Appearance on the Co-Optional Podcast

Found this in my sub box and was pleasantly surprised

Something to listen to for the next few hours

Ross is the next Game Dungeon Rise of The Triad and its 2013 remake?

It was pretty awesome and enjoyed it quite a bit

Years ago when you just quit machinima I hoped you would join polaris so you could appear on this podcast.

And you did

So thrilled. Haven't watch it yet but will soon

Years ago when you just quit machinima I hoped you would join polaris so you could appear on this podcast.

 

And you did

 

So thrilled. Haven't watch it yet but will soon

About the piracy disucussion - some experiences:

1) Ross's mentioned geographical location - I think this one is very big... I found this info on the web:

Just 20 countries or areas from a total of 250 accounted for a staggering three-quarters of total file-sharing activity. The top offenders – relative to population size – were Romania, Croatia, Ukraine, Greece, Poland, Italy, Armenia and Serbia.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2013/05/15/finally-some-objective-figures-on-games-piracy/#5995ab893b67

My country is not on this list, but it is (or least was?) is similar position. From my own experiences when I was a kid - I don't even remember if you could buy legal games somewhere... In the 90s and early 2000s (before mass unlimited internet was available) you could buy bootleg games in marketplaces and even some normal stores. Not even talking about the internet.

2) Financial situation (ties closely to geographical aspect). In many countries were piracy is very popular - people simply cannot afford to buy 40-70 dollar games, Its that simple. I remember saving up lunch money for a bootleg game (CD) you could get for like 5-10 dollars, my parents would never buy me a 50 dollar game (assuming you could find one for sale).

3) Internet selling - say whatever about steam, but damn it has increased the sales everywhere... Especially with summer/winter sales where you can get loads of awesome games for barely anything. This together with multiplayer games (more incentive to buy a game that has good MP) has increased sales a lot, I bet there is a lot less piracy than there was like 15 years ago.

A pirated game surely cannot be counted as a lost sale, some are, but most aren't because that person either can't afford it or just don't buy games.

Years ago when you just quit machinima I hoped you would join polaris so you could appear on this podcast.

 

And you did

 

So thrilled. Haven't watch it yet but will soon

The podcast isn't part of Polaris anymore but property of TotalBiscuit. So basically anyone can appear on it including wrestling stars^^

I'm not sure of what the rules were, at the time Ross left Machinima though.

Some people HAVE to pirate games because they're not available in their country. This hits us pretty hard in Germany, so many good games are banned or versions are sold that are cut and censored beyond recognition. You hear me complain a lot about this, but it just is such a big problem to me. Dead Island, FEAR, Red Faction,... Those are games I'd never get to play if it weren't for piracy. And they are lost sales, because I would be ready to buy them. And the only way I can buy these games legally is by importing them from another country, like the UK, and shipping can cost a lot!

The Fine Brothers discussion was interesting, I figured it was just a moral panic till you got into the details.

I like the "Piracy is ok after a few years" approach, particularly since publishers look upon old games as an annoyance they'd prefer to abandon and never support. There's enough good content out there now that no one anywhere should be desperate for a game in its first year anyway. If you're doing release month piracy I think it's more likely than not you're just plain stealing. Regional locks excepted.

I like the "Piracy is ok after a few years" approach, particularly since publishers look upon old games as an annoyance they'd prefer to abandon and never support. There's enough good content out there now that no one anywhere should be desperate for a game in its first year anyway. If you're doing release month piracy I think it's more likely than not you're just plain stealing. Regional locks excepted.

