about the way how humans are selfish in nature. It can be hard to accept that theory.

 

Anyway,

People wish the world was (unrealisticly) better but this view, although rational, only has negative effects.

I just say that this world could have been much worse and enjoy it as it is.

 

We only live once, we shouldn't live our whole life regretting that life is as it is.

[Angel Blood]

I help other people, and happily self-sacrifice because I love and care about how others are feeling. I'm a pretty emotional guy, and my friends themselves know that I'd lay down my life if it meant that they'd survive something.

I can be the biggest asshole of the bunch, but when it comes down to it, I'll protect anyone and od anything to help them.

[Michael Archer]

Self-sacrifice is evil, in any context.

 

What is self-sacrifice? Self-sacrifice is when you relinquish a higher value in exchange for an inferior value. In other words, it's ridding yourself of the good to obtain the worthless.

 

I can already hear some of you angrily typing on your keyboard now, "So caring for anyone else is evil? What are you--a destroyer of love?!"; those of you who are thinking that are context-droppers. Caring for someone else is selfish; provided that someone you are caring for is one of your chosen values. It is not self-sacrifice to give a loved one money when it would not hurt you, provided that the person you're giving money to is valued higher than the sum of money; this would be a selfish act. To be a bit more clear, it is not sacrifice if you give food to your child if you personally are starving, this is a moral, selfish act. It would be immoral to give that food to your neighbor's child, when your own is starving.

 

Self-sacrifice is immoral: The rational/moral action is to pursue your values in order from most important to least important; the self-sacrifice/immoral action is to destroy the values you hold dear. This is nihilism: the destruction of the good for the sake of destruction.

 

So to answer your question: the only limit is your life and how much destruction can you take until you die.

 

This was a good topic of discussion. This board index needs more philosophical questions.

[Vapymid]

As I drove through a busy road going to school, I did not let anyone get in front of me in order to avoid being late for class. However, I was a bit distraught after that because that was not my behavior at all.

 

What does it have to do with self-sacrifice???

 

You are talking about somple politeness. Humans are social animals and politeness to others is one of the key requirement for cohesive society. We cannot achieve 99.9% of what is necessary for survival and progress without cooperation and adjusting of our individual behaviour so as not to, unreasonably, inconvenience others is a basic part of our psychology.

 

As for self-scrifice, well, if you'd blocked a machine gun pillbox ambrasure with your body to allow the rest of your squad to advance and take it out - that's self sacrifice. Discuss that if you like...

 

Regards

[ProHypster]

What is self-sacrifice? Self-sacrifice is when you relinquish a higher value in exchange for an inferior value. In other words, it's ridding yourself of the good to obtain the worthless.

Oh god, not this again, that statement is simply false. That's not what self-sacrifice is...

 

What is a bird? It is a type of evil wizard that will kill you once you meet it.

 

@Vapymid

 

I think it counts as self-sacrifice because if he were to let the drivers drive by then he would sacrifice his psychological damage (Being late for class) for the idea that the people around him have more serious stuff to do or simply out of kindness.

It's a really mild case but it's still self-sacrifice.

 

Self-Sacrifice can be Psychological and Physical as I said

[Michael Archer]

From Merriam-Webster:

 

"something given up or lost; loss"

 

So self-sacrifice means "giving up or losing part of yourself." That's nihilism and evil.

[ProHypster]

.... Michael, if you believe that, I understand, I understand why you think how you think on these topics now anyways.

 

If that is all you have to post on this matter, I will gladly reply to it "I disagree" and carry on.

[Ian]

The majority of people do not have a clue what nihilism means. I may make another topic just on that.

[BTGBullseye]

The majority of people do not have a clue what nihilism means. I may make another topic just on that.

Or we can just post this link everywhere... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

[Pinkie Pie]

Okay, case study:

 

My gf was born with cervical ribs. These are ribs that grow sideways from the way regular ribs grow, off the cervical vertebrae. They can wrap around blood vessels and/or the heart, causing a loss of circulation and even loss of limbs if left untreated.

 

This problem was not found until her last year in college. She had to undergo two major surgeries to remove the ribs, or lose her arms, becase the ribs were tightening around her major arteries.

 

JUST after her surgeries, and I'm talking days after, her older sister went through complications from childbirth, and was confined to a bed, leaving 4 kids to tend to. Her husband was working to support the family. Her other siblings were soo far away (or too self-centered) to help.

 

On her own, my gf volunteered to care for all 4 kids, without having had any time to recuperate from her own surgeries. She did this for several years, and suffered considerably as a result. She is STILL suffering, 20-odd years later, because her surgeries did not heal properly due to the strain she put them under.

 

Meanwhile, she and the sister had a falling-out (because sister is a Class-A Giant Bitch - believe me, I've met her) and because of this, gf hasn't seen these kids in years. So, not even that benefit.

 

And now, of course, gf couldn't care for anyone else (like me, for instance) because of all the damage she suffered back then. She's disabled, can't work, and has to subsist on SSI.

 

So, yeah. There's a limit. If you destroy yourself with caring, you'll never be able to be any good to anyone else afterwards.

 

Martyrdom is stupid.

I hate to be a prude but I'm actually really interested in how the sister can be such a bitch as to have a falling out with someone who helped take care of her kids while suffering through pain like that. That's just...well, bitchy.

[Vapymid]

I think it counts as self-sacrifice because if he were to let the drivers drive by then he would sacrifice his psychological damage

 

I disagree. In fact, his post evidences the opposite. He didn't give way to others for a reason which in his mind is of questionable importance and he suffered the psychological distress as the result. So, he overrode his social instinct and he paid for it. If he'd gave way to others he would have been rewarded by feeling good about it. Hence, it's not a self-sacrifice.

 

Regards

[ProHypster]

I think it counts as self-sacrifice because if he were to let the drivers drive by then he would sacrifice his psychological damage

 

I disagree. In fact, his post evidences the opposite. He didn't give way to others for a reason which in his mind is of questionable importance and he suffered the psychological distress as the result. So, he overrode his social instinct and he paid for it. If he'd gave way to others he would have been rewarded by feeling good about it. Hence, it's not a self-sacrifice.

 

Regards

Dude, I was talking about "IF" he did otherwise it would be self-sacrifice, that was his main point anyway, that he felt bad for not self-sacrificing. If he did otherewise, he would have had sacrificed his "Being on time", and possibly "reputation with a teacher" for some other people. It doesn't matter that he feels good about it. A soldier sacrificing himself for his comrades feels good about it just before he dies. Self-sacrifice always makes you feel good in the social part of the brain but not good in physical or other phscyhological effects

[Vapymid]

Yeah, but you really set the plank for sacrifice too low. You cannot consider resisting the smallest impulse or desire or accepting minor inconveniences a sacrifice. Call it compromise, balance, whatever but sacrifice?

 

A soldier sacrificing himself for his comrades feels good about it just before he dies.

 

Are you really, really sure about that?

 

Regards

[ProHypster]

Yeah, but you really set the plank for sacrifice too low. You cannot consider resisting the smallest impulse or desire or accepting minor inconveniences a sacrifice. Call it compromise, balance, whatever but sacrifice?

 

A soldier sacrificing himself for his comrades feels good about it just before he dies.

 

Are you really, really sure about that?

 

Regards

 

Yes he does, just the idea of doing it makes him feel like a hero. But then he does it feels like a true man despite of pain. Then he dies.

 

Self-sacrifice happens every day in a minor way, think about it before you answer again questioning it.