Are you a lady or a gentleman.

[Eedo Baba]

His opinion was badly stated, but well meaninged, Alyxx.

I think he means to say that one shouldn't think that their consiousness is inherantly one gender or another, because as gays have taught us, there are no actual laws that connect genders with sexual orientation. Gender is a trait of physical identity. Sexuality is a mental trait, and they are separate.

[Michael Archer]

Badly stated?

 

Ok, I'm not a master wordsmith--but for my sake, would you mind pointing out why? I want to know so I don't make the same mistake in the future. I won't be offended by your corrections unless they're explicitly intended to insult me personally.

[Eedo Baba]

Well, you called a group of people "deluded", but your meaning behind that could easily be misconstrued.

The rest of your post's intent is kind of hidden behind that one bold claim, is what I'm saying.

[Alyxx Thorne]

To be honest, I think Michael is being cynical and cold with that statement.

 

But I won't start any flame war here or insult him in any way. My point is that people aren't just physical beings. He has a point about gender being a physical thing but it's really a lot more complicated than that and gender can be a very abstract thing to some people, especially those who feel they have been born into the wrong body. I don't expect him to understand that, since he clearly has proven his inability to do so.

[Eedo Baba]

To be honest, I think Michael is being cynical and cold with that statement.

 

But I won't start any flame war here or insult him in any way. My point is that people aren't just physical beings. He has a point about gender being a physical thing but it's really a lot more complicated than that and gender can be a very abstract thing to some people, especially those who feel they have been born into the wrong body. I don't expect him to understand that, since he clearly has proven his inability to do so.

 

I'd say the opposing point is that gender and sexuality are separate. You seem to be relating gender and sexuality in a way as to read his point as being that gender AND sexuality are entirely physical, which I think is not his point at all.

 

lol, trying pretty hard to act as moderator here.

[Alyxx Thorne]

I've stated my opinion, I don't feel the need to further elaborate on it.

[Michael Archer]

Well, you called a group of people "deluded"...the rest of your post's intent is kind of hidden behind that one bold claim, is what I'm saying.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. My answer is, what do you call people who's perception of reality is provably impaired?

 

My point is that people aren't just physical beings.

 

I don't understand what you mean. Are you postulating something existing outside of reality?

 

I don't expect him to understand that, since he clearly has proven his inability to do so.

 

You're right; I accept reality, that's all. It's the same reason why I don't believe in...NO, END SENTENCE--BEGIN A NEW.

[Alyxx Thorne]

Seems to me like you're pretty much a realist, Michael. But my point is that when you label people like that, it's sure to bring out some negative responses. But I guess you don't care.

[Scorpia]

Edit: ninja's

...dude i'm not even going to begin to touch that one. seriously out of everything that you said- are you trying to be offensive?

 

forget not touching it, i just feel like it; okay so penis=male, alright, genetically true(sometimes).

 

but what about that man sitting in his room who's particularly sensitive, likes girly music, loves to bake- ah, whatever billions of stereotypes i can think up, but t.v says "FOOTBALL!!!", "RACING", "feelings are gay", "cool guys don't look at explosions", whatever...he less than all of a sudden decides, he hates his body, wants to be a girl, or thought of like a girl. is that so wrong?

 

you can amount it up to delusions, when dude, the real delusion here is thinking this crisis of identity isn't normal. humans are evolving. a woman liking video games isn't weird anymore, a man eloping to Canada with an understanding man named Drew isn't such a cause for stoning.

 

you'll probably argue it's a genetic glitch, or these people are just plain freaks, but at the end of the day what they're asking for isn't wrong- after all it's not really like we can choose, i didn't choose to be a man, i was born a man, i'm damn happy to be a man. some however are unfortunate victims of "the luck of the draw" and i'm not even going to begin to imagine what they went through to draw the conclusion of being happier being thought of as a female. it all boils down to the individual really. it shouldn't be thought of as a defect that Ricky thinks he should've been called Stephanie, or Natalie thinks of herself as a Matthew. Really, it isn't a defect it's more or less asking the question "should i have been born this way?". i don't want to pigeonhole you, please attest this if i'm off-base, but you probably think of all people with an opposite gender identity as being freaks or being delusional(as you call it), and they should just sit in the wallows of being a "typical guy" or maybe a "typical girl" and maybe, someday get so depressed with it, that they kill themselves...

 

again i'm really not trying to jump to conclusions..