How about release day? XCOM 2 was torrentable in a fully functioning form less than an hour after it was released. (i am getting it now, simply because I want to play now, and will definitely buy it ASAP, so no lost sale)

I think piracy is fine depending on the situation. For example, SNES/N64 emulators and the like. Apparently, they re-released some of the older consoles(Atari and Sega Genesis or something like that) with games but it still applies to PS1/PS2, NES/SNES, N64, and whatever other ones I'm missing. Generally, you have to buy older consoles/games online because, AFAIK(and this applies to my general area, of course), they don't sell older consoles in stores anymore. Even then, online shopping is very sketchy considering, y'know, how easy it is to scam somebody off of EBAY or anything similar. That's ignoring how pricey online shopping can be, too. I think it's absolutely fair to pirate something if it's unreasonable to go out of your way to buy it. Shipping from another country is a complete different ordeal, though. That's simply preference and also that you're shipping from a foreign country. The most popular example I can think of right now is getting games shipped from Japan which, AFAIK, usually means you're getting their localized version.

That being said, for the sake of the argument, if the company itself doesn't make its products available, then who is left to really care? In the event that the company takes action, it's clearly not because they're currently selling the product because, well, they aren't(in my theoretical situation). That's one thing I've never understood. You might as well say "Piracy of an unobtainable object".

EDIT: Then there's availability, yeah. Lots of games don't make it to America.

Some people HAVE to pirate games because they're not available in their country. This hits us pretty hard in Germany, so many good games are banned or versions are sold that are cut and censored beyond recognition. You hear me complain a lot about this, but it just is such a big problem to me. Dead Island, FEAR, Red Faction,... Those are games I'd never get to play if it weren't for piracy. And they are lost sales, because I would be ready to buy them. And the only way I can buy these games legally is by importing them from another country, like the UK, and shipping can cost a lot!

I don't want to go into a deep discussion on the topic, but you certainly do not "HAVE" to pirate them. You'd be inclined to do it if the game wasn't being sold at all. But even then, you have the option to buy other games, of which there are many. However I understand the frustration of games being censored here.

I like the "Piracy is ok after a few years" approach, particularly since publishers look upon old games as an annoyance they'd prefer to abandon and never support. There's enough good content out there now that no one anywhere should be desperate for a game in its first year anyway. If you're doing release month piracy I think it's more likely than not you're just plain stealing. Regional locks excepted.

How about release day? XCOM 2 was torrentable in a fully functioning form less than an hour after it was released. (i am getting it now, simply because I want to play now, and will definitely buy it ASAP, so no lost sale)

Aren't the release dates just one day apart? And are you going to start a new campaign for that?

How about release day? XCOM 2 was torrentable in a fully functioning form less than an hour after it was released. (i am getting it now, simply because I want to play now, and will definitely buy it ASAP, so no lost sale)

Since I almost exclusively play bundled indie games and read self published works, I wouldn't care much if people stopped making standard commercial media. I support most artists directly and this doesn't involve me on any emotional level.

If you DO claim to care about that kind of thing, torrenting something brand new is participating in theft. That's how bit torrent works. I'll take your word for it you'll give them your money, and further that you aren't going to wait for a sale that you wouldn't have otherwise waited for. But you've still passed plenty of data along to genuine thieves. If I had a horse in this race I'd consider you culpable on some level. I don't though, so I only disagree with you semantically.

If I'm going to judge you over anything it's your impatience. Download "you have to win the game" or read Homestuck or something. It's freaking awesome.

I don't want to go into a deep discussion on the topic, but you certainly do not "HAVE" to pirate them. You'd be inclined to do it if the game wasn't being sold at all. But even then, you have the option to buy other games, of which there are many. However I understand the frustration of games being censored here.

But that's the point, they're not being sold here! There is literally no other way of getting these games! It's awful...

I don't want to go into a deep discussion on the topic, but you certainly do not "HAVE" to pirate them. You'd be inclined to do it if the game wasn't being sold at all. But even then, you have the option to buy other games, of which there are many. However I understand the frustration of games being censored here.

But that's the point, they're not being sold here! There is literally no other way of getting these games! It's awful...

Okay, I was looking at other versions of the games, though you actually can get Fear on Amazon through a trilogy pack. I would still recommend imports, as long as it's total price is reasonable.

If all else fails, and you want to play the game so badly, sure I won't judge (not that it would atter)

It's not that common in Germany anymore though.

Aren't the release dates just one day apart? And are you going to start a new campaign for that?

What are you talking about with the release dates? I'm talking about when it first unlocked on Steam, which is the exact same moment across the globe, local time does not matter. Less than an hour after it unlocked there was a torrent for the Digital Deluxe edition out for use, already cracked.

What do you mean a "campaign"? Honestly, I was expecting it to take about a week before anybody cracked it. It's from a lesser known cracker, so he probly doesn't do what the rest of the scene does, and wait a week or two for the initial sales to die down. (the scene's typical of a week or two is much better IMO, both for devs, and for people in general) I honestly wouldn't be surprised or upset if XCOM 2 devs were upset about it being cracked and released an hour after unlock, but the least I can do is tell them I WILL be buying this ASAP.

If you DO claim to care about that kind of thing, torrenting something brand new is participating in theft. That's how bit torrent works.

Actually, BitTorrent works by sending chunks of files across a peer-to-peer connection, and has nothing at all to do with piracy. (it actually uses the internet the way it was originally intended to be used, except on a much larger scale) You're saying what the MPAA and RIAA want you to, which aids them in shutting down legitimate file transferring technology, just because some people misuse it.

I'll take your word for it you'll give them your money, and further that you aren't going to wait for a sale that you wouldn't have otherwise waited for. But you've still passed plenty of data along to genuine thieves. If I had a horse in this race I'd consider you culpable on some level. I don't though, so I only disagree with you semantically.

 

If I'm going to judge you over anything it's your impatience. Download "you have to win the game" or read Homestuck or something. It's freaking awesome.

I know I'm impatient... Mainly because I love the XCOM franchise, and this game fixes almost every problem I had with Enemy Unknown/Enemy Within... It's really hard for someone who loves the game to wait to purchase it, especially if it's possible to obtain it immediately and still purchase it later.

As far as passing the data on to thieves, it's already happening... Nothing I do will ever change that, and no way to know how many of those downloading it are doing as I am, or even downloading it because it might work better than their legitimate copy. (I do remember several times over the years where the crackers fixed major issues with the games before the devs, and even legit customers were grabbing the torrent to play the fixed game)

Some people HAVE to pirate games because they're not available in their country. This hits us pretty hard in Germany, so many good games are banned or versions are sold that are cut and censored beyond recognition. You hear me complain a lot about this, but it just is such a big problem to me. Dead Island, FEAR, Red Faction,... Those are games I'd never get to play if it weren't for piracy. And they are lost sales, because I would be ready to buy them. And the only way I can buy these games legally is by importing them from another country, like the UK, and shipping can cost a lot!

We get this a fair bit in Australia (although not nearly as severe as Germany of course) so I understand your pain.

Years ago when you just quit machinima I hoped you would join polaris so you could appear on this podcast.

 

And you did

 

So thrilled. Haven't watch it yet but will soon

 

The podcast isn't part of Polaris anymore but property of TotalBiscuit. So basically anyone can appear on it including wrestling stars^^

I'm not sure of what the rules were, at the time Ross left Machinima though.

Indeed. and Felicia Day appeared on TGS version so even then there was a chance for Ross to be on the podcast without being part of tgs/polaris thing. My thought process was that it would be more likely for Ross to be on it if he was part of the MCN.

anyhow.

It was very enjoyable podcast Ross. I hope you enjoyed yourself as well.

I like the "Piracy is ok after a few years" approach, particularly since publishers look upon old games as an annoyance they'd prefer to abandon and never support. There's enough good content out there now that no one anywhere should be desperate for a game in its first year anyway. If you're doing release month piracy I think it's more likely than not you're just plain stealing. Regional locks excepted.

How about release day? XCOM 2 was torrentable in a fully functioning form less than an hour after it was released. (i am getting it now, simply because I want to play now, and will definitely buy it ASAP, so no lost sale)