 

at the end of the day you can see it as you want too: delusions, genetic glitches, etc, but Ricky will still be happier as Stephanie, and Natalie will still be happier as Matthew. telling them they're crazy won't change it. that's the nature of being given a free will. David can be a male who has a pink car with his name legally changed to Myra and the only thing really stopping him is a couple thousand desenting opinions, and even they don't even succeed in stopping him.

 

it appears I've been ninja'd by some people..oh well, i'm not letting this go to waste.

and this isn't meant to be read in a hateful tone, more or less an informative/meaningful tone..

Edited September 17, 2011 by Guest (see edit history)

[Alyxx Thorne]

Yeah, I don't think either of us are trying to be offensive, we just have different views.

[Scorpia]

yea i just saw that post on the other page, and i was pretty much all over it :/ for some reason it's a subject i feel strongly about.

 

i did do my best to make it interesting as opposed to making it bland like some of my other debates...

[Bjossi]

You know, I think you just proved why you have such a low reputation.

 

I can understand if a post makes you angry but this is not a mature way to start a counter-response.

 

Reputation points are entirely meaningless any way, for the simple reason that people can award them for any possible reason or occasion their wild imagination can think up. The only reason you have this many reputation points is because you have built up a hype momentum where people are more prone to giving you reputation for the most pointless of posts exactly because of your high number of reputation visible in your profile box as well as your gargantuan post rate. Just look at your reputation history, you are getting rep for stating a song in a boring "what are you listening to thread" or random one-line agreements. If I had this luxury I would have passed 100 reputation by now.

 

The reputation system is fun for entertainment reasons but judging a person by it in any more detail than the minus sign would be short-sighted. Attack Michael's statements and arguments, not his reputation points on an internet forum. If you get angry or upset in any other way, walk away from the computer for some time and cool off. Make a sandwich or cup of tea, read a book, just something that gives you time to digest what you read earlier.

[Nagisa]

If I'm a freak or deluded then so be it! In fact, that's true in more ways than just gender.

 

So... what if in the future someone invents a fabricator. Not just that, but a computer powerful enough to figure out what to change in someone to change their physical gender. Someone who feels like me walks in there, changes their appearance, DNA, and everything else in one sitting?

 

That kind of means A=A except when B=B because if B=B then A=B.

 

lol that didn't make any sense but you kind of get my point I assume.

[Alyxx Thorne]

You know, I think you just proved why you have such a low reputation.

 

I can understand if a post makes you angry but this is not a mature way to start a counter-response.

 

Reputation points are entirely meaningless any way, for the simple reason that people can award them for any possible reason or occasion their wild imagination can think up. The only reason you have this many reputation points is because you have built up a hype momentum where people are more prone to giving you reputation for the most pointless of posts exactly because of your high number of reputation visible in your profile box as well as your gargantuan post rate. Just look at your reputation history, you are getting rep for stating a song in a boring "what are you listening to thread" or random one-line agreements. If I had this luxury I would have passed 100 reputation by now.

 

The reputation system is fun for entertainment reasons but judging a person by it in any more detail than the minus sign would be short-sighted. Attack Michael's statements and arguments, not his reputation points on an internet forum. If you get angry or upset in any other way, walk away from the computer for some time and cool off. Make a sandwich or cup of tea, read a book, just something that gives you time to digest what you read earlier.

You are correct of course, and I sincerely apologize for that remark.

[Koach]

i am but a boy, attracted to girls, but i have both sides in mind. its pretty handy when trying to understand what the hell's happening in someone's mind.

[Kirkreng]

I see you're back.

[Collective Foal]

By statistics, gays are a minority. Looking at this from a biological standpoint, it is a genetic glitch in which they produce less testosterone and enough oestrogen to make them female in personality, but their whole life becomes ruled by that pesky Y chromosome making them a male. It is sad that this happens to people who feel trapped In the wrong body, but they are not freaks or deluded, they are only different from you. This takes us into a discriminatory issue. This is what you are thinking:

 

RSu4hOLYrXk

[Alyxx Thorne]

I'm glad someone understands this from a biological standpoint. It's all about how your hormones affect your personality.

[ProHypster]

I would reply to Michael's posts (In an attempt to help) here but I'm afraid people will misunderstand.

[Nagisa]

I'm glad someone understands this from a biological standpoint. It's all about how your hormones affect your personality.

It's not just hormones. Parts of the brain develop differently